A look at a "real world" scenario.

[grantw]

If any ones up for it, how do the reported sales at domainprices.co.uk (4,889 records) fair? I suspect a lot of late date drops in there.

Not exact as I copied the page and extracted the domains in a rough way. Also some of the domains are now free to reg and show as a winner in the list.

Roughly 4200 would get the .uk

csv here if anyone wants a look:

http://pastebin.com/kJU5AUS8

Grant

 

[Stephen]

100% stats?

Thanks Edwin.

I wonder if you would post the names of the lossers who will not get the domain if the proposal goes ahead and all that are entitiled claim it, to see if the winning tld is more deserving.

It would be nice if Nominet provided as with the figures for the entire UK namespace, does anybody have any influence to obtain it?

 

[Edwin]

I wonder if you would post the names of the lossers who will not get the domain if the proposal goes ahead and all that are entitiled claim it, to see if the winning tld is more deserving.[/B]

I'm not going to do that as they're not my names and nothing to do with me.

However, in general terms...

Of the 9 .co.uk "losers":
- 1 is a 3 letter domain losing to both the .org.uk and the .me.uk versions (the 3 letters don't spell anything, nor is it a famous acronym)
- 1 is a 3 letter domain losing to the .org.uk version (ditto)
- 2 are 4 letter domains losing to the .org.uk versions (ditto)
- 2 are pure generics losing to the .org.uk versions
- 1 is a made up expression (2 words stuck together) losing to the .org.uk version
- 2 are a bit weird and may not be a problem at all (different owners but there's some strong indications that they're actually linked entities who just haven't sorted their Whois out properly)

So 7 definite "issues" and 2 "maybes", but only 1 of the 7 (indeed 1 out of ALL the 947 sites) is a "real loser" in that somebody has the .org.uk of their made-up .co.uk brand, and the .org.uk is actually older (no idea how that came about). You could argue the toss forever on the generics and the 3- and 4-letter acronym ones.

(I take it the .org.uk "losers" don't really matter, because NOBODY has argued that they should go first.)

 

[foz]

Not exact as I copied the page and extracted the domains in a rough way. Also some of the domains are now free to reg and show as a winner in the list.

Roughly 4200 would get the .uk

csv here if anyone wants a look:

http://pastebin.com/kJU5AUS8

Grant

Cheers Grant.

These are the "No":

