.uk V2.0 Questions to Nominet & their Answers

[Marcoose]

i believe nominet are making a mistake, it will look like they are censoring any debate about .uk.

+1

 

[Sound]

This highlights one of the biggest problems Nominet would have encountered had it contacted all 10 million domain owners asking for there opinion on the proposed changes to the uk name-space.

 

[Edwin]

I believe Nominet are making a mistake, it will look like they are censoring any debate about .uk.

Look like to whom?

There's nobody external (with any clout) overseeing the process. So Nominet, even if they are stifling the debate, don't need to worry about it.

Putting out a random press release on a wet bank holiday is 100% not going to change that.

In other words, while it may matter to you or to me or to many Acorners that they're seemingly censoring blog comments, the wider world couldn't give a hoot. It's a completely non-starter of a story.

You need to pick and choose the things that people outside our industry might perhaps actually care about enough to get worked up. "Not publishing a few blog comments" certainly isn't that!

Sorry if that sounds harsh, I just thought this whole debate needs a bucket of cold water poured on it so that we can get back to reality. At the moment it's just (mainly) a few industry insiders getting steamed about something on a domain forum.

 

[Lucien Taylor]

Good press release, and well worth the effort Stephen. I believe that the effect is cumulative and together with the effort of others the message is getting through. We have contacts with a number of major brand holders who are waking up to whatever is being proposed, and even if the proposals go-ahead the real big boys have proper say with the government and can get things reversed if it looks like it is going to cause them major problems, or things like security issues haven’t been properly thought through.

We brought along lawyers from the Independent to the last round table, who were shocked by the proposals and the lack of public awareness, and it is useful to have facts, like Stephen’s report in the public domain as a reference point for others.

I note that Nominet are hosting an awareness event with BCS and so the pressure is worth it and things are starting to happen.

Yes, Nominet do look like they are censoring public debate amongst its members, it owners, and that is bad, and a very valid point to make.

 

[Stephen]

more than 0%

....Putting out a random press release on a wet bank holiday is 100% not going to change that.

In other words, while it may matter to you or to me or to many Acorners that they're seemingly censoring blog comments, the wider world couldn't give a hoot. It's a completely non-starter of a story......

I know I'm not as articulate as you, but it is not "random" press release, I spent a few days writing it, changing and refining the press release (again thanks for your help with pointing out issues with it).

The press release that went out this morning was about the Report showing potential flaws in the current Nominet .uk proposal not about supressing blog comments/questions by Nominet.

As stated in an earlier post:

I would rather deal with the issues and questions raised about .uk and do not want to see the good name of Nominet brought into any disrepute but it is 100% Nominet's decision not to post the questions or request they are answered in a different way and ask me to accept that they are not posted, rather than dictate the solution they have created.

The whole business of domain names is a bit of non story to the mainstream media as can be seen from the lack of coverage of the current .uk proposal, just Google it News or look through the list of media mentions for big name media.

The lack of interest in the media about the subject will not change when Nominet launch .uk, hence my view a lot of current registrants will not know about it and so not obtain their equivalent .uk. Some of those who do not find out about it, may not have wanted to take up the .uk but that is another matter.

I know some people think the Press Release is a waste of time and money but it is my time & money I'm wasting as I believe in a wider debate about the important subject of .uk and I think it will help make a difference.

I don't know about the press release making 0% difference (although accept a wet bank holiday weekend may not have been the ideal time to launch a press release) but I'm trying my best to bring the matter to a wider audience, I hope I can get a few extra people to provide views to Nominet. If anybody has a link to well written article "about why no to .uk" I will also add a link to that as although that is not my preferred option, I'm simply happy to widen the debate about .uk.

 

[Stephen]

cumulative effect

Good press release, and well worth the effort Stephen. ......... We brought along lawyers from the Independent to the last round table, who were shocked by the proposals and the lack of public awareness, and it is useful to have facts, like Stephen’s report in the public domain as a reference point for others.

I note that Nominet are hosting an awareness event with BCS and so the pressure is worth it and things are starting to happen.

Yes, Nominet do look like they are censoring public debate amongst its members, it owners, and that is bad, and a very valid point to make.

Thanks and agree it is cumulative effect of blogs, articles, media items, reports and contacting a range of potentially interested parties.

The cumulative effect about the .uk debate started with Edwin's ground breaking reports and articles.

Did the independent ever do a story about .uk as have not come across one yet, I have contacted there advertising department and offered to do an advertorial but have not heard back from them?

I do believe they held a meeting with BCS during the last .uk proposal, so don't know if pressure brought about this meeting, but I as it was only announced recently, it may have been an extra item to show Nominet are trying to get opinion?. Nominet have expressly stated preference will be given to those who have not attended previous .uk events.

