Who to backorder with?

[monaghan]

Alex (Monaghan) has caught a couple of (imo) £x,xxx names for me in the past

So many times I've recieved a catch request and thought "If only I'd looked at my list earlier"

 

[rawkinrich]

This is what bugs me about the whole drop catching scenario: What's to stop private or public drop catchers that you've employed just reging it for themselves via proxy or private Whois? Has any one ever had a company or individual catch a domain that is a premium .co.uk (worth 5K or so)? If so which ones?

It just doesn't make sense - no win no $40 fee - yet they would pass up the chance to reg a $5K domain themselves just because someone put an order in?

Many of these companies also sell domains too so I'm struggling to see how these conflicting interests are reconciled.

If anyone is able to offer me some reassurance or further insights I'd be very much obliged.

Thanks

This is a quality post, and I'm sure it goes through the minds of those who are looking to catch names.

 

[Edwin]

The public catchers have all caught decent names for me from time to time (well, obviously they catch OK names all the time otherwise I wouldn't bother to go for them - I mean x,xxx+ decent).

I believe the thinking is something like this (for the public catchers that also drop-catch for themselves):-
A) I'll book up everything I can think of that's really top-notch
B) The "wisdom of crowds" will find (and be interested in) many, many more other names than I possibly can find on my own (since there are no public drop lists). Better to get 30 quid per name (or whatever it is) that I would never have been able to go for anyway (since I hadn't spotted it was dropping)

30 pounds is always better than nothing. And a whole lot of 30 pound payments quickly add up.

Assume that drop-catchers who don't catch for themselves (if there are any) have decided that B) is good enough. For example, if they catch 10 names a day for other people, that's over 100,000 pounds a year in income - and they don't have to sit there trying to flog names day in, day out to earn that! If their system is automated enough, that's the closest to the holy grail of passive income you're probably going to get...

 

[afx]

This is what bugs me about the whole drop catching scenario: What's to stop private or public drop catchers that you've employed just reging it for themselves via proxy or private Whois? Has any one ever had a company or individual catch a domain that is a premium .co.uk (worth 5K or so)? If so which ones?

It just doesn't make sense - no win no $40 fee - yet they would pass up the chance to reg a $5K domain themselves just because someone put an order in?

Many of these companies also sell domains too so I'm struggling to see how these conflicting interests are reconciled.

If anyone is able to offer me some reassurance or further insights I'd be very much obliged.


Thanks

The problem with your post is you've wrongly assumed the top catchers wouldn't know about the name your after, they most certainly would so your point is moot.

 

[DC3000]

The problem with your post is you've wrongly assumed the top catchers wouldn't know about the name your after, they most certainly would so your point is moot.

Whether they know about the domain or not still does not change the dilema of putting self interest or client interest first which was the only point I raised in my post.

Just to be clear on this, my post is not in any way meant as an accusation nor insinuation towards dropcatchers. I said I'm keen to know how the process can be rationally justified and what the other domainers have experienced.

I think Edwin's constructive explanation is the most logical one as it gives the droppers long term incentive for passive income and peace of mind whilst hitting a few personally for themselves.

Monaghan, thanks for your honest input. No doubt I'll be in touch

Thanks

 

[monaghan]

You need to have trust between supplier and customer, after all the "no win no fee" catcher is also trusting that after routinely using a large percentage of his DAC quota to catch your names that you will be paying your bill

Bottom line is that members here would soon rat out those who used the front of a public catching service to build cherry-picked personal catch lists.

 

[Edwin]

The way most of the dropcatchers I deal with approach it is that I send them a list and they tell me what they already have booked and what I can book for myself. You may be thinking "hey, that lets them cherry-pick" but the reality is that I am sending lists 3-4 weeks out or more, and 95%+ of the names I want I am first-in-line for. And the ones they've already got booked are rarely the biggest prizes.

Of course any idiot can run a list of tip-top one word search terms against the DAC (and the drop catchers AREN'T idiots) so it doesn't come as a surprise that the "jackpot" names have already been booked before I get there...

... likewise, some catchers automatically "block" all 3-letter domains for themselves, again because it's super easy for them to run the entire list of possibles without anything falling through the cracks. I can see how easily they can find the names of their own accord, so I don't begrudge them the fact that I can never get to book 3-letter drops with them.

 

[afx]

Whether they know about the domain or not still does not change the dilema of putting self interest or client interest first which was the only point I raised in my post.

Just to be clear on this, my post is not in any way meant as an accusation nor insinuation towards dropcatchers. I said I'm keen to know how the process can be rationally justified and what the other domainers have experienced.

I think Edwin's constructive explanation is the most logical one as it gives the droppers long term incentive for passive income and peace of mind whilst hitting a few personally for themselves.

Monaghan, thanks for your honest input. No doubt I'll be in touch

Thanks

I wasn't suggesting you were insinuating anything. My only point is no private catcher is in the business of taking 30 or 50 quid to catch you or anyone else a 5K name just so they can be seen to be "putting the clients interests first" as you put it. In all likelyhood they will be going for it themselves. Yes there have been examples of public and private catchers securing A grade names for other people, but this is the exception not the norm.

Ethics was not the only point you made, you were specifically asking about catchers picking up names for other people that later sell for 5K and who best to use for this. Catchers who have been in this game for years and spent 1000's of man hours coding do not operate as charities.

 

[Edwin]

I wasn't suggesting you were insinuating anything. My only point is no private catcher is in the business of taking 30 or 50 quid to catch you or anyone else a 5K name just so they can be seen to be "putting the clients interests first" as you put it. In all likelyhood they will be going for it themselves. Yes there have been examples of public and private catchers securing A grade names for other people, but this is the exception not the norm.