executor.co.uk
team.co.uk
golf.org.uk
bso.co.uk
dr.co.uk
beautyadvisor.co.uk
carports.co.uk
nationalrailenquiries.co.uk
eyesee.co.uk
popupstands.co.uk
webbs.co.uk
ned.co.uk
etape.co.uk
lakedistrict.org.uk
fcc.co.uk
activehealth.co.uk
wholesale.co.uk
partners.co.uk
leap.co.uk
monk.co.uk
chamberlains.co.uk
classicweddingcars.co.uk
ainsworth.co.uk
investmentsdirect.co.uk
consolidatedcredit.co.uk
cambria.co.uk
assure.co.uk
kss.co.uk
ewan.co.uk
mdc.co.uk
game.org.uk
key.org.uk
ooo.co.uk
sunbeam.co.uk
smarthousing.co.uk
voicemarketing.co.uk
bombay.co.uk
redeye.co.uk
hansen.co.uk
scores.co.uk
proper.co.uk
scout.co.uk
richardcarter.co.uk
ecogroup.co.uk
techtalk.co.uk
companyregistration.co.uk
ste.co.uk
webdesigncardiff.co.uk
preschool.org.uk
sendflowers.org.uk
sslcertificates.co.uk
seeker.co.uk
sciencerevision.co.uk
homeandaway.co.uk
goodwins.co.uk
foreveryoung.co.uk
cosmeticdentist.org.uk
marketline.co.uk
code.co.uk
analysis.co.uk
jlt.co.uk
localsolicitor.co.uk
mmg.co.uk
greenfields.co.uk
investmentfund.co.uk
onlineinvestment.co.uk
recce.co.uk
getglobal.co.uk
strangers.co.uk
australianjobs.co.uk
4s.co.uk
businessmentor.co.uk
cda.co.uk
learnspanish.org.uk
motorbikeclaims.co.uk
offtheshelf.co.uk
italia.co.uk
revise.co.uk
sciencefiction.co.uk
equinedentistry.co.uk
metropolitan.org.uk
drivemycar.co.uk
liveroulette.org.uk
cheapcarinsuranceforyoungdrivers.co.uk
ipsolutions.co.uk
jobsincardiff.co.uk
creativenetwork.co.uk
dating.org.uk
cimt.co.uk
seniorsingles.co.uk
flyers.co.uk
fatburners.org.uk
solargroup.co.uk
marbleandgranite.co.uk
flowerdelivery.org.uk
traveltopia.co.uk
chatrooms.org.uk
forecast.co.uk
myweather.co.uk
mp3s.co.uk
motorhomeinsurance.org.uk
adventuretravelinsurance.co.uk
firstaidsupplies.co.uk
gforce.co.uk
ibike.co.uk
blackjackonline.co.uk
casino-gambling.co.uk
perfectday.co.uk
jbs.co.uk
jaz.co.uk
ceb.co.uk
bodybeautiful.co.uk
genus.co.uk
grovelands.co.uk
freebiesuk.co.uk
printworks.co.uk
pof.co.uk
powertools.org.uk
edd.co.uk
sleepsolutions.co.uk
fastweightloss.co.uk
fol.co.uk
smo.co.uk
thebookclub.co.uk
cheapdesignerclothes.co.uk
melrose.co.uk
durdledoor.co.uk
bgf.co.uk
scn.co.uk
poker.org.uk
mots.co.uk
archer.co.uk
ortus.co.uk
tenon.co.uk
orthotics.org.uk
motherofthebrideoutfits.co.uk
madeit.co.uk
doubleglazingcompanies.co.uk
icloud.co.uk
powerswitch.co.uk
safeandsound.co.uk
lifeinsurancequote.org.uk
bets.org.uk
autoblog.co.uk
kitchen-doors.co.uk
carhirespain.org.uk
taxiinsurance.org.uk
american.co.uk
kathryn.co.uk
remortgagedeals.org.uk
iab.co.uk
chickenhouses.co.uk
isurvey.co.uk
roofcleaning.co.uk
mgd.co.uk
vevo.co.uk
maxi.co.uk
paddy.co.uk
automate.co.uk
theleadingedge.co.uk
identityprotection.co.uk
sphere.co.uk
carinsurancegroups.org.uk
victors.co.uk
oko.co.uk
staticcaravanholidays.co.uk
adbusters.co.uk
sweet-shop.co.uk
3dglasses.org.uk
bodybuilders.co.uk
emergencyglazing.co.uk
inclusiveholidays.co.uk
cyprus.org.uk
survivor.co.uk
tabletpc.co.uk
energyconnect.co.uk
prweb.co.uk
goldtocash.co.uk
ocean.co.uk
privatenumberplates.org.uk
nlp.org.uk
christmastreestands.co.uk
dollop.co.uk
blades.co.uk
doublebeds.org.uk
curiosity.co.uk
network.co.uk
slt.co.uk
suits.org.uk
phentermine.co.uk
sustainableliving.co.uk
tequila.co.uk
thisissurrey.co.uk
scratchcards.org.uk
accidentcompensation.co.uk
gpsonline.org.uk
wholelifeinsurance.org.uk
treatmentcenters.co.uk
fttc.co.uk
clothingbrands.co.uk
wigs.org.uk
mortgagelifeinsurance.org.uk
ladiesperfume.co.uk
