Corona please read very important

[diablo]

It has emerged today that the 80% guarantee for wages (where the Government will pay up to £2,500/month for furloughed workers) is something the Government "hope" to have in operation by the end of April.

In other words, it's largely a PR stunt. Sure, the money will probably come... eventually (like the much-trailed testing kits). But many firms won't be willing or able to hold out that long. Still, the Government got their positive headlines and persuaded people they were doing something.

And still nothing (of importance) for the self-employed.

Coronavirus will be used as an excuse to forgive government / public sector failings for years to come.

 

[Hay]

Whilst not the most exciting bit of news... Companies house have extended every companies deadline for filing accounts by an additional 3 months which is 1 less thing to be stressed about.

 

[Lovekraft]

And still nothing (of importance) for the self-employed.

Coronavirus will be used as an excuse to forgive government / public sector failings for years to come.

There's a huge amount of pressure on the government to offer a more realistic financial support package for the self employed / freelancers and from what I've seen being reported an update about that will come very soon. I'm not sure if everyone will be eligible, because technically a lot of us can work from home but then business isn't exactly rolling in just now and will no doubt get a lot worse for many of us. What they proposed on Friday was a complete insult.

 

[Edwin]

Whilst not the most exciting bit of news... Companies house have extended every companies deadline for filing accounts by an additional 3 months which is 1 less thing to be stressed about.

That's very welcome to know. Thanks for sharing.

 

[LCHappy]

How nice would this be if true? Oxford Study says over half of UK already been infected with mild symptoms so low they never / haven't noticed.

https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

 

[BREWSTERS]

Great news, it's no longer a HCID, so what should we do now, Brewsters?

Ignore the lockdown and Worldwide health warnings? Ignore the exponential growth in cases/death stats crippling various healthcare systems? Ignore the lessons from other countries and let people do as they please because it's political collusion by Governments across the World? After all, FDR also said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself".

Also, you might want to look up 'https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-vaccinations-depopulation/', and how conspiracy theories are sprung from selective quotes...

"In other words, Gates is not interested in using vaccines to reduce the population by using them as an agent of death or a tool to sterilize unsuspecting masses. Rather, Gates is interested in keeping more children alive in order to reduce the need for parents to have more children, thus limiting the overall population growth rate."

First of all, I'd like to state that I'm complying with all the measures, so far. Today I was supposed to set off on a 640 mile round trip to pick up a new motorbike that I was excited to be doing. Cancelled it after last nights PM statement. I never panic shopped for anything...despise any fool that did. Ok? I'm not putting anyone in harms way, and support everything the people who work for the NHS are doing. So that's out the way.

Now, I like numbers, and to quote Rick Schwartz, "numbers don't lie". So when one set of numbers doesn't tally to another set, dig down to find out why. Compare Italy with Germany. It's got nothing to do with population age, or air quality, or number of smokers etc - it's all down to what numbers are being compared. And what those numbers represent.

So lets look at figure for the UK.

66.44m population
c. 90k people tested
c. 8k people positive
c. 422 people died

So we're either looking at 5.275% die. Or 0.469% die. Or maybe 0.000635% die.

The only number that has any real meaning is the last one. As the other two rely on totally random factors.

The number 422 - during the same period that this number has built up, 22500 people over the age of 70 have died in the UK. That includes people who previously had a clean bill of health. We know that CV is far more deadly to those with pre-existing conditions...2.7 on average.

Also, the 90k people who have been tested...were only tested because they were showing symptoms. In other words, they had flu like symptoms. I wonder how many of those have gone on to die, but no one gives a monkeys because it wasn't CV. I'll bet any of you it's a sight more than 422.

Come on....Snopes? I didn't realise you were so far behind the curve. I'm embarrassed. Snopes...haha!

So, when a disease gets downgraded...why do the measures get ramped up beyond anything any of us have witnessed? Was this always meant to be the case?

 

[keys]

Companies house have extended every companies deadline for filing accounts by an additional 3 months

Companies House has changed its policy to automatically allow for a two-month extension and then another month after that if companies can demonstrate extreme circumstances.

https://www.accountancydaily.co/covid-19-companies-house-extends-accounts-filing-deadline

 

[Murray]

There's an interesting psychology revolving around corona

I feel like (nearly) everyone is concerned by it, taking it seriously and precautions

But as soon as you personally say "I've had some flu like symptoms, I think I might have it" everyone says "oh don't be so stupid, of course you don't have it, stop worrying, it's probably a cold"

So it's a super serious thing.. but no one you know personally could possibly have it

 

[keys]

stop worrying, it's probably a cold

That is most likely the case, and a rational view alongside stringent precautions. Worry causes stress to our immune systems, not good with a cold or CV.

