Corona please read very important

[Murray]

Google scholar will be of help with scientific figures

I was hoping for just monthly figures of deaths in total, found it here

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...guresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

For the UK

2020
Jan 56,706
Feb 43,653

2019
Jan 53,910
Feb 45,796
March 43,946
April 44,123

2018
Jan 64,154
Feb 49,177
March 51,229
April 46,469

2017
Jan 57,368
Feb 47,766
March 48,664
April 39,101

2016
Jan 47,457
Feb 46,021
March 48,665
April 46,856

So from those figures, if March 2020 is anywhere between 45-50k that seems usual and April 40-45k seems usual

 

[BREWSTERS]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/nyregion/alex-jones-coronavirus-cure.html
Alex Jones found the cure and the bloody New World Order have stopped him selling it. Typical NWO, eh?
Although to be fair his legal defence over the Sandy Hook lies that caused so much suffering was that his show was entertainment and never intended to be factual. Not sure if he explained that to his followers?

Alex Jones. Really? Is this 2015?

I'm not saying anyone in this thread is a covert Russian agent trying to destabilise the country, I'm just implying it by trying to discredit anything that says otherwise, folks just need do their own 'research', any old website will do if they agree with me. I'm not a performing monkey so don't ask me to provide evidence, instead I'll just demand someone else provides proof it's not true. No? Didn't think so. Wake up, sheeple.

/s

Ooh I wonder who you're having a dig at? Well, I guess when that person mentioned not being a dancing monkey, he was fed up with his questions not being answered despite replying to EVERY QUESTION PUT TO HIM. Go back and look if you doubt it. While you're at it...look up the definition of 'demand'. While on that subject, "demand someone else provides proof it's not true"...not true? That's difficult to do...whereas proving something is true should be easy...if it is. Wouldn't you agree? Well if the threat of CV is true, it should be simple to prove. That's all I ask.

Seriously, the conspiracy theories might be interesting to think about but right now it only takes one idiot to decide it's all bullshit and ignore public health advice for potentially a lot of folks to end up dead. So stop spreading them.

BTW 'They don't want you to know!' is exactly the same psychological trick as all those spam ads - 'mum finds weird trick - doctors hate her!' etc. It appeals to people who feel powerless, it's very tempting to be in on a secret. Those ads are still running because they are very effective at scamming folks with limited critical thinking skills. As is Alex Jones.

Alex Jones again? Maybe use this quarantine to catch up with the last few years eh?

'Conspiracy theories'. The laziest way of avoiding challenging your own beliefs. Does it ever occur to you, that your beliefs all stem from the same source? That always tally with the government? Is that because you think the government whoever that may be, always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? As would be needed in court.

--------------------------

Does anyone have any evidence of a pandemic, or even the start of one in this country?

Anyone know any health professionals who are experiencing the sort of things that are being put forward out of Spain and Italy?

Genuine requests.

 

[bonusmedia]

I understand what you mean and agree with it to an extent, but who is it up to to decide what's a conspiracy theory and what's not

I think we should all be following government guidelines, but it's ok to question them, look at stats, look what other countries are doing, speculate on what's best

As long as you aren't calling for action saying "this is all bulls***! go out and riot and take the streets back!" then it's whatever

Personally I think because I'm optimistic about how this will all end I'm leaning towards the "it's not quite as bad as first feared" type news, but time will tell

https://www.bbc.co.uk/ideas/videos/three-ways-to-spot-a-conspiracy-theory/p07j9sjk

I agree it's absolutely ok to question things if you're approaching them from an intellectually honest position, genuine curiosity, wanting to find out more, wanting more evidence etc.
However, if you've already decided that there's an evil conspiracy trying to create a New World Order and you're only looking for ways to discredit experts or the media, that's not intellectually honest.

Approaching evidence with an open mind, considering the credibillity, reliability of source etc = good
Reaching a conclusion and then looking for any old shite that might support it = bad

Obviously it's impossible to be completely unbiased or unprejudiced, but trying goes a long way.

Spreading confusion and distrust may not be as bad as directly telling people to ignore public health advice but it can have the same impact. It's a natural human instinct to look at how other people are reacting to gauge your own reaction, so if folks see that a lot of people doubt the narrative, it is easier for them to doubt it too. Again, it only takes one idiot to be tipped over the edge, e.g. Thomas Mair.

Good to be optimistic, hopefully it all turns out better than expected. Also always good to keep spirits up etc. I'm not about doom and gloom for the sake of it, but in my view there has been a big issue with normalcy bias and it's important that folks understand the scale of the problem. Two weeks ago very few people did, this has all happened very quickly. Today the Deputy CMO said they have evidence that people are now taking the measures more seriously, so that's reason to be hopeful.

There is a slight danger that we do all the right things, minimize the deaths and then people complain it was a lot of fuss over nothing, but that's far better than the alternative.

