.uk Whois changes (22nd May)

[Sean]

Just to add, discounting Sedo sales, I've never once used Escrow and have always told buyers that I will trust that they're honest and transfer the domain to them before payment, on the promise that immediate payment will be made once the transfer is confirmed. Some buyers say it isn't necessary and pay up front, the majority get a lot more relaxed which usually makes things move much faster.

Without wanting to tempt fate, I've been doing this since 1996 and have never lost a domain.

 

[Edwin]

With GDRP throwing a spanner into the mix, surely it's better to always go via Nominet's £10+VAT transfer process when dealing with novice third parties?

That way, they have the reassurance of dealing with a different arms-length company, not just with the seller telling them "oh yeah, your domain's been transferred now". From experience, Nominet have always been willing to hand hold a buyer through the transfer process if they have any questions or get stuck. Pretty cheap peace of mind.

(Of course, domainer to domainer transactions are different - goes without saying. I'm talking about end-user buyers.)

 

[ian]

That's assuming the buyer has any clue who Nominet are. I've not come across many that have (from outside the industry of course), so that sometimes requires some explanation too....fortunately none of them have yet said "aren't they are parking sensor company?".

 

[scottmccloud]

With GDRP throwing a spanner into the mix, surely it's better to always go via Nominet's £10+VAT transfer process when dealing with novice third parties?

That way, they have the reassurance of dealing with a different arms-length company, not just with the seller telling them "oh yeah, your domain's been transferred now". From experience, Nominet have always been willing to hand hold a buyer through the transfer process if they have any questions or get stuck. Pretty cheap peace of mind.

I always do this, £12 is a small price to pay for the strong trust signal it gives end users.

 

[Sean]

You're a right bunch of drama queens

 

[Edwin]

That's assuming the buyer has any clue who Nominet are. I've not come across many that have (from outside the industry of course), so that sometimes requires some explanation too....fortunately none of them have yet said "aren't they are parking sensor company?".

I usually say something like "They're the domain name equivalent of the Land Registry. They record who owns every domain name." Seems to satisfy people.

 

[Systreg]

@Edwin, with most of my end user sales on Sedo, when I send the £10 + VAT Nominet transfer, in nearly all cases, the buyer leaves the domain on my tag, and Sedo wont pay out if it's still on the sellers personal tag.

I can either accept the handshake or decline it, if I decline, they'll have to get a refund from Nominet for the failed transfer, and then I have to waste time sending a 2nd transfer, and despite telling the Sedo rep to tell the buyer to choose another tag, on more than one occasion, the buyer has left it on my tag during the 2nd transfer as well.

My solution now is, when they leave a domain on my tag, I accept the handshake and detag it straight away, that way, my tag is off the Who-Is and then Sedo close the sale, and yes, before anyone says it, I know they'll probably have to pay another tenner to get it retagged to another registrar, not my problem.

 

[ian]

I usually say something like "They're the domain name equivalent of the Land Registry. They record who owns every domain name." Seems to satisfy people.

When really, we know they are much more than that

 

[Murray]

The details of the process are unimportant so don't get bogged down in them. Just ask for the minimum information required to facilitate the transfer and tell them that you'll request Nominet to transfer the domain into their name.

But I will need their registration details?

Which are sometimes different than the ones they give me for the invoice

I guess I could say a white lie that I'm giving them to pass on to Nominet to initiate the transfer, but it just sounds/seems dodgy

I guess if they enter the details through the Nominet transfer emails and can see it's in their Nominet account + the whois is different (even if they can't see their name) that will have to be enough

 

[Edwin]

But I will need their registration details?

Which are sometimes different than the ones they give me for the invoice

I guess I could say a white lie that I'm giving them to pass on to Nominet to initiate the transfer, but it just sounds/seems dodgy

I guess if they enter the details through the Nominet transfer emails and can see it's in their Nominet account + the whois is different (even if they can't see their name) that will have to be enough

Yes. I tried the free transfer route a few times when Nominet first introduced it, but it quickly starts to sound more complicated than just having Nominet shoot them over an email. Especially since the majority of buyers seem to be business folk not techies.

