Who's Holding BTC?

[ian]

Semantics aside. Asset values are determined by rarity and supply and demand. My question was really around the fact that gold cannot be replicated but a virtual currency can, that's ok if something underpins the value, but was try to find out if anything other than mostly speculation dictates it's value. Basically seeing what makes it different to any other pyramid scheme.

I understand what you are saying, but by definition, gold is a pyramid scheme too; the scarcity is controlled by governments alone to maintain value levels; they could flood the market with fresh gold if they wanted, until a time when mining it is no longer cost efficient. Bitcoin on the other hand is distributed at a designed volume until there is no more and this cannot be manipulated; equally Bitcoin has first mover advantage with a distribution and technology hard to match (similar to the Internet). Where they are similar is that both have alternatives, gold has competing assets silver arguable has more value; minerals in space may eventually be mined. They all do well from being a superior asset.

One thing no one can deny or ignore however is that fiat is being constantly printed, debt increasing, and deflation resulting in the value of our money being worth a few ticks less each year. Gold, Bitcoin etc, are all hedges against this.

 

[websaway]

I understand what you are saying, but by definition, gold is a pyramid scheme too; the scarcity is controlled by governments alone to maintain value levels; they could flood the market with fresh gold if they wanted, until a time when mining it is no longer cost efficient. Bitcoin on the other hand is distributed at a designed volume until there is no more and this cannot be manipulated; equally Bitcoin has first mover advantage with a distribution and technology hard to match (similar to the Internet). Where they are similar is that both have alternatives, gold has competing assets silver arguable has more value; minerals in space may eventually be mined. They all do well from being a superior asset.

One thing no one can deny or ignore however is that fiat is being constantly printed, debt increasing, and deflation resulting in the value of our money being worth a few ticks less each year. Gold, Bitcoin etc, are all hedges against this.

Gold of course is finite and that's why i don't think comparisons stand up. The argument seems to be that nothing can compete with bitcoin although no suggestion as to what it's for other than as a profit making investment. But my question is say, in the event of governments bringing in laws to outlaw it as an investment what would happen to an investors money. Nothing has sadly occurred to diminish my fears from outset that this is simply a very elaborate and engenious ponzy scheme and with the last ones to be mined in the very distant future and most lucrative returns being predicted to be in 10 or 20 years I suppose we will just have to wait and see, while the price goes up and down as new people are drawn in and the savvy get rich.

 

[Admin]

thanks, so for now the cost of replicating it is a barrier to new entrants. Certainly when any pyramid scheme that I looked at in the nineties, that was always the argument for guaranteed success . And always a comparison that had been an overwhelming success.
Still nothing actually underpins the currency because as I understand it one doesn't get shares in the "multi-billion decentralised server network" should the currency revert back to zero.

I have zero interest in converting or recruiting you or anyone else.... Don't like it ... Don't buy it or use it. I'm here to share my knowledge for those that are not anti. I don't want to get into a boring debate or tell you how much money I've made

 

[websaway]

I have zero interest in converting or recruiting you or anyone else.... Don't like it ... Don't buy it or use it. I'm here to share my knowledge for those that are not anti. I don't want to get into a boring debate or tell you how much money I've made

With respect, you don't know if I hold any, so a little presumptuous based on my initial question, what underpins any guarantee on the bitcoin currency. The fact that it has all the underlying qualities of a pyramid scheme is just my opinion. When you've seen it before you can't help but relate it.

 

[Admin]

With respect, you don't know if I hold any, so a little presumptuous based on my initial question, what underpins any guarantee on the bitcoin currency. The fact that it has all the underlying qualities of a pyramid scheme is just my opinion. When you've seen it before you can't help but relate it.

So... Do you hold... As per thread title?

 

[Admin]

@Admin - Do you disagree that Bitcoin has a identity crisis or do you disagree that BTC doesn't currently stand up practically?

Not sure why the cap reply is funny; as that's a fact. That's not an opinion. There is technically no hard cap on the amount of BTC that can exist.

Do you hold BTC?

 

[Murray]

The value of anything is supply vs demand

We are all entitled to think something is precious or worthless but our opinion wont change what it's being exchanged for

People in countries like Turkey and Venezuela have experienced severe inflation in their own currencies and seem to appreciate having Bitcoin as an option to store wealth; they might have preferred something more traditional like gold but I imagine in a crisis physical gold is hard to get hold of

Bitcoin unlike other traditional virtual assets can't be frozen and is more difficult to confiscate by the state, perfect in a time of fear

 

[Murray]

Even if it was impossible to confiscate, that's largely irrelevant, as the side effects still exist.

With centralised banking governments can change and impose new laws very easily

If they wanted to confiscate gold or bitcoin to enforce that is a totally different animal

 

[ian]

It bemused me that Bitcoin it considered the villain by some, yet are happy with governments stealing money from you. I subscribe to the freedom Bitcoin has from this regime.

Each to their own opinion though, I respect them; I'm in it for the long term gains and consider BTC to have a far reaching road ahead.

