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Deleting.co.uk RIP

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Nominet are even objecting to the lists of domain names and I can't update those lists without a DAC.

Believe me I have and I am still seeking legal advice on this.

I have even looked in to cases like the William Hill database High Court case:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2005/863.html

http://www.out-law.com/page-5922

Also i'm not the one with millions of pounds in the isle of man :)

I haven't read the whole contract but if they're hassling you about the lists then the silly arses should read their own contract with you, it's a shame you don't have the money, because right now you can set it up again just don't show data gleamed from whois, that's all.

Well think about it and at least follow this all up with Nominet directly (unlike drs you can) because I honestly can't see them having a problem when not showing whois data as opposed to the manner you have been.

Unless it's in another part of the contract, as far as I'm concerned Nominet should have sent a warning shot firstly, other than that they're peeing in the wind and aint got a leg to stand on. Let's face it, they only suspended you, so they aint too sure themselves.

And I'm pretty confident the regular Nominet on here will state the same - if allowed. Keep talking to them, comply with the legal bit, that's ended now, now to get unsuspended and find a way of showing the lists as detailed in 5.2 as long as you don't break any rules in 5.3.

Good luck with it, Nominet are looking quite stupid at the moment. Another one for theregister along with the domcollect lot.

Cheers
Lee
 
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When exactly did they start feeling your collar over this Andrew? Was it before, during or after the PAB election?
Would it have effected your position in that regard, therefore undermining the whole election process which took place then?
Given that Nominet appear to have turned a blind eye for so long, were you forced to choose between 'deleting co uk' or the PAB position?
 
When exactly did they start feeling your collar over this Andrew? Was it before, during or after the PAB election?Would it have effected your position in that regard, therefore undermining the whole election process which took place then?

I was elected to the PAB on the 19th March 2007:
http://www.nic.uk/policy/pab/election/

The "general complaint" was received by Nominet in April 2007. They have not shown me the complaint (confidential) however they said they have to follow up every complaint.

After the last PAB meeting I asked if I could share some dropcatching data from deleting.co.uk with the PAB. Because of this executive paper: http://www.nic.uk/digitalAssets/18138_Domaining_May_07.pdf My aim was to show dropcatching is not that much of a problem. This is when I first heard about the complaint via email.

I got the "undertaking" letter on Monday when I went to see them in Oxford about it. I have until the 29th May to sign it however I have already agreed to shut down deleting.co.uk and they have cut my DAC off anyway.

Given that Nominet appear to have turned a blind eye for so long, were you forced to choose between 'deleting co uk' or the PAB position?

No. But i'm in a difficult position now.
 
Breaking conditions

Andrew have they publicly said 'Nominet have assured me they treat EVERY member the same - so any member found to be breaking Nominet terms and conditions will face the same consequences.'

Alas......... the DRS they do not intervene they remain impartial
 
Well three hours to go, do you think we can get answers from Nominet today? I'll get an email written in the next couple of hours and see if we can't get deleting up and running again quick smart once we pull their contract apart it shouldn't take too long. You couldn't have deleted all the names though, they didn't even terminate your contract, there was no need to.

Time to get answers and quickly. I'll chuck in a complaint as well about the way they handled the other complaint, I trust you will all do the same.
 
I just sent this into [email protected]

Dear Sir / Madam,

Last night I discovered you have pulled the plug on deleting.co.uk. The result of this will be vast, domain name registrations will drop meaning less revenue for Nominet, less income via transfer of domains, less income for registrars and yes you're putting out the entire domainer industry overnight, I believe you've over reacted in this instance and would ask you to rethink.

I've read the contract and your legal team have been ill advised to request that a tag holder delete their lists, the clauses that appear to have been broken were 5.3 which is illegally capturing whois information and reshowing to the public, in this instance all you had to do was ask for the information to be removed so the service could continue.

I am now willing, as are a few others to set up a new deleting service as obviously we cannot do without this website, you have literally killed one half of my business operations overnight and I will suffer severly, so in common with clause 5.2 and as your legal team have researched this matter in its entirety already please could you tell me if I will be breaking the rules if I become a member and do exactly the same as deleting only without showing who caught what and showing tag holder name and showing domains dropping on the day without showing a countdown or specific date information.