firsttimebuyer.co.uk
bedandbreakfasts.org.uk
safecam.co.uk
blackjack.org.uk
parkroyal.co.uk
homeinsurance.org.uk
creditcards.org.uk
countertops.org.uk
breastenlargement.org.uk
premiere.co.uk
ignition.co.uk
mortgagesolutions.co.uk
houseremovals.org.uk
carglass.co.uk
triathlonwetsuits.co.uk
christian.co.uk
buildingcontractors.co.uk
casinogamesonline.co.uk
martindale.co.uk
free-delivery.co.uk
bestonlinecasino.org.uk
hair-transplant.co.uk
theinstitute.co.uk
euston.co.uk
affiliateprograms.org.uk
solarsmart.co.uk
freecasino.co.uk
paydaylenders.co.uk
avinstallations.co.uk
trex.co.uk
betting.org.uk
enterprisearchitects.co.uk
bubbleroom.co.uk
yalla.co.uk
potters.co.uk
cheaphotelsinnewyork.co.uk
bubbly.co.uk
clarus.co.uk
bodypiercing.co.uk
taxcalculator.co.uk
apollotheatre.co.uk
analyst.co.uk
cheapoair.co.uk
careerguidance.co.uk
kennelclub.org.uk
ukvisas.co.uk
cd-printing.co.uk
yourfreeipad.co.uk
nsr.co.uk
seocompanies.co.uk
crohnsdisease.co.uk
care-homes.co.uk
ladder.co.uk
smartphones.org.uk
caravan-insurance.co.uk
travelinsurancequote.co.uk
trekkingholidays.co.uk
gains.co.uk
cheap-loans.co.uk
creditcardcomparison.co.uk
digitalslrcameras.org.uk
freemobilephone.co.uk
tattoo.org.uk
park.org.uk
sevensisters.co.uk
viagra.me.uk
bishopscleeve.co.uk
blowjobs.co.uk
e-shopping.co.uk
thunderbolt.co.uk
lodging.co.uk
christiandating.co.uk
emaillist.co.uk
debt-collection.co.uk
debthelp.org.uk
employmentlawyers.co.uk
storch.co.uk
carcrashclaim.co.uk
gll.co.uk
sexcam.co.uk
castlewood.co.uk
dooley.co.uk
childrenscentre.co.uk
ruth.co.uk
councilexchanges.co.uk
beautifulwomen.co.uk
3peaks.co.uk
stronger.co.uk
promotionalclothing.co.uk
kicks.co.uk
spaweekends.co.uk
grayling.co.uk
asses.co.uk
toys.org.uk
jizz.co.uk
loveguru.co.uk
morpeth.co.uk
p15.co.uk
kev.co.uk
whypaymore.co.uk
wham.co.uk
jobrown.co.uk
everyone.org.uk
antivirusfirewall.co.uk
ledtelevisions.co.uk
beyourbest.co.uk
allaboutproperty.co.uk
ramshackle.co.uk
avant-garde.co.uk
serviceplus.co.uk
sugarrush.co.uk
khs.co.uk
aixenprovence.co.uk
1080.co.uk
nsl.co.uk
tipping.co.uk
abm.co.uk
makeupstore.co.uk
zionism.co.uk
optic.co.uk
shade.co.uk
globaladventure.co.uk
frederick.co.uk
catering-equipment.co.uk
niceweb.co.uk
businesshealth.co.uk
slotmachinesonline.co.uk
bryson.co.uk
councilhouseexchange.co.uk
pretoria.co.uk
rhinocom.co.uk
infragistics.co.uk
bookcycle.co.uk
londonofficefurniture.co.uk
pmsltd.co.uk
carefinder.co.uk
in3.co.uk
fatloss4idiots.co.uk
wolframalpha.co.uk
drpc.co.uk
drtv.co.uk
fine.co.uk
sportingheroes.co.uk
gardenscapes.co.uk
cbconline.co.uk
singlesunited.co.uk
kitchenappliances.co.uk
goodsell.co.uk
002.co.uk
pikey.co.uk
broadbands.org.uk
studentjobs.org.uk
weddingdvd.co.uk
pfma.co.uk
creditguide.co.uk
carbonfootprint.org.uk
pocketexpress.co.uk
tbts.co.uk
unlockiphone.co.uk
uk-classifieds.co.uk
auctiontoday.co.uk
bomb.co.uk
neuroradiology.co.uk
owen.org.uk
studentaccom.co.uk
fit4life.co.uk
enjoytheride.co.uk
sapo.co.uk
rsb.org.uk
searchengineoptimisation.org.uk
nma.org.uk
softwarehouse.co.uk
led-signs.co.uk
buyiphone.co.uk
onlinecasino.org.uk
cweb.co.uk
calonlan.co.uk
employmentsolicitors.co.uk
espionage.co.uk
chris-adams.co.uk
roman-blinds.co.uk
caiman.co.uk
canvasprint.co.uk
englishlanguageschools.co.uk
sdsl.co.uk
wholehog.co.uk
fuelcard.org.uk
intatravel.co.uk
theprintingpress.co.uk
ppi.co.uk
bostonconsulting.co.uk
asgard.co.uk
bookshare.co.uk
fruitandveg.co.uk
guns.co.uk
happylondon.co.uk