The experience of CV is unpleasant or worse, from what we can see. The scary aspect is a week or more without symptoms, and being contagious during that time.

Fear of the unknown. There is much we have yet to learn about CV, the invisible enemy. It was easy to be complacent when the problem was in another continent. Now it is among us and we face many weeks or months of isolation and bad news as the reality plays out.

 

[Murray]

The experience of CV is unpleasant or worse, from what we can see. The scary aspect is a week or more without symptoms, and being contagious during that time.

I've read anywhere between 50-75% can have it and never show any symptoms

 

[dee]

Smoking, really bad eating habits, not wearing seatbelts all suffer from the invisible issue/problem curse. It will never affect you, until it does or you look back and realise it did. It's one of those weird human behaviours where a lot of people will do something that they know can potentially kill them or someone else, but still do it.

We humans have this odd thought process of if I don't see it directly happen as I do it, it doesn't seem real or will never happen. (Or a large part of the population do)

Yep.... optimism bias. About 70% of people actually seriously believe it. It's the " only happens to other people " syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias

 

[BREWSTERS]

Good to hear, genuinely (but given that you like numbers), that's 84 words defending yourself from accusations that haven't been made. I was simply asking... in light of the news you posted what you would like to see happen differently from what's happening now?

I'd like to see no lockdown.

You do realise this is crashing the economy...by design. That is the only given in this situation. Project your thoughts a few months into the future. Things aren't going to return to how they were. Things are going to be seriously bad for a lot of people...and worse for everyone. You, me, our families. Some of the freedoms that we had last week, we will never see again.

Why not ask why after the events unfold in the next however many months, surely it's better to err on the side of caution right now, when it could be putting lives at stake? And to learn lessons from countries who are ahead of us in the outbreak of the virus?

How many lives will be put at stake if and when we come out of these measures?

How many people won't be able to afford good food, hygiene, healthcare...homes? How many young people are going to be put off going into healthcare as a result of what they can see now? These things are certain.

---------------------------------------

Does anyone know of any autopsies that have been done, that show that a person died 'of' and not just 'with' CV? I imagine there won't be any at all.

Mike Pompeo (ex CIA Director and Secretary of State) slipping up here, describing it as a 'live exercise' - can anyone work out what Trump mutters to him? I can't.

Here's the CDC advertising the position for a Public Health Advisor (Quarantine Program)...back in mid November. This could be a genuine coincidence.

This is from a colleague at our France office;
Yes it’s totally over action – in France, we have to complete a form before to go out each time (only authorized reasons) – if police catch you without this form, you’ll get a fine of 135€ and if they catch you a second time same day, you’ll get a fine of 1500€….

 

[Murray]

Mike Pompeo (ex CIA Director and Secretary of State) slipping up here, describing it as a 'live exercise' - can anyone work out what Trump mutters to him? I can't.

Trump says "should have.. should have let us know"

 

[dee]

Does anyone know of any autopsies that have been done, that show that a person died 'of' and not just 'with' CV? I imagine there won't be any at all.

So are you saying the people on ventilators or not there ? There reports of decision being made on who to essentially let drown slowly are false ?

 

[Richard K]

How many young people are going to be put off going into healthcare as a result of what they can see now?

I assume you mean how many people are going to be put off going into healthcare as a career?

That is a worry, but certainly a lot more would be put off if we have no lockdown.

The nightmare scenario for NHS workers is of being overwhelmed (and infected) by more patients than the system can possibly handle. That's the prospect which is most likely to deter people from wanting to work in healthcare – and lockdown is there to address it.

 

[anthony]

I'd like to see no lock down.

Why? Please spell out your alternative instead of an unqualified statement!

You do realize this is crashing the economy...by design.

Everyone realizes it'll damage our economy, but it is not by design, it is by necessity. The Government have explained it this way, to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed.
You say it is by design, please can you expand why the Government are doing it by design? Back up what you are saying with some hard and proven facts!

Some of the freedoms that we had last week, we will never see again.

I really look forward to you answer on this question: What are the freedoms that we will never see again? Please list them, and provide your evidence!

How many lives will be put at stake if and when we come out of these measures?

Please answer your own question, you seem to know something we don't? Some proven data from you would be nice to have here.

How many people won't be able to afford good food, hygiene, healthcare...homes? How many young people are going to be put off going into healthcare as a result of what they can see now? These things are certain.