 

[aZooZa]

Edwin, I think it's time you poured a little cold water on yourself. I've noticed your posts getting more and more dismissive and self-indulgent as of late - not like you.

 

[Stephen]

email to registrants?

This highlights one of the biggest problems Nominet would have encountered had it contacted all 10 million domain owners asking for there opinion on the proposed changes to the uk name-space.

That point should certainly be debated as to whether an email to registrants would be useful and what would it achieve and how would it be managed, all valid questions which have not been raised or discussed.

At the moment the reason quoted for no emails to registrants about the current .uk proposal is an internal Nominet legal opinion based on the version 1 .uk proposal that the such an email would be spam.
Which I believe is a poor excuse and should be examined further.

No real serious look at the email issues and no effort to debate the benefits and problems with sending such an email.

 

[Sound]

That point should certainly be debated as to whether an email to registrants would be useful and what would it achieve and how would it be managed, all valid questions which have not been raised or discussed.

At the moment the reason quoted for no emails to registrants about the current .uk proposal is an internal Nominet legal opinion based on the version 1 .uk proposal that the such an email would be spam.
Which I believe is a poor excuse and should be examined further.

No real serious look at the email issues and no effort to debate the benefits and problems with sending such an email.

Can you imagine the resources and man hours you would need if you were to contact ten million domain owners about the change to the UK domain space and start a debate.

 

[Stephen]

very valid point

Can you imagine the resources and man hours you would need if you were to contact ten million domain owners about the change to the UK domain space and start a debate.

It is not 10 million owners but 10 million domains. (I have made that mistake several times when writing posts)

Only 3,000,000 owners (best guess) BUT I agree your point is valid and is much better than the current reason for not acting which is such an email would be spam, so we are not sending it.

Ideally I would like Nominet to ask your question and create the debate, were views and questions are not censored.

 

[aZooZa]

As far as I'm aware, the following; although written in 2007, explains the email permission situation:

http://emailmarketingmanual.com/node/61

Now, the Europhiles are starting to stick their oar in, and it may just be that Nominet are stalling until something restrictive emanates from the EP - your MEP should be able to advise if you have the time or inclination to ask - I'm sure I haven't as I'm already sick of it all.

Anyway, full details here from the DMA who REALLY know about this stuff:

http://dma.org.uk/

Notice their bold suggestion that change is coming.

Anyway, the simple principle remains that Nominet have; by one virtue or another, an EXISTING RELATIONSHIP with all individuals and organisations that have subscribed to their namespace, and it is a matter of 'duty of care' to inform these subscribers about the serious implications of their plans, as far as I'm concerned. If they suggest otherwise, it's bollocks.

Let's look at a simple case of an implicit relationship: DNS. Doesn't get much easier really. And the argument that it's the registrars and not Nominet that have the required relationship to send a simple, informative and unobtrusive email is also - just bollocks.

I use the vernacular as punctuation rather than gratuitously.

 

[AssetDomains]

Can you imagine the resources and man hours you would need if you were to contact ten million domain owners about the change to the UK domain space and start a debate.

As said there's 10 million domains not different owners it shouldn't be beyond the wits of the people who run the UK namespace open there database select unique registrant email, name etc
Then send a series of emails inviting users to comment on the current consultation.
At the very least they should be contacting co.uk holders who will not have first choice to acquire the corresponding primary domain should the proposal go ahead as is

 

[Lucien Taylor]

Did the independent ever do a story about .uk as have not come across one yet, I have contacted there advertising department and offered to do an advertorial but have not heard back from them?

There seems to be a Chinese Wall between Independent editorial and legal. When I talked to the Independent newsdesk about the .uk proposals and invited them to the roundtable, the teenager? that answered the call suggested that I send her everything I've got and said that she'd look into it. I didn't get the impression that she particularly understood what a domain was, or the meaning of .co.uk. Their legal department seemed to agree that editorial were hopeless and arranged to attend the meeting without delay.

In our last discussion the legal people said they would like to be kept informed and even offered to intervene and get journalists involved if it looks like the proposal is going to go ahead without readership awareness.

I intend to get in touch when Thomas and Dickie announce how they intend to proceed.

 

[Pred]

is there a date nominet make a definite decision ior it goes to board for a decision?
if so is there then a period during which appeals are made?
cos to be honest I just want a decision either way clear cut as its killed aftermarket while things are up in air

truth be known I think they just played a game like ptb always do, made a silly proposal. changed it around to keep enough people happy, then will push through

dragging it on for this amountof time is hurting this market bigtime

 

[Paullas]

dragging it on for this amountof time is hurting this market bigtime

Maybe thats what they want as they have never liked the aftermarket have they.