ilovemyjob.co.uk
pep.me.uk
porter.org.uk
savi.co.uk
thechamberofcommerce.co.uk
thechamberofcommerce.org.uk
truefit.co.uk
training-course.co.uk
vouchers.org.uk
cheap.org.uk
astech.co.uk
acfe.co.uk
fatburningfoods.co.uk
mcbs.co.uk
myweddinglist.co.uk
ukwildlife.co.uk
cheapsummerholidays.co.uk
cleanmail.co.uk
dunwichcliffsestate.co.uk
e25.co.uk
united-domains.co.uk
fmea.co.uk
forestlodge.co.uk
gift-experiences.co.uk
liverpoolsolicitors.co.uk
noice.co.uk
theseus.co.uk
edinburgh-hotels.co.uk
theclub.co.uk
felixdennis.co.uk
acaiberry.co.uk
biba.co.uk
fuze.co.uk
homecare.co.uk
paintballs.co.uk
twentyfour.co.uk
moretolife.org.uk
bigbonuses.co.uk
yada.co.uk
justworks.co.uk
housegroup.co.uk
firstaider.co.uk
trustdeed.co.uk
darlings.co.uk
tfg.co.uk
artrental.co.uk
involve.co.uk
sunpoker.co.uk
event.org.uk
cheapwine.co.uk
genealogy.org.uk
ufound.co.uk
vakantie.co.uk
physiofitness.co.uk
forensics.co.uk
continuation.co.uk
sheffield.org.uk
harleystreet.co.uk
postgrad.co.uk
charitybingo.co.uk
freelancer.co.uk
openhouse.co.uk
theboxstore.co.uk
myfamilytree.co.uk
pillbox.co.uk
assist.me.uk
psychosocial.co.uk
hamiltons.co.uk
algarveproperty.co.uk
dysons.co.uk
ethicalstore.co.uk
geco.co.uk
hdcc.co.uk
listed.co.uk
moneysearch.co.uk
musculardevelopment.co.uk
networker.co.uk
earthhour.co.uk
skilled.co.uk
homemortgage.co.uk
kgb.co.uk
likeyou.co.uk
owenfamily.co.uk
selfhypnosis.co.uk
stmatthew.co.uk
newcontract.co.uk
elliott.co.uk
lightbulb.co.uk
willy.org.uk
lax.org.uk
arba.co.uk
freeman.co.uk
hambletonhall.co.uk
macrepairs.co.uk
resolution.co.uk
spicers.co.uk
vwd.co.uk
locksmith.org.uk
ivory.co.uk
nova-scotia.co.uk
freeonlinegames.co.uk
britishhighcommission.co.uk
mgt.co.uk
coolshop.co.uk
studiopilates.co.uk
voipcom.co.uk
houseinsurance.me.uk
signposter.co.uk
row.co.uk
bgirls.co.uk
defi.co.uk
plumbs.co.uk
portugalguide.co.uk
rcuk.co.uk
lanyards.co.uk
grassrootsfootball.co.uk
recycle.co.uk
employment.co.uk
getmeoutofhere.co.uk
leftfield.co.uk
royalsignals.co.uk
pcg.co.uk
money4.co.uk
theopera.co.uk
plastic-surgeon.co.uk
maglite.co.uk
soft.co.uk
elizabeth.co.uk
invalid.co.uk
businessbrokers.org.uk
e-clear.co.uk
greengage.co.uk
anime.co.uk
3gp.co.uk
16mm.co.uk
bannisters.co.uk
html.co.uk
digital-media.co.uk
workzone.co.uk
playcasinogame.co.uk
uklottery.co.uk
btp.co.uk
apply.org.uk
promotion.org.uk
freud.co.uk
biblio.co.uk
firespin.co.uk
forexcurrency.co.uk
minime.co.uk
shopping.org.uk
magicmonkey.co.uk
reddit.co.uk
partnership.co.uk
adultmatchmaker.co.uk
jules.co.uk
epidemik.co.uk
crystalpalace.co.uk
arenaleisure.co.uk
bareback.co.uk
mbr.co.uk
murton.co.uk
nimble.co.uk
tjc.co.uk
viajar.co.uk
fair.org.uk
counselling.org.uk
wholesalers.org.uk
arca.co.uk
hero.co.uk
tcl.co.uk
gates.co.uk
bodog.co.uk
turnbulls.co.uk
thesociety.co.uk
mobile.org.uk
myriad.co.uk
freemail.co.uk
sudbury.co.uk
iona.co.uk
integrity.co.uk
reductil.co.uk
celtic.org.uk
jpod.co.uk
e5.org.uk
e6.org.uk
e8.org.uk
e9.org.uk
w4.org.uk
h5.org.uk
w7.org.uk
tempo.co.uk
e7.org.uk
secureserve.co.uk
gig.co.uk
dbp.co.uk
mps.co.uk
theater.co.uk
countrywide.co.uk
duffield.co.uk
pilates.co.uk
and.co.uk
why.co.uk
dimmock.co.uk
performance.co.uk
history.co.uk
netname.co.uk
nocatch.co.uk
adsl-guide.co.uk
energywatch.co.uk
skills4life.co.uk
igd.co.uk
gst.co.uk
seacruise.co.uk
bwca.co.uk
actors.co.uk
cvt.co.uk
brainwash.co.uk
lyrics.co.uk
forsale.co.uk
sfla.co.uk
repossessedproperties.co.uk
mhba.co.uk
bernstein.co.uk