I prime them to let them know it it is coming: "Nominet will email you directly with a link you can click to take over the legal ownership of ________ domain name." I also explain that "As soon as you complete the transfer at Nominet, the domain name is yours."

So far, touch wood, it's worked well for several hundred transfers and the buyers have been comfortable doing it that way. For the sake of £10+VAT you can't really go wrong. And if the sale's cheap, you could always negotiate that they will pay for the transfer so that you don't lose out.

 

[Sean]

But I will need their registration details?

Which are sometimes different than the ones they give me for the invoice

I guess I could say a white lie that I'm giving them to pass on to Nominet to initiate the transfer, but it just sounds/seems dodgy

I guess if they enter the details through the Nominet transfer emails and can see it's in their Nominet account + the whois is different (even if they can't see their name) that will have to be enough

Why are you even mentioning the word "dodgy"? They want to buy a domain, you're happy to sell it and need certain details to facilitate a transfer which you request via Nominet, the company that maintains the registry. Where does it get dodgy?

 

[Edwin]

Why are you even mentioning the word "dodgy"? They want to buy a domain, you're happy to sell it and need certain details to facilitate a transfer which you request via Nominet, the company that maintains the registry. Where does it get dodgy?

"Dodgy" might not be the right word. But I've had plenty of cases where the "buyer" turned out not to be the ultimate owner of the domain, because I was approached by their web designer, hosting company, SEO firm, lawyer etc. i.e. a middle man they trusted to conduct the deal on their behalf. I only found out after the domain name was transferred who actually ended up with it (the invoice was in the name of, and paid by, the middle man). All completely normal and legit.

So it could cause a certain amount of friction if you insist you need to know who will actually end up owning the domain name before you're able to transfer it...

 

[Murray]

Why are you even mentioning the word "dodgy"? They want to buy a domain, you're happy to sell it and need certain details to facilitate a transfer which you request via Nominet, the company that maintains the registry. Where does it get dodgy?

Because they have to trust me and they don't know me from Adam

 

[Sean]

Because they have to trust me and they don't know me from Adam

So you're saying they've trusted you enough to send payment but they don't trust you to send their name, e-mail and address?

 

[Edwin]

So you're saying they've trusted you enough to send payment but they don't trust you to send their name, e-mail and address?

The point is, they may not trust you enough to send you their client's name, email and address (you need theirs for the invoice, so that's easy).

 

[Sean]

The point is, they may not trust you enough to send you their client's name, email and address (you need theirs for the invoice, so that's easy).

Edwin, with respect, you're describing edge case here. I transfer between 15 and 30 domains most months and can't remember the last time I had a problem but at the end of the day people do what works best for them. The original discussion was about finding a solution that enabled the registrant to be shown in the whois and we've found one.

 

[Edwin]

Yeah, it’s a “your mileage may vary” situation. I reckon perhaps one in 7 or 8 of our sales is to an “agent” of the ultimate buyer of some kind. So it’s not a huge number of cases, but it’s common enough I prefer not to add the possible extra friction into the transaction.

 

[Sam]

Edwin, with respect, you're describing edge case here. I transfer between 15 and 30 domains most months and can't remember the last time I had a problem but at the end of the day people do what works best for them. The original discussion was about finding a solution that enabled the registrant to be shown in the whois and we've found one.

Well i dont see how your doing that as you only have around 30 odd names....

 

[Murray]

I didn't realise name + address were separate options

Any benefit to showing address do you think?

 

[Edwin]

I didn't realise name + address were separate options

Any benefit to showing address do you think?

Shows you’re UK based? Probably won’t make much difference, but if you’re opting into the Whois anyway I guess you might as well.

Plus over the years I’ve sold a handful of names (only a handful - I’m not going to exaggerate the significance) off of physical, snail mail enquiries. Don’t know why, but for some reason a few people still feel more comfortable with paper.