Corona please read very important

[martin-s]

It's not very clear if and how online retailers are affected by the lockdown is it. Why should Sports Direct online be allowed to stay open, with the staff, supply and delivery movements that requires?

Statement on BBC from Gove says: "Deliveries of "non-essential" goods such as toys and clothes can continue"

 

[ian]

It's not very clear if and how online retailers are affected by the lockdown is it. Why should Sports Direct online be allowed to stay open, with the staff, supply and delivery movements that requires?

They've said online businesses can remain open. I guess it is a half way house, ensuring online retailers have measures in place that otherwise might get ignored by members of the public going to the shops.

 

[Siusaidh]

YOU ARE IN QUEUE POSITION 35,691

So - Boris wants us to get food delivered if we can.

Tesco - no delivery slots. Waitrose - no delivery slots.

Ocado - a queue of 35,691 people trying to access the page, with the warning that this is probably only useful for people wanting to amend delivery orders they have already made.

WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?

Otherwise Boris's suggestion is simply not possible for most people.

 

[webber]

WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?

I think this will inevitably happen, just at the right time when it's absolutely necessary.
Doing it too early, too much at once, could really panic people, things could get out of hand.
As a government you don't want to create a social unrest problem on top of this.
There's been an obvious pattern of small incremental steps and new information given – probably not by coincidence.
This is now beyond control and definitely beyond our individual control – take what you're given, do what you're told.
We're in damage control mode and no obvious end in sight so need to not exhaust all options too early.

 

[Murray]

WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?

Just employ all the young healthy people with their own vehicles sat at home to deliver shopping to anyone who qualifies for a flu jab at least

 

[websaway]

YOU ARE IN QUEUE POSITION 35,691

So - Boris wants us to get food delivered if we can.

Tesco - no delivery slots. Waitrose - no delivery slots.

Ocado - a queue of 35,691 people trying to access the page, with the warning that this is probably only useful for people wanting to amend delivery orders they have already made.

WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?

Otherwise Boris's suggestion is simply not possible for most people.

I don't think anyone is starving already.

 

[websaway]

In the mid 70s the dead could not be buried, rubbish was not collected, petrol was rationed, candles were used during power cuts. People need to grow up and bite the bullet, stop complaining and let government govern. Thank god this is not a nuclear attack or a collision with a comet. We will come through this, we need to just keep ourselves and family alive so they can come out the other side.

 

[Siusaidh]

I agree with Webber that the Government have planned incremental steps, to try to 'carry' people with them, but they still haven't got a handle on a number of things, and need to tighten up and be more precise and enforcing NOW.

People are ignoring the instruction about social distancing and the London Underground and its use, because no authority is checking up on whether they have a right to be on those trains or not.

In the London context at least, where the virus is starting to rage, everyone who needs to travel should be asked to produce permits at the entry and exit points. This could be done through essential workers being given permits, and frankly, I don't regard construction as absolutely essential at this moment, and if you're fit and well enough to work on a construction site, you're fit and well enough to cycle to work (if we really think construction is so absolutely a priority, which in most cases I don't at this time).

There's still - in practical terms - no enforcement going on. People can still more or less do what they want and go where they want.

Take a look at the tube THIS MORNING:

Full article: here

Websaway - I agree we need to get on with how things are. I also think we are privileged compared to many countries. And I do think we need to support government because none of this is easy.

But I still think it's legit and important to air views and ideas - as I have said, I believe we need to consider army logistics to support food supply - the more people who can get their food delivered direct to the door, the fewer people are catching/spreading the virus at shops. And if the London Underground isn't policed to ENFORCE legitimate travel only, and I suggest use of travel passes to be checked at barriers, then people (as in picture above) will continue to ignore the clear rules on distancing, and that's an insult to all our health workers, adding extra cases by spreading disease, and also note in the article that a healthworker was pointing out there's more risk of her bringing infection to her workplace via travel on the underground, than the more controlled risks in the hospitals themselves.

TFL staff are rightly outraged. Once again we have a government direction that relies on people's good will. I'm afraid that's a sentimental and old-fashioned vision of Britain in the 1940's. In this country today, there are more people who (through desperation for income, or lacking responsibility to others) don't operate on good will. They operate on 'I'll do what I want' or 'what I have to do'.