You end these questions with "These things are certain". Please back it up with the facts.

 

[philiporchard]

My colleague Mark went down unwell last Thursday.

He is 36, about 10.5 stone, never smoked, rarely drinks and often wanders into the office with a healthy conconction his wife has made him - generally vivid green in colour! So they are very healthy concsious.

His temp kept going up and last Sat they had to call the ambulance as he was really struggling to breathe. I think it was a terrifying experience for him. Anyway, paramedics arrived after 4 hours and carried out a few checks and told him it was safer to stay home and try and rest in bed.

It's now Weds and he is still very poorly. He can't even get to the bathroom without help. And they live in a small bungalow.

So take from that what you'd like.
I've certainly started taking things a lot more seriously that's for sure.

 

[Siusaidh]

I agree that there may be serious problems when we all come out of this crisis (probably in about a year). We will then face the crisis of recession, and yes, in health terms poverty and deprivation cause health issues.

But I contest that the (sort of) 'lock-down' is by "design". That's conspiracy paranoia in my opinion. This terrible disease has just struck us worldwide - an outbreak like a genie which once out of the bottle defied politicians worldwide.

I don't think the virus was made by evil conspirators. I think it emerged in contexts that can be rationally explained.

A 'No lock down' approach would equate to maybe 250,000 extra people dying before the time when they otherwise would have. Most healthcare staff, most experts, most politicians, most people recognise that the best thing to do is to minimise the unnecessarily early deaths.

I accept you can frame an argument that the recession/depression that may follow may have graver healthcare consequences - not sure I agree, but it's a reasonable argument. Conspiracy theories seem far less reasonable to me. We need clear minds and rationality, and practical compassion (eg work of doctors and nurses - ask THEM what they think).

Nearly always I tend, philosophically, towards the shambles theory of the universe... aka shit happens... rather than the David Icke mentality which (seems to me) verges on paranoia or psychosis.

No, I don't think evil powerbrokers made this virus and planted it in China. There is a danger that in the future environmentalists who hate the way humanity is pillaging the planet and destroying the habitats of other species might conspire to de-populate the planet via a lethal and created/modified disease. I don't believe this is the case here. I think politicians have been surprised and overwhelmed by this event. I think it is part of a range of shambolic events that can happen without any evil conspiracy.

In any case, our best response is rationality and practicality. Allowing the virus to have free rein will knowingly kill hundreds of thousands. Sorry, but your suggestion that people are dying from other diseases, not the coronavirus, they would have died this week anyway, just doesn't stack up with the experience and reports of healthcare professionals who are best-informed because they're practical and they're there.

But I acknowledge the point you make about negative healthcare consequences of a recession, austerity, poverty. That's rationally justifiable - Michael Marmot has done some impressive work on this.

 

[Murray]

So take from that what you'd like.
I've certainly started taking things a lot more seriously that's for sure.

About 3 years ago I woke up, made breakfast, sat down to eat but realised I was way too tired and needed to lay down

I went back to bed and was asleep for pretty much the next 6 days minus waking up to drink, being too hot and needing to use the bathroom

Had a dry cough to begin and severe fatigue then a fever for 2-3 days

On the fourth day I got up to pee, was going, felt light headed so I leaned on the wall then I woke up on the floor

Had passed out and fallen backwards and hit my head on the cupboard below the sink, had a sore head but luckily it was the cupboard door which had a little flex to it rather than the sink itself

After I woke up and realised where I was and what had happened I got up, felt the back back of my head which was sore but nothing catastrophic, tried to go back to bed but still felt faint so had to lean on the wall for couple more minutes before trying

On day 7 I woke up feeling 90% better, the severe fatigue had gone

I was 30 at the time, ok-ish health, well at least in terms of I didn't get sick often anyway, probably had a severe vitamin D deficiency though and was underweight

I'm sure we all have similar tales of illness, that was the worst case of flu I ever had though

I guess I say all this to say normal flu can bowl you over even if you're young and you think you're fairly healthy, but we bounce back and usually, thankfully, without medical intervention (I probably should have called 999 after passing out but all I wanted to do is go back to bed)

If you weren't worried about needing the seasonal flu jab you shouldn't be too worried about yourself and corona

 

[BREWSTERS]

So are you saying the people on ventilators or not there ? There reports of decision being made on who to essentially let drown slowly are false ?

What I'm saying is, people who have pneumonia, or lung cancer etc who need ventilators...and also contract CV, are all being classed as CV deaths. So did they die because of CV, or die with CV? Because they are all being classed as CV deaths.