I think the working number for mortality rate was 1% for a while, the CMO suggested he was hoping for 0.6%.
That pathologist in the Spectator was suggesting 0.5% I think? That would still be 5x deadlier than flu.
I'm not sure if those numbers are assuming that we're able to manage it sufficiently to avoid overwhelming the health service. There is much more reason to hope for that now, but only because of the incredible efforts of the professionals to massively increase capacity, open field hospitals, manufacture ventilators etc.

 

[bonusmedia]

Alex Jones. Really? Is this 2015?



Ooh I wonder who you're having a dig at? Well, I guess when that person mentioned not being a dancing monkey, he was fed up with his questions not being answered despite replying to EVERY QUESTION PUT TO HIM. Go back and look if you doubt it. While you're at it...look up the definition of 'demand'. While on that subject, "demand someone else provides proof it's not true"...not true? That's difficult to do...whereas proving something is true should be easy...if it is. Wouldn't you agree? Well if the threat of CV is true, it should be simple to prove. That's all I ask.



Alex Jones again? Maybe use this quarantine to catch up with the last few years eh?

'Conspiracy theories'. The laziest way of avoiding challenging your own beliefs. Does it ever occur to you, that your beliefs all stem from the same source? That always tally with the government? Is that because you think the government whoever that may be, always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? As would be needed in court.

--------------------------

Does anyone have any evidence of a pandemic, or even the start of one in this country?

Anyone know any health professionals who are experiencing the sort of things that are being put forward out of Spain and Italy?

Genuine requests.

So just to check, have you gone off Alex Jones now? That's great news.
Have you also stopped believing Sandy Hook was a hoax and Jo Cox was a hoax?

 

[bonusmedia]

Is the Alex Jones website still open? Are they still playing video's? All Youtube is doing is sending people to his site to see them. Then when they get there, these videos don't have a comments section below with others pointing out why these clips are wrong. It just seems that if people don't factually tackle these clips, people will put 2 and 2 together and come up with a wrong answer.

I wasn't going to watch that clip until @BREWSTERS said that it had been deleted once already, made it sound interesting.

Most people are open minded and are capable of making good decisions based on both sides of the argument. If anyone thinks that they aren't, this virus is the least you should be worrying about.

He was banned from Youtube and most other platforms, he still has his website and he's still hawking shit to gullible folks.

 

[bonusmedia]

Does anyone have any evidence of a pandemic, or even the start of one in this country?

Anyone know any health professionals who are experiencing the sort of things that are being put forward out of Spain and Italy?

Genuine requests.

Nope, no-one has any evidence of a pandemic, we just thought we'd get the army to build the largest hospital the country has ever seen for a bit of a laugh. Or are you denying that exists too?

I'm 99% certain Spain exists, if not they're very good at covering it up

 

[BREWSTERS]

So just to check, have you gone off Alex Jones now? That's great news.
Have you also stopped believing Sandy Hook was a hoax and Jo Cox was a hoax?

You're not so bad at fake news yourself are you...sounds like you've watch more of Alex Jones than I ever have! Can't stand the man.

As for the other two things - yes.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Nope, no-one has any evidence of a pandemic, we just thought we'd get the army to build the largest hospital the country has ever seen for a bit of a laugh. Or are you denying that exists too?

I'm 99% certain Spain exists, if not they're very good at covering it up

Response doesn't prove cause.

I could build a cattle shed...doesn't prove I've got any cows. Lets see how that hospital fills up over the weeks shall we? And chat again then. Let's see if they get any more than the empty ones in Germany where their media said they had 1000 patients.

 

[webber]

This thread has turned completely dumb

 

[Edwin]

Door #1: every country in the world decided to simultaneously crash their economies over a non-existent pandemic. Ground flights worldwide. Shutter all non-essential businesses. Bankrupt airlines. Destroy the hospitality industry. Sever centuries of trading routes. All because of "X the unknown", a secret only known to a few in a shadowy inner circle but which magically you're also privy to.

Door #2: every country in the world is desperately fighting a global pandemic the best way they can. (Nobody has first-hand experience of fighting the previous one - being 2 in 1918 doesn't count.) Some are doing reasonably well at it. Some are making a total hash of things (we're in the latter camp because of slow reactions, and because of woeful systematic defunding of the NHS). Because it's so overwhelming and so scary, conspiracy theories find fertile ground to take root.

Plus: All governments lie, to a certain extend. Some lie more than most. No Government has ever been happy to confess its shortcomings. So things get downplayed and spun and deflected. This plays right back into the conspiracy theory feedback loop. But incompetence is not a conspiracy - it's incompetence. Being out of one's depth isn't a conspiracy, it's being out of one's depth. etc.