 

[AssetDomains]

dragging it on for this amountof time is hurting this market bigtime

Maybe thats what they want as they have never liked the aftermarket have they.

The cynical part of me thinks this was boards return shot at the aftermarket. Which played a massive part in stopping V1 costing the board the massive bonuses they stood to gain.

What happened after V1 was stopped in its tracks

A proposal that massively dents the aftermarket values of domains caught after the announcement of V2 (and a fair few before then)

A proposal to change the rules on how expired domains are handled long term that will favour the big 20 massively

Could all be a coincidence I guess who knows

 

[Stephen]

Independent News

There seems to be a Chinese Wall between Independent editorial and legal. When I talked to the Independent newsdesk about the .uk proposals and invited them to the roundtable, the teenager? that answered the call suggested that I send her everything I've got and said that she'd look into it. I didn't get the impression that she particularly understood what a domain was, or the meaning of .co.uk. Their legal department seemed to agree that editorial were hopeless and arranged to attend the meeting without delay.

In our last discussion the legal people said they would like to be kept informed and even offered to intervene and get journalists involved if it looks like the proposal is going to go ahead without readership awareness.

I intend to get in touch when Thomas and Dickie announce how they intend to proceed.

Thanks for the update, due to time period involved I would suggest getting in touch with legal now, to request they get awareness of the issues with a story as soon as possible.

Is there a set event or time when the Director's will make it clear what they intend to do, as I doubt it, as the answer will always be, "we will wait for the consultation feedback and then decide what is best" (in a closed room with a vote and then proceed with .uk without any appeal or vote of members)

 

[Stephen]

the numbers?

As said there's 10 million domains not different owners it shouldn't be beyond the wits of the people who run the UK namespace open there database select unique registrant email, name etc
Then send a series of emails inviting users to comment on the current consultation.
At the very least they should be contacting co.uk holders who will not have first choice to acquire the corresponding primary domain should the proposal go ahead as is

Agree Nominet should be able to run such code easily.

However what you are suggesting would probably skew the feedback.

I wish (and have requested) Nominet would release the figures of how many unique registrant their are and details of how many of each tld will get/not get the .uk under the current .uk proposal.

With extra information on how many oldest .org.uk already own the .co.uk, so a proper view can be taken of alternative proposals.

 

[websaway]

is there a date nominet make a definite decision ior it goes to board for a decision?
if so is there then a period during which appeals are made?
cos to be honest I just want a decision either way clear cut as its killed aftermarket while things are up in air

truth be known I think they just played a game like ptb always do, made a silly proposal. changed it around to keep enough people happy, then will push through

dragging it on for this amountof time is hurting this market bigtime

which market ? I assume your talking about the secondary domain market.

But it doesn't start or end there.
The UK is heading out of recession and the last 12 months has been a time when the whole of the uk internet namespace could have pushed forward.
Web developers and marketers building into an upturn, producing liquidity into the whole industry and cementing confidence in the co.uk extension.

The search engine changes hit long tailed keyword domains hard and threatened to result in millions of names being dropped and a reduction in similar names being newly registered .

Has this whole debacle been a smokescreen ?

The only thing that could have been worse than introducing .uk was introducing it in the manner it has. No organisation could be so incompetent unless there is a hidden agenda. That agenda may have been to hide the real reduction in growth being anticipated, hiding it behind a massive upheaval to introduce .uk and then simply continue growth with the new .uk by selling the same uk namespace twice.
Problem solved ?

 

[Stephen]

Growth is that all their is?

...That agenda may have been to hide the real reduction in growth being anticipated, hiding it behind a massive upheaval to introduce .uk and then simply continue growth with the new .uk by selling the same uk namespace twice.
Problem solved ?

Agree that Nominet have been obsessed with growth. It was when it launched agreatplacetobe.co.uk Nominet promising growth 10% plus (which it has not delivered - for mainly reasons outside its control), the Registrars meeting with Director Peirce White stating it was about growth, the statements in Nominet's 2012 financial statements continually referring to relevance and growth, the .uk proposal background information referring the need to grow and their Q & A about the .uk.

Nominet take full credit for pushing the number of UK domains from 5m to 10m, rather than really understanding what factors drove up those registrations. SEO, EMD, portfolio creators, IP and domain name protection, UK entrepreneurial spirit, .co.uk being 50% the price of a .com, content of UK websites being more relevant to needs of UK consumers so a trend to use UK domains etc.

To keep up there inbuilt desire for growth rather than stepping back and looking at why and what are the real alternatives to a better UK namespace.

It is not about the numbers and for Nominet to say they have done a good job if release .uk and the number of UK domains goes to 15,000,000, is that what the UK namespace really needs?