As I showed previously, even with a conservative 10 names a day caught on behalf of clients, a public catcher could easily be grossing 100K a year (probably 95% of which is profit). The larger/more popular catchers are likely to be catching many times that many domains since different people are after different domains. So it's not unrealistic that some of them may be grossing 250K+.

At a certain level of success, it's probably worth passing up the opportunity to privately retain all but the A++ quality names in favour of the steady, virtually effortless stream of revenue to be gained from catching for others (the more you let "slip through your fingers" the more other people are likely to be willing to book with you).

After all, even if you catch a 5K name, you then still have to sell it. As we all know, domains don't sell themselves, and to realise "true value" for a name may take a lot of time and effort. In contrast, the revenue stream from catching for others is all pre-packaged (once you've caught the names, the money's effectively yours - minus a few % for deals that go bad from time to time as unreliable customers stiff you on paying for the catches).

In other words, catching for others is a very effective high-speed way of converting drops into cash, if you're good at it - it's almost like pulling money straight out of the air, since every "product" (caught domain) you can "make" (catch) is instantly sold. Some catchers have billed me x,xxx on a good month - and I'm just one of many customers they service.

And to a certain degree time is definitely money. A 100K near-passive income may be a lot more appealing than earning twice that but having to work a full regular working week to do so.

 

[DC3000]

I wasn't suggesting you were insinuating anything. My only point is no private catcher is in the business of taking 30 or 50 quid to catch you or anyone else a 5K name just so they can be seen to be "putting the clients interests first" as you put it. In all likelyhood they will be going for it themselves. Yes there have been examples of public and private catchers securing A grade names for other people, but this is the exception not the norm.

Ethics was not the only point you made, you were specifically asking about catchers picking up names for other people that later sell for 5K and who best to use for this. Catchers who have been in this game for years and spent 1000's of man hours coding do not operate as charities.

This is exactly what I was querying - based on your rationale, there is no incentive for them to catch any obviously good domains for anyone. Based on Edwin's logic - there is.

The consensus is that trust is a key factor but I always think that there has to be an incentive for this altruistic or seemingly charitable approach.

I agree with Edwin that a semi-automated work process (i.e -core business: customer service) has to be preferable in the long run and based on the above calculations it can be a highly lucrative business. Reputation is important to sustain this long term semi-passive business and so it makes (financial) sense to play it by the book - even if in the short term it seems like madness.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your thoughts and input. Much obliged.

 

[davedevelopment]

I think Edwin hits the nail on the head, if the public catchers are getting things right, they'll be making enough dough to not bother catching themselves. I've considered setting up on my own to catch publicly, but maybe having a limited number of members that will book a lot of names. 10 Edwins would probably keep the money coming in, while still keeping the service competitive.

 

[Edwin]

If you think about it, the following 2 scenarios make the most sense (in both cases, assuming you're pretty good at catching domains. If not, game over either way):-

A) Drop catch exclusively (or near-exclusively) for others - if you want a steady, reliable income stream and your strengths lie mainly on the technical side (fine tuning the catching scripts, optimising the path to Nominet's servers etc.)

B) Drop catch exclusively for yourself - if you want sporadic but potentially large payouts, and your strengths lie in sales and marketing

 

[doodlebug]

I have booked about 100 with Domian monster and all failed on .co.uks
I think I need a private catcher and reckon this is the best solution.

NB* to be fair to DM most of the names were quality names which would have had plenty of catchers working on.

 

[davedevelopment]

NB* to be fair to DM most of the names were quality names which would have had plenty of catchers working on.

This is also the problem with a public catching service. If I ran a service, I'd try and make it clear that it wouldn't be able to catch the very obviously top tier names and that customers would have more success booking obscure, less obvious and middle tier names.

 

[Edwin]

I've booked 1,384 domains with DomainMonster over the years, and they caught 90 domains for me.

 

[foz]

I think the estimation for a retail or public catcher to earn £100K per annum to be over the top. Daily I see what the different TAG's get and rarely witness 10 per day (perhaps only caught.co.uk, but Chris offers a discount for volume).

£25K to £50K would be more realistic (based on £25 per domain profit margin).

 

[Edwin]

I think the estimation for a retail or public catcher to earn £100K per annum to be over the top. Daily I see what the different TAG's get and rarely witness 10 per day (perhaps only caught.co.uk, but Chris offers a discount for volume).

£25K to £50K would be more realistic (based on £25 per domain profit margin).

I think that really depends on if they're going for names of "across the board" interest i.e. if they have a diversified client base. If they're going for stuff that would not at first glance seem to be of high value, it may well not be on anyone's drop list (but was noticed by that particular client because it's their niche/specialist subject/pet project/etc)

 

[Skinner]

The big issue is public catchers either have a live or semi-live booking system, do you csan run your list thru their auto systems and see whats booked.

Leaving no time for the registrar/catcher to cherry pick the names.

If you can't trust your catcher, find another

Edit

I book quite a few like this

but was noticed by that particular client because it's their niche/specialist subject/pet project/etc)

 

[foz]

I think that really depends on if they're going for names of "across the board" interest i.e. if they have a diversified client base. If they're going for stuff that would not at first glance seem to be of high value, it may well not be on anyone's drop list (but was noticed by that particular client because it's their niche/specialist subject/pet project/etc)

In your case I understand you book with several catchers so your picks would result in a diluted success rate from each individual TAG's perspective.

 

[Edwin]

In your case I understand you book with several catchers so your picks would result in a diluted success rate from each individual TAG's perspective.

My assumption is that if I don't book them, somebody else probably will - so all that will happen if I don't book across the board is the number of names that I get will go down.