 

[Edwin]

There are 624 "no" out of 4,828 names total. Of those 624, 91 are ".org.uk" and 4 are ".me.uk" and therefore no surprise that they might "lose"

That leaves 529 "no" .co.uk names (12.6% of all .co.uk names that were sold)

They break down as follows:
42 domains less than a year old
42 domains 1 year old
38 domains 2 years old
48 domains 3 years old
62 domains 4 years old
65 domains 5 years old
48 domains 6 years old
68 domains 7 years old
41 domains 8 years old
51 domains 9 years old
25 domains 10+ years old
Average age of all "no" domains: 5.04 years

Now to the "yes". There are 7 ".org.uk" and ".me.uk" domains in the "yes" column. Setting those aside, we have 4,197 "yes" domains that are ".co.uk"

They break down as follows:
239 domains less than a year old
108 domains 1 year old
155 domains 2 years old
169 domains 3 years old
320 domains 4 years old
445 domains 5 years old
526 domains 6 years old
518 domains 7 years old
439 domains 8 years old
484 domains 9 years old
793 domains 10+ years old
Average age of all "yes" domains: 7.07 years

I don't have the data manipulation skills to do it, but it would be great to take all the .co.uk names and see what the average sale price was for a "no" vs for a "yes".

 

[foz]

Hi Foz,

I see you're in the NZ - do you see there's a real risk of that?

It's certainly not unanimous in favour, you can read the submissions as they come in - http://dnc.org.nz/second_level_proposal_c2

 

[Lucien Taylor]

Thanks Foz, I will follow those - please let me know if you think it might go against

 

[Stephen]

.org.uk - under a different proposal

Of the 47 .org.uk domain owners, 40 (85%) will be automatically eligible for the matching .uk.

Edwin, would you please post, of the 47 .org.uk domains, how many :

• own the equivalent .co.uk (or gets redirected) - so under grandfather rights would get the .uk under a different proposal
• the equivalent .co.uk is FTR (free to register) at this time

Thanks.

 

[tifosi]

Edwin, would you please post, of the 47 .org.uk domains, how many :

• own the equivalent .co.uk (or gets redirected) - so under grandfather rights would get the .uk under a different proposal
• the equivalent .co.uk is FTR (free to register) at this time

Thanks.

Also, of the .org.uk, how many of the corresponding .co.uk domains have a valid business on them that would potentially lose out to the .org.uk, irrespective of whether it is older. Major point which is missing from the synopsis!