At a time when NHS front-line staff are literally dying in a heroic attempt to fight the global pandemic (you know, Door #2...) on behalf of all of our us, it's remarkably distasteful to see people pushing with all their strength 24/7 against a rock, convinced that if they push just hard enough and in just the right place, it will turn out to have been Door #1 all along.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Door #1: every country in the world decided to simultaneously crash their economies over a non-existent pandemic. Ground flights worldwide. Shutter all non-essential businesses. Bankrupt airlines. Destroy the hospitality industry. Sever centuries of trading routes. All because of "X the unknown", a secret only known to a few in a shadowy inner circle but which magically you're also privy to.

Door #2: every country in the world is desperately fighting a global pandemic the best way they can. (Nobody has first-hand experience of fighting the previous one - being 2 in 1918 doesn't count.) Some are doing reasonably well at it. Some are making a total hash of things (we're in the latter camp because of slow reactions, and because of woeful systematic defunding of the NHS). Because it's so overwhelming and so scary, conspiracy theories find fertile ground to take root.

Plus: All governments lie, to a certain extend. Some lie more than most. No Government has ever been happy to confess its shortcomings. So things get downplayed and spun and deflected. This plays right back into the conspiracy theory feedback loop. But incompetence is not a conspiracy - it's incompetence. Being out of one's depth isn't a conspiracy, it's being out of one's depth. etc.

At a time when NHS front-line staff are literally dying in a heroic attempt to fight the global pandemic (you know, Door #2...) on behalf of all of our us, it's remarkably distasteful to see people pushing with all their strength 24/7 against a rock, convinced that if they push just hard enough and in just the right place, it will turn out to have been Door #1 all along.

When you say "every country in the world decided to simultaneously crash their economies over a non-existent pandemic" - it's not is it? It's a tiny number of people who decided to do it. The one's who wield the power. People who are proven to be untrustworthy. And they did so largely on the computer modelling of Prof Neil Ferguson who claimed 500k people could die in the UK...has since downgraded it to 'nearly 20k' and more recently to '7k'. If those in power believed his 500k figure...why are they not believing his revised figures?

"every country in the world is desperately fighting a global pandemic" - are they? Seems like in Germany there is no crisis...nor at UK hospitals. No spike in hospital admissions or weekly deaths. Can you tell us what test there is that seperates covid-19 from other coronaviruses of which there are many...and can indicate the viral-load?

---------------------------

Ask yourself, if you wanted to bring about a one world government...can you think of any better way than bringing about Door #1?

 

[Lovekraft]

I think this video is a good watch, it is an intelligent analysis of David Icke's interview on corona virus (and as you can imagine it is of course a big conspiracy according to him).

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[bonusmedia]

As for the other two things - yes.

I didn't know that. So you can change your mind and admit you were wrong. I respect that a lot, I won't bring it up again.
If you don't mind I'm really curious what made you change your mind?

Response doesn't prove cause.

I could build a cattle shed...doesn't prove I've got any cows. Lets see how that hospital fills up over the weeks shall we? And chat again then. Let's see if they get any more than the empty ones in Germany where their media said they had 1000 patients.

No it isn't proof, I was being sarky, but you did ask a daft question.
If the hospitals stay empty I will be absolutely chuffed to bits, let's agree to wait and see.

 

[Siusaidh]

Totally agree with Edwin: it's Door #2. And yes, as a nurse, I find some of the comments and insinuations on this thread remarkably distasteful (not to say, pathetic).

THERE - IS - NO - CONSPIRACY.

This is a terrible pandemic.

I dread what might happen in Africa when it takes hold there. Here in the UK we need solidarity with everyone who is trying to help those with the virus. Stupid comments implying this crisis is fake just subvert the solidarity we owe it to others to uphold.

If all this is "normal" and made up, why not just go out and abandon social distancing? The internet can be great, but it also attracts idiotic fantasists and loonies: FACT.

Meanwhile, I suggest we all listen to the healthcare specialists on the frontline, rationally and decently doing their best. Listen to the dominant comments of people actually there, experiencing it all. WE are best placed to compare what's happening to all the years in the past we have worked on the wards.

What's happening is not fake. It's actually happening. We need the help of sane and decent people. We need practical help and SUPPORT of the community. Edwin's DOOR #1 is perfectly pitched. It shows how ridiculous and pathetic it is to suggest that it's all a big scare and a conspiracy, invented for ulterior ends.

People who assert DOOR #1 are making a mockery of the reality that trained healthcare specialists are living through. It's a slap in the face and an affront. Sure, nobodies on the internet have a right to their opinions. Don't expect me to respect, or not despise, them.

Some of those who champion conspiracy theories need help, because their paranoia may sadly be a mental health issue, and I suppose that merits compassion. What it doesn't merit is credibility. We are in a worldwide emergency. A practical emergency. The grown up thing is to ignore internet froth and ask yourself: how can I support the government and the healthcare staff and the many other essential workers, to try to reduce the deaths from this virus, and to help the vulnerable, and to show solidarity?