It's important to view things with balance, and I know how many really decent people there are. They hardly even need to be enforced. They are not the problem. Nevertheless, on the London Underground yesterday, and again today, it's all just drifting along with words on TV. Like with 'order deliveries', there is no implementation or enforcement. The government are trying, but people on the front line are still the ones stating the realities and the shortfalls (lack of PPE on some wards, nurses using binliners because they're out of aprons etc, far too few people being tested because people were slow off the mark etc).

And I still think we need a cross-party national unity approach at press conferences, because we are one nation, and party politics is transcended by our need to work together as Society and Community.

No need to panic, but an urgent need to define clearly, implement, and enforce. Failure to do so will cost many lives.

 

[LCHappy]

We need new rules now. Anyone caught out without a reason, being a key worker etc should have their name taken and prevented from getting a ventilator if they get sick.

Let's prioritise ventilators to people who stay in.

 

[super-whois]

I don't regard construction as absolutely essential at this moment

That's a very broad statement, some construction is essential, I'm aware of new hospital developments being expedited, hoping to provide new hospital space months ahead of original planning (getting to a useable state in the next week or two). Of course, most construction doesn't fall into this category, but there is some that shouldn't be forgotten about.

 

[Siusaidh]

Very fair point about work to expedite health care facilities. What I don't think is essential is construction work on new hotels, condos for rich foreign market, and things like that. So I think a 'permit' should be required for construction sites to stay open, and only granted if - as in the good example you cited - the work is viewed as absolutely essential.

It was claimed in the BBC article this morning that there were many construction workers on the underground today. Sure, working outdoors they can probably keep safe distance, and outdoors is safer - but the risk is catching it on journeys, public transport, etc and then passing it on to others. Extra people on public transport seems to cram people closer and increase the risk of infection for everyone.

On the testing issue, on Question Time the Health Secretary said they were starting new increased testing with 25,000 tests a day to start with. When pressed on exactly when there would be 25,000 tests a day, he replied towards the end of this week. It is now Tuesday and yesterday 5,600 tests were carried out. That simply doesn't seem enough to me. He says today they have ordered millions more, to be delivered in the next days or weeks - in all probability they are weeks away. It is now almost April, and I'm left wondering why contingency planning didn't lead to stockpiling these many weeks ago, because we need them now. Nevertheless I wish him well in a very difficult and challenging job.

The most challenging jobs of all are on the frontline, and it's vital politicians give credence to the words of frontline workers with regard to testing of staff and also protective clothing.

Nurses should not be exposed to the virus as they travel to work on crammed underground trains because politicians have not got a handle on the situation. Specifically, how are they going to safeguard the nurses travelling to work, and guarantee trains are not choc-a-bloc?

 

[Siusaidh]

As a nurse, I assure you that I would *ALWAYS* treat a patient/service-user, whoever they are. I've had sex offenders on my wards, close to death and in desperate need, with police and/or prison guard, but if they're ill, my job is to give them compassionate care and kindness.

That doesn't mean I sentimentalise my views. There are too many little shits out there at present ignoring their responsibilities to others. Police today had to break up a group of 20 people having a barbecue... the day after the Prime Minister said gathering of no more than 2 people. I'm all in favour of on the spot fines, and at present (as from Thursday) that is a £30 maximum fine. I think that is far too soft.

 

[BREWSTERS]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19

As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.

Then why lockdown on 23 Mar 20?

Definition of HCID
In the UK, a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) is defined according to the following criteria:

• acute infectious disease
• typically has a high case-fatality rate
• may not have effective prophylaxis or treatment
• often difficult to recognise and detect rapidly
• ability to spread in the community and within healthcare settings
• requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely

Also, you might want to look up 'Event 201 - Johns Hopkins University'. An exercise initiated by Bill Gates...who famously pushes for de-population and wants to partly achieve it through vaccines. Coincidence?

I refer you back to one of the Franklin Roosevelt quotes from my last post: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way"

 

[diablo]

There have been 87 deaths caused by coronavirus in the UK since Monday, taking the total to 422 - according to the latest government figures - falling further behind Italy's trajectory of two weeks ago.