 

[ian]

What freedom does Bitcoin offer compared to cash? (Freedoms that will not likely change with regulation, I should add.)

Freedom from inflation and deflation for a start; you can't just print more. Regulations can only force a direction to an extent; I think world governments have by now realised that Bitcoin cannot be stopped.

 

[lazarus]

It can be changed if there's ever a need/reason to and enough people say yes to it. More BTC can be printed, so it's not free from inflation/deflation.

No holder of Bitcoin is ever going to agree to that and the more you hold the more you disagree.
It's the Turkey voting for Christmas thing. And there is no logical reason for a need to create more.

It's true that people are uncomfortable with China hosting 65% of the hashing power. But it would still would be an impossible task for the Chinese government to organise a 51% attack as so many miners are operating illegally.

 

[Highway]

Anything that *can* be regulated through the application of KYC / AML rules is doomed long term. That's not really much of an opinion, it's just factual. Gold is truly fungible, and unfortunately, Bitcoin is not. And no, I'm not at all interested in gold, other than as an accessory.

 

[Highway]

How exactly do you think that the Silk Road bitcoins got chased down by the feds? BTC's ledger is like dinosaur footprints. BTC is going to have to go legit in order to be paypal etc friendly... can you imagine a dark web user trading their BTC through paypal and not worrying about a knock on the door in however many years? Bitmex got raided recently and Arthur Hayes might never get out of prison once the thing is done And that was supposed to be a legit CEX

 

[JMI]

I think there is still tremendous upside potential to Bitcoin in the short to medium term, but the problem is Governments are now strongly looking at their own digital currencies. Take China, they have already rolled out their own digital currency in four major cites and are going to use it the Beijing olympics in 2022.

China has a very strict regime they're not going to be happy about people taking money out of the system into cryptos, they could easily make the use of Bitcoin illegal in the future.

Once Governments around the world all begin to adopt their own digital currency I see this as a big problem as they won't want Bitcoin as competition and it could become illegal. I expect the Bitcoin lovers to strongly disagree but its valid problem right around the corner for today's cryptos, ignore and carry on with a utopian Bitcoin world vision at your peril..

 

[dee]

I think there is still tremendous upside potential to Bitcoin in the short to medium term, but the problem is Governments are now strongly looking at their own digital currencies. Take China, they have already rolled out their own digital currency in four major cites and are going to use it the Beijing olympics in 2022.

China has a very strict regime they're not going to be happy about people taking money out of the system into cryptos, they could easily make the use of Bitcoin illegal in the future.

Once Governments around the world all begin to adopt their own digital currency I see this as a big problem as they won't want Bitcoin as competition and it could become illegal. I expect the Bitcoin lovers to strongly disagree but its valid problem right around the corner for today's cryptos, ignore and carry on with a utopian Bitcoin world vision at your peril..

I don't think the common thinking is that it will replace currency. It's not nearly nimble enough, and transaction fees can be high. But as the original, and most trusted (well.... known at least ) crypto, its becoming a store of wealth, similar to a phsyical store of wealth such as gold or silver etc.

 

[JMI]

I don't think the common thinking is that it will replace currency..

You must be kidding right? The people don't get a say in this, one dream of all governments is to kill "cash" and turn everything digital. By doing so overnight they can tax, monitor and control of 99% of the population, how else are they going to get out of this endless money printing mess compounded with 0% interest rates until the cows come home.

 

[websaway]

I don't think the common thinking is that it will replace currency. It's not nearly nimble enough, and transaction fees can be high. But as the original, and most trusted (well.... known at least ) crypto, its becoming a store of wealth, similar to a phsyical store of wealth such as gold or silver etc.

I would have thought a store for wealth would have to have some guarantee that it could not reduce to zero by someone else removing your money in the future. If you put your wealth in at 18000 and a year later it was 3000 that's a big hit to take , why would anyone want to put hard earned legally made money into such a scheme for any other reason than to make enormous profits with predictions of a price of 500,000 in the future.

 

[dee]

You must be kidding right? The people don't get a say in this, one dream of all governments is to kill "cash" and turn everything digital. By doing so overnight they can tax, monitor and control of 99% of the population, how else are they going to get out of this endless money printing mess compounded with 0% interest rates until the cows come home.

Im saying I doubt bitcoin will end up being the common currency. I think we're rapidly heading towards a cashless society and agree 100% with what you say. Bitcoin is no where near the right thing though to fill that gap. As you say... government will roll their own

 

[dee]

I would have thought a store for wealth would have to have some guarantee that it could not reduce to zero by someone else removing your money in the future. If you put your wealth in at 18000 and a year later it was 3000 that's a big hit to take , why would anyone want to put hard earned legally made money into such a scheme for any other reason than to make enormous profits with predictions of a price of 500,000 in the future.

Agreed, and im one of the people looking for a payout. People are buying it though and starting to keep it.

 

[websaway]

Agreed, and im one of the people looking for a payout. People are buying it though and starting to keep it.

Any idea if it has to work within the money laundering laws ?