 

[Edwin]

Also, of the .org.uk, how many of the corresponding .co.uk domains have a valid business on them that would potentially lose out to the .org.uk, irrespective of whether it is older. Major point which is missing from the synopsis!

"valid business" has never been one of the criteria of V2 (in the summary, anyway). It is sufficient for the domain to be registered.

 

[tifosi]

"valid business" has never been one of the criteria of V2 (in the summary, anyway). It is sufficient for the domain to be registered.

Correct, it isn't. But they're the ones who will lose out, as you were fond of saying in your vociferous response to the original proposal.

So, again, as 'real-world' cases, of the .org.uk's how many of the corresponding .co.uk's have an existing business on it that would lose out to the .org.uk's?

 

[Stephen]

"valid business" has never been one of the criteria of V2 (in the summary, anyway). It is sufficient for the domain to be registered.

The title of this is "real world" the requests made are just to ascertain the effects of the proposal on the real world
and if they went for grandfathering/pairing which together with "do nothing with .uk" are the only repeated options.

Trying to look at your data to try and find real winners and lossers! - your assistance with providing the extra information requested would be very much appreciated - thankyou.

 

[tifosi]

And for your next feat of data-mining, try it with the top 100 ftse companies or furtune-500. They tend to have a higher proportion of premium generics in their domain/business names.

 

[Edwin]

Correct, it isn't. But they're the ones who will lose out, as you were fond of saying in your vociferous response to the original proposal

Not true at all. I was adamantly - and still am - against "use" being one of the criteria. I believe that all the following are equally valid uses of a domain:
- Nothing at all
- Nameservers
- Email only
- Parked
- For sale page
- Private site (password protected so world+dog can't see anything)
- Commercial site (1 page to 1 billion+ pages) except on me.uk domains newer than the cutoff date
- Non-profit site (ditto) except on me.uk domains newer than the cutoff date
- Personal site (ditto)
- Any use not already covered by the above

 

[Edwin]

And for your next feat of data-mining, try it with the top 100 ftse companies or furtune-500. They tend to have a higher proportion of premium generics in their domain/business names.

I'm not going to do this, but somebody else (who actually has DAC access) is welcome to.

 

[websaway]

I agree with the usage thing.
If,had to be used as a particular type of website, had have been an historic prerequisite of rights to a co.uk name then the UK namespace would have never taken off. It would not be sensible to use that criteria now with all the anomalies that would arise.

 

[Stephen]

47 .org.uk

Quote : Of the 47 .org.uk domain owners, 40 (85%) will be automatically eligible for the matching .uk.

Edwin, would you please post, of ALL the 47 .org.uk domains, how many :

• own the equivalent .co.uk (or gets redirected) - so under grandfather rights would get the .uk under a different proposal
• the equivalent .co.uk is FTR (free to register) at this time

Thanks.

Edwin could you please post the original information I requested above.

 

[Edwin]

Edwin could you please post the original information I requested above.

Sorry, got bigger fish to fry. My server's toast, and the restore's not going particularly well. Other people are welcome to take their own "fair sample" data (e.g. spider a Yahoo Directory or Dmoz category and mine it for URLs) and report what they find. Xenu Link Sleuth is a handy piece of software for that sort of thing http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html

 

[Stephen]

Sorry, got bigger fish to fry. My server's toast, and the restore's not going particularly well. Other people are welcome to take their own "fair sample" data (e.g. spider a Yahoo Directory or Dmoz category and mine it for URLs) and report what they find. Xenu Link Sleuth is a handy piece of software for that sort of thing http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html

Thanks for replying and good luck with your server problems.

 

[Stephen]

Who will not take it up?

.....Whilst the revised proposals are a big improvement, there's still a long way to go. Amongst other things, I still feel .co.uk owners should be given first refusal.
- Rob

If that is done only the domainers and some business that understand the workings of domains will take it up, the rest of real .co.uk businesses will be at the mercy of cyber squatters and security issues, for years to come.

If you were giving advise to a business that had a .co.uk would you advise them to take up the rights to the equivalent .uk?

If the answer is yes, why not let them all have it and save the millions of £'s it will take to educate them to take it up and save the UK namespace the damage of having 2 tld's serving the same purpose with all the problems that brings.