2014 Board Election

[Murray]

I would imagine registrars are far more likely to immediately push domains to auction - this is far better for end users than them being hoarded for years.

I wonder what % of .com auction buys are end users and what % are domainers though.

The trouble with auctions is you have to know about them.

Occasionally I'm sure companies are happy that a domainer has sat on a domain for them and priced off competition, because if they're coming to buy it in 2014 then they would of had no chance in 2008 when it dropped and was auctioned off and sold to someone who would never sell it.

In that case the end user with the deepest pockets wins, as it would of been at auction all being fair and future non yet existent parties being involved

 

[monaghan]

I would imagine registrars are far more likely to immediately push domains to auction - this is far better for end users than them being hoarded for years.

It seems to me that its a good way to process dropped domains? Unless you're a drop catcher of course.

If these expired domains are valuable and the private drop catchers are not the right sales channel then surely it would be better for them to be sold via Nominet and raise further revenue for the Nominet Trust rather than lining the pockets of a different set of Nominet members? We're not really addressing the issue, just moving the cash from one set of members to another.

Why not remove from the TAG at 90 days instead of deletion from the register, put them on auction at www.NominetAuctions.UK for 30 days and take the cash away from all members, not selected members who don't have the ear of the decision makers!

 

[Retired_Member38]

I'd far rather Nominet auctioned them - I've mentioned that before. It seems stupid for Nominet to just let someone else hoover up this excess cash.

I don't really care who auctions them though, as long as they're auctioned. Too many times I've seen domains drop that are worth a few hundred £... someone catches them and they appear (or maybe disappear into would be a fairer phrase!) in a portfolio listed for £2k+... so nobody ever properly uses it.

 

[Stephen]

fixed price?

If these expired domains are valuable and the private drop catchers are not the right sales channel then surely it would be better for them to be sold via Nominet and raise further revenue for the Nominet Trust rather than lining the pockets of a different set of Nominet members? We're not really addressing the issue, just moving the cash from one set of members to another.

Why not remove from the TAG at 90 days instead of deletion from the register, put them on auction at www.NominetAuctions.UK for 30 days and take the cash away from all members, not selected members who don't have the ear of the decision makers!

I think under the current system it was possible for somebody who really wanted a .co.uk domain, to go around and register with lots of drop catches and obtain the domain at a fixed price.

That option will go, unless the big registrars change there business model to accommodate fixed price?

So I don't think it is, just moving the money around.

I believe Nominet should have set up a form of reservation system for dropping names for those with a legitimate claim on the name, so avoiding drop catchers and big registrars taking a chunk of money for something that clearly should belong to an organization, if it was uncontested.

 

[monaghan]

You can't ensure a domain is in use just because it is sold at auction rather than caught by a private catcher as an investment.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I believe Nominet should have set up a form of reservation system for dropping names for those with a legitimate claim on the name, so avoiding drop catchers and big registrars taking a chunk of money for something that clearly should belong to an organization, if it was uncontested.

If someone has a legitimate claim to a domain then the DRS option was open to them - they didn't even need to wait on it dropping.

If they couldn't have DRS'd it then they arguably don't have a right over anyone else to grab it when it does drop surely?

 

[grantw]

I don't really care who auctions them though, as long as they're auctioned. Too many times I've seen domains drop that are worth a few hundred £... someone catches them and they appear (or maybe disappear into would be a fairer phrase!) in a portfolio listed for £2k+... so nobody ever properly uses it.

You only need to look at namejet to see that a large amount of the auctioned domains go to resellers. The domains then appear for sale, often at a much larger inflated rate due to the inflated cost of purchase. Most regular people don't understand what happens with dropping domains and don't even know they're at auction, UK auctions would more than likely go the same way.

Grant

 

[Retired_Member38]

I think the ones with real value will be far more likely to end up in the hands of an end user - and that can only be a good thing for the UK internet space as a whole surely.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Paragraphs!!!!

I'm saying if (to use a completely random example) if something high value like custard.co.uk dropped currently, it might end up caught by Denys then priced at way more than a realistic market price for it is. So it ends up never really used.

If a domain registrar is allowed to grab it and auction it off before it drops, I think its more likely that it ends up bought by someone who actually plans to do something worthwhile with it. Domainers aren't likely to be able to pay to end user prices so its not going to fall into a portfolio to be never seen again.

 

[websaway]

Paragraphs!!!!