Would that be acceptable? i.e. not showing any whois information at all and not regurgitated to the public at large. As you've researched this in full already this should be an easy answer. Furthermore I wish to complain about how poorly you have treated a member, you fired no warning shot, you sent no initial email, you went straight in for the kill which makes many of us believe you don't value the domainer community, nor accept it. Fair enough, react to a complaint but how you have do so has been wrong.

You and I both know which rules were broken, deleting is an acceptable service bar the showing of whois information which with a little foresight shouldn't have been used in that manner but it did take a complaint for you to do anything about a service that you've long known about so even in that respect your reaction has been quite over the top.

You should be careful in future, you just told a tag holder to delete all information pertaining to the whois database when you had no right to do so under the contract, it was a suspension, not a termination. His company really should now sue you for loss of earnings.

I look forward to hearing from you on the above matters, I realise you can't discuss individual cases but as I will be setting up deleting two and others deleting three, four and five, we would appreciate knowing what exactly was wrong with the deleting service over and above the showing of dates and tag holder name. essentially whois info being redistributed. As according to the contract with Nominet, holding lists and making available to the end user is perfectly within rights.

I would also urge you, before Nominet loses any more income due to this decision, to reinstate the tag holder and dac access with immediate effect as they have complied with you wishes - rather foolishly I might add though that comment is more aimed at your legal team - and also write to the tag holder stating that the deleting service is fine if they simply do not show the 92 or 99 countdown and the tag holder that catches domains.

I trust you will do this with immediate effect as there are no reasons why you cannot, and in doing so your income and the interest in your company can begin to rise again and as a community we can put this all behind us and learn from this episode, failure to do so will create an awkward atmosphere and be bad for both our business interests.

Please reply at your earliest convenience.

Yous Sincerely
Lee Owen
 
Really sorry to see this closed down - many thanks for all the hard work that went into it. Very surprised Nominet has closed the entire service and not worked with you to provide a slimmed down version which fits their terms and conditions.
 
Wouldn't be suprised if this move was initiated by a UK catcher to help reduce the competition, no doubt after they ripped a copy of the deleting database for their own use.

Guess we'll neven know who initiated the complaint.
 
Wouldn't be suprised if this move was initiated by a UK catcher to help reduce the competition, no doubt after they ripped a copy of the deleting database for their own use.

Guess we'll neven know who initiated the complaint.

Was thinking similar... however the PAB angle / timing makes things interesting.

I hope Nominet take similar action against sites that display whois info such as :

http://www.aboutus.org/NomiNet.org.uk the spamming gits

etc.
 
Would there be anything to stop someone producing this list and putting it on their ftp server daily and accidentally posting the username and password on here?
 
Andrew have they publicly said 'Nominet have assured me they treat EVERY member the same - so any member found to be breaking Nominet terms and conditions will face the same consequences.'

Alas......... the DRS they do not intervene they remain impartial


Not that I know of however they said it in the letter they gave to me.
 
Damn - sorry to hear about the bad luck Andrew - You provided a great service, Cheers :)
 
I just sent this into [email protected]

Lee,

Even though i'm in a difficult position legally and with the PAB (possible conflict of interest) ......

Thank you for sending that to Nominet and I hope they reply to you with an acceptable answer.

Since Web 2.0 etc I think copyright laws in this country are outdated and i'm not the only one. Read this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/26/gowers_music_copyright/

"I think that the voice of consumers has been heard to a greater extent," he said. "I think that there is a recognition that laws have become outdated or excessively inflexible. In the light of the rapid pace of economic change, globalisation, digitisation [they] need to be amended. In the world of copyright frankly quite a few things that are common practice are treated on the statute book as illegal and that cannot be a good law."

Anyway if Nominet do back down I will put the site back up :)

Andrew
 
If there's not a satisfactory resolution to this... and I'm sure a compromise could be reached, then the next domainchannel meet could be a 'tense' affair!

S
 
Well done Lee - keep fighting mate - I am also writting my own letter and have just called nominet to complain about this.
 
There getting bombarded with complaints at the moment they have just told me.

I am writing an email to send them the address they told me to send it to was [email protected] if anyone else is sending a complaint.
 
Looks like everyone is on your side, i wish you the best of luck in this issue, and will monitor the thread, so keep us posted :)
 
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