All I urge is practicality and decency and support. This is my final comment here, because I come here out of interest in domains. I'm out.

 

[diablo]

As for Germany, nobody is saying ALL hospitals are currently overwhelmed. The same is true for the UK. Most of those testing positive do not need hospital treatment.

Also important to note that Germany has four times as many ICU beds as the UK per head of population. As a country, it has the capacity to cope much better. It is even taking patients from France and Italy to ease their burden.

Is there the potential for hospitals to be overwhelmed? Yes, hence the opening of new hospitals in preparation. If they are never needed, brilliant. If they are, they are there.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I didn't know that. So you can change your mind and admit you were wrong. I respect that a lot, I won't bring it up again.
If you don't mind I'm really curious what made you change your mind?

Sorry my mistake...answer to the other two is still no (until anyone can explain why an actor played the part of a father of one of the children, AND an FBI guy walking around the scene on the day carrying weapons. And he wasn't FBI)

No it isn't proof, I was being sarky, but you did ask a daft question.
If the hospitals stay empty I will be absolutely chuffed to bits, let's agree to wait and see.

Yes, we will see sooner or later I suppose.

 

[bonusmedia]

Totally agree with Edwin: it's Door #2. And yes, as a nurse, I find some of the comments and insinuations on this thread remarkably distasteful (not to say, pathetic).

THERE - IS - NO - CONSPIRACY.

This is a terrible pandemic.

I dread what might happen in Africa when it takes hold there. Here in the UK we need solidarity with everyone who is trying to help those with the virus. Stupid comments implying this crisis is fake just subvert the solidarity we owe it to others to uphold.

If all this is "normal" and made up, why not just go out and abandon social distancing? The internet can be great, but it also attracts idiotic fantasists and loonies: FACT.

Meanwhile, I suggest we all listen to the healthcare specialists on the frontline, rationally and decently doing their best. Listen to the dominant comments of people actually there, experiencing it all. WE are best placed to compare what's happening to all the years in the past we have worked on the wards.

What's happening is not fake. It's actually happening. We need the help of sane and decent people. We need practical help and SUPPORT of the community. Edwin's DOOR #1 is perfectly pitched. It shows how ridiculous and pathetic it is to suggest that it's all a big scare and a conspiracy, invented for ulterior ends.

People who assert DOOR #1 are making a mockery of the reality that trained healthcare specialists are living through. It's a slap in the face and an affront. Sure, nobodies on the internet have a right to their opinions. Don't expect me to respect, or not despise, them.

Some of those who champion conspiracy theories need help, because their paranoia may sadly be a mental health issue, and I suppose that merits compassion. What it doesn't merit is credibility. We are in a worldwide emergency. A practical emergency. The grown up thing is to ignore internet froth and ask yourself: how can I support the government and the healthcare staff and the many other essential workers, to try to reduce the deaths from this virus, and to help the vulnerable, and to show solidarity?

All I urge is practicality and decency and support. This is my final comment here, because I come here out of interest in domains. I'm out.

Thanks for your service.
I share your frustration, I think/hope it's really a tiny minority, it just gets amplified online.

There are a lot of people here who don't post any more or keep it strictly business etc.
TBH I have resolved to stop posting a few times and it might be time to take another break.

But just to say, I have appreciated reading your posts over the last however long it's been.

Very best wishes.

 

[bonusmedia]

@Admin

Hope you're safe and well. Sure you've got better things to worry about and this is your forum and your rules.
No-one wants to spend their time breaking up playground squabbles.
But this is important, and letting people spread conspiracy theories about a pandemic is really not doing anyone any favours. With respect, tolerating this sort of stuff is why I stopped supporting the forum.

How about a ban on conspiracy theories?

 

[Admin]

@BREWSTERS - Please stop sharing your conspiracy theories here.

 

[Murray]

People who assert DOOR #1 are making a mockery of the reality that trained healthcare specialists are living through. It's a slap in the face and an affront. Sure, nobodies on the internet have a right to their opinions. Don't expect me to respect, or not despise, them

There's a quote, not sure from who "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste"

Will some troubling laws be passed because of the pandemic that are never rescinded? likely yes; the same as there are some troubling anti-terrorism laws that could be open to abuse that came from the early 2000s

Will some wealthy people benefit? yes very likely, monetarily and getting a bigger slice of the pie in certain industries

I can understand why conspiracy theories arise because of the above, so to say "All because of "X the unknown", a secret only known to a few in a shadowy inner circle but which magically you're also privy" is silly and seems disingenuous

With all that being said though, as you say there are too many people working in healthcare who would come out and say everything seems normal if things were normal

If people want to speculate it was man made or released on purpose that door is open but to deny it's happening and is a problem that needs some type of reaction isn't rational