I'm saying if (to use a completely random example) if something high value like custard.co.uk dropped currently, it might end up caught by Denys then priced at way more than a realistic market price for it is. So it ends up never really used.

If a domain registrar is allowed to grab it and auction it off before it drops, I think its more likely that it ends up bought by someone who actually plans to do something worthwhile with it. Domainers aren't likely to be able to pay to end user prices so its not going to fall into a portfolio to be never seen again.

Makes sense.

 

[Brassneck]

Makes sense.

Makes sense to me too!

 

[Retired_Member38]

So go on, explain why it makes sense to you (and webs away) rather than me tooing.

Because domainers will eventually have cashflow problems if they keep paying £xxxx (or more) for good quality domains that dropped and were then auctioned. Sure they might buy some... but a lot more should go from the auction straight to legitimate end users.

Its one thing to load a list of domains into your catching script... its another ball game to pony up £5k or whatever to add it to your portfolio.

 

[Brassneck]

So go on, explain why it makes sense to you (and webs away) rather than me tooing.

see - http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/483799-post79.html

 

[Retired_Member42]

So go on, explain why it makes sense to you (and webs away) rather than me tooing.

It makes sense because the vast majority of domain name investors want to either drop catch or buy things dirt cheap before slapping a big price tag on it. You seldom see domain investors paying £XXXX for a name with a view to sell for higher £XXXX.

As soon as (custard.co.uk) starts going into the £XXX, most domain investors will back off if they don't have 1) An immediate use or 2) An end user in mind. In my experience, domain investors want the quick and easy profits. Not big investment for big return.

Don't under estimate the marketing power of the big registrars also. Who knows how they'll market their options. They might be spamming existing end users to come and check out the auction. There are also a lot of end user buyers who monitor domains dropping that they want to use. I frequently get mailed by end users when I drop catch a domain because they want it and have missed it etc.

 

[Murray]

Domainlore has had a lot of good names put on their pretty quickly after being caught.

Most are bought by domainers aren't they?.

 

[Brassneck]

Domainlore has had a lot of good names put on their pretty quickly after being caught.

Most are bought by domainers aren't they?.

But they seem to be sold at prices where there would still be good returns if an end user was found subsequently.

 

[websaway]

It doesn't because he hasn't explained *when* he believes that will occur.

He can only surmise.

 

[Retired_Member42]

So why won't that be the case with other auctions? How are all these end users with money suddenly going to find out in advance, and then be up ready and willing to bid and win these forthcoming registrar auctions? I don't think they will be as evidenced by domainlore and the Nominet auction I cited. There will just be a diminishing number of domain name investors bidding on and winning the majority based on supply and demand.

The difference is DL and the market will set the price for the domain. It won't be just priced at £10,000 because the catcher can afford to hold onto it for 10 years waiting for that one off, deep-pocket buyer.

If one of the big investors bought every single domain listed on DL currently, how much do you think they'd cost you buying from them tomorrow?

I agree that end users finding the auction will be tough unless the registrars properly market them to similar domain owners and so on but they'll still be a lot cheaper to buy via auction than paying a portfolio price tag. Regardless who is bidding.

 

[AssetDomains]

I don't agree it will magically bring about more end users most don't even get domains. I've been quite proactive contacting end users on names I've listed on domainlore even got a fair bit of interest with stencil.co.uk I believe one might have been bidding it still ended up going to an investor for low xxx
I don't think most end users understand how names can be valuable for there business.

All I see happening is the good names end up in the hands of investors with deep deep pockets who have no pressure to move them on until they get the price they want. They will just factor in the higher acquiring fees into a price they are happy to take.

 

[Brassneck]

So why won't that be the case with other auctions? How are all these end users with money suddenly going to find out in advance, and then be up ready and willing to bid and win these forthcoming registrar auctions? I don't think they will be as evidenced by domainlore and the Nominet auction I cited. There will just be a diminishing number of domain name investors bidding on and winning the majority based on supply and demand.

Well nobody can be sure about what will happen. But I guess that the likes of 1&1, godaddy etc would have the financial clout to market such auctions if they wanted. Also, through there domain availability tools I would presume they would take the opportunity to alert possible end users to the fact that a name may become available for auction in the near future.

Of course it might make no difference at all. For me, I think the idea of auctions - even if there are many sales in the XX range at least starts to make it a normal thing for people to try to buy a domain on the secondary market. That might just kick start the market at all levels.