 

[Siusaidh]

Then why lockdown on 23 Mar 20?

Because fewer people will die before their time.

Because it's widely regarded as the responsible thing to do.

Because although death from Covid-19 is not 'high-frequency' at the level of Ebola, elderly people and those in vulnerable categories have a clear risk of death sooner than they would otherwise die in numbers that may range between 10,000 and 500,000 (depending on whether we lock down / reduce social contact or not).

There is EVERY good reason to significantly reduce social interaction for a period of time.

It is plain compassion, not political conspiracy.

 

[diablo]

On the testing issue, on Question Time the Health Secretary said they were starting new increased testing with 25,000 tests a day to start with. When pressed on exactly when there would be 25,000 tests a day, he replied towards the end of this week. It is now Tuesday and yesterday 5,600 tests were carried out. That simply doesn't seem enough to me. He says today they have ordered millions more, to be delivered in the next days or weeks - in all probability they are weeks away. It is now almost April, and I'm left wondering why contingency planning didn't lead to stockpiling these many weeks ago, because we need them now. Nevertheless I wish him well in a very difficult and challenging job.

Important to note that it isn't just test kits that are needed, but the staff and facilities to do the testing - alongside all the other tests for other serious medical conditions that still need to b done.

My daughter is one of those in Scotland doing the testing, working 12 hours shifts with testing now 24/7.

 

[Siusaidh]

As diabolo pointed out above, it's slightly encouraging that after almost exactly mirroring the rate of deaths in Italy for 15 days, in these past two days, though deaths are still increasing here, they are NOT mirroring the Italian rate.

...Tuesday numbers have tended to spike - so I am wondering if we'll see a rise in the rate tomorrow.

Today there were 54 deaths reported in 24 hours. I fear tomorrow the number may be around 80. Let's hope not.

87

Although we are a bit below the equivalent rate in Italy, 87 still puts us on a serious upward trajectory. We are still heading for over 2000 deaths by the end of the month. From there things get really difficult. The present lock down seems unavoidable to try to slow the rate of increase.

 

[Murray]

£30!? How is that even considered a fine. That's so low it's likely considered worth the risk to people who want to flaunt the rules. It's a bit pointless.

I thought the same with 5p for a plastic bag at the shops, that's just a trivial amount it wont change habits but it seems to have made a fairly substantial difference

I guess the big difference here though is if people don't think they will get caught

 

[BREWSTERS]

Technically it's hard to argue if we're actually in a lockdown. It's more just some basic restrictions which are shops are closed and you can't hang out with your mates/family. Some people can go to work and pop to the shop on their way, pop to the shop on the way home again, then go pick up their kids from another parents house before all going outside for a walk as part of their daily exercise... all in the same day. That's hardly a lockdown.

EDIT: In regards to why it's not classed as one... the page you link to states exactly why. You've just left that important information out of your copy/paste and then basically just said it's a conspiracy theory.

Leaving out information which goes against your point, is a bit disingenuous.

Not disingenuous at all. I linked to the page...didn't want to copy and paste too much as it dilutes the message. But I'm quite happy to add it for you as it's interesting reading, and supports the declining threat. Here it is - if you feel there should be more, please post it up;

As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.

The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.

The need to have a national, coordinated response remains, but this is being met by the government’s COVID-19 response.

Cases of COVID-19 are no longer managed by HCID treatment centres only. All healthcare workers managing possible and confirmed cases should follow the updated national infection and prevention (IPC) guidance for COVID-19, which supersedes all previous IPC guidance for COVID-19. This guidance includes instructions about different personal protective equipment (PPE) ensembles that are appropriate for different clinical scenarios.

 

[Edwin]

It has emerged today that the 80% guarantee for wages (where the Government will pay up to £2,500/month for furloughed workers) is something the Government "hope" to have in operation by the end of April.

In other words, it's largely a PR stunt. Sure, the money will probably come... eventually (like the much-trailed testing kits). But many firms won't be willing or able to hold out that long. Still, the Government got their positive headlines and persuaded people they were doing something.