.uk V2.0 Questions to Nominet & their Answers

[Nigel]

Agreed, the .sch does clearly identify as a school, but why shouldn't the school be able to get st-maryscofe.uk? If they had registered the .org.uk or .co.uk at the time, then they would be able to get it via the proposals, that still wouldn't clear up the confusion over the organisation behind the domain which is why we shouldn't be dropping the current naming convention, if anything we should be opening up more options under .uk not restricting them.

Agreed and don't have a problem with a school taking a domain like that (even though it would be far better for them to have the word school, college etc in the domain name or sch in the extension) - my major concern is the way prime geo domains could be taken by .sch.uk owners even though they'll have little use for the domains. Perhaps nominet like the way this will wrestle prime geos away from portfolio owners.

Might I add that this situation doesn't affect us too much as we never purchased a lot of .co.uk geos. We do have quite a nice one that will be lost to the .org.uk owner under nominet's plans - but its appearing on Jon's list so could be lost to the .sch.uk owner.

 

[foz]

Does anyone know who's buying what GLTDs and what they are buying them for, as mentioned a lot of big companies will be buying their own for brand purposes, but what about generics, for example "Movies"? I would suspect it would be investors who buy generic names, and then will probably reserve the best names and sell them off for a premium to make a profit. I don't think people would be able to register really good names at a reasonable price.

A lot will be "captured", so registering one will be out of the question.

 

[markb]

Even if amazon and google buy their gtlds, I would expect them to carry on using .com for the us and .co.uk for the uk. most of the major companies use the .co.uk for their uk website, bing, yahoo, google, amazon, bbc and thousands more. what's going to happen if the .uk comes out? Their going to be unsure wether to stay on the .co.uk, move to .uk, or move somewhere else because of the confusion. bringing the .uk extension out is probably the largest mistake nominet can make. It's only my opinion, but I don't think it's going to mprove anything, except maybe more initial money for nominet and domain portfolio owners. businesses are just going to have extra money to pay out for no benefits.

 

[jonbyrne]

Agreed, the .sch does clearly identify as a school, but why shouldn't the school be able to get st-maryscofe.uk? If they had registered the .org.uk or .co.uk at the time, then they would be able to get it via the proposals, that still wouldn't clear up the confusion over the organisation behind the domain which is why we shouldn't be dropping the current naming convention, if anything we should be opening up more options under .uk not restricting them.

That is the thing that I find interesting about .sch.uk domains, you will find as someone has noted that non of the xxx.sch.uk will resolve as currently the schools register on the fourth level eg schoolname.area.sch.uk. The fouth level will show a record in whois but we need clarification from Nominet as to how they will judge these, will it be when the third level was registered, which is how I based my study a based the date as the 1st October 1999 which is the oldest record I can find to .sch.uk.

I have no issue with a school getting st-maryscofe.uk but it is the LEA getting scilly.uk for example which I think need clarification.

It does not personally effect me but I think it is of interest to the community.

 

[Retired_member41]

Quick sidestep, but can anyone answer this?

Asking nominet about a domain registration issue, they said it was not possible to register a particular domain, a ltd.uk at the time, ok it was very speculative, but I had seen previous examples where it had worked, before it became policy for it not to work.

I asked where in the rules / terms of nominet did it mention this, they said it didn't, but it was their policy now not to, asked if their was a policy document with it noted, they said no, it was just policy?

I was ok about it, but it still mystifies me how they can quote policy about very important areas yet there is no written policy or minutes, person responsible etc for introducing it.

Is this normal?

 

[Bailey]

Taking things back to a slightly different angle (bearing in-mind and looking at changes afoot)

"..WordUK.com" type domains.

I have no real interest apart from an analytical-mindset. I have noticed one or two hitting the sales boards - (and doing a precheck- seems most keywordsUK.com are taken)

But I do wonder if, with all the 'stirring of the waters' that some may actually find solace (and value) in taking 'keywordUK.com' - I do expect some to dismiss my thoughts immediately but, I wonder some times about the .com space just being its 'Same-old-Same-old' since the year dot, giving some credence to that dilation.

* before anybody mentions it - this is not in the same realms as '.UK.COM' (yes I accept it's just an extra dot - but that has NO real History of USAGE)

 

[foz]

Is this normal?

nominet.org.uk/uk-domain-names/registering-uk-domain/choosing-domain-name/rules

Clause 10.

Seems comprehensive of what is allowed?

 

[foz]

Taking things back to a slightly different angle (bearing in-mind and looking at changes afoot)

"..WordUK.com" type domains.

I have no real interest apart from an analytical-mindset. I have noticed one or two hitting the sales boards - (and doing a precheck- seems most keywordsUK.com are taken)

But I do wonder if, with all the 'stirring of the waters' that some may actually find solace (and value) in taking 'keywordUK.com' - I do expect some to dismiss my thoughts immediately but, I wonder some times about the .com space just being its 'Same-old-Same-old' since the year dot, giving some credence to that dilation.

* before anybody mentions it - this is not in the same realms as '.UK.COM' (yes I accept it's just an extra dot - but that has NO real History of USAGE)

Agree. Looking back over the published sales keyworduk.com has outsold keyworduk.co.uk approx. 3 to 1.

 

[Bailey]

Agree. Looking back over the published sales keyworduk.com has outsold keyworduk.co.uk approx. 3 to 1.

Thanks for that quick supporting analysis foz - I just work on Markets, Memory and concepts. That said I would imagine data will show that as a forward trend in .com imho

 

[Stephen]

Where is .uk version 1 documents at Nominet?

Still putting together as full a list of questions about V2.0 as possible,
where there first outing with be the Nominet round table meeting next Wednesday in London.

As part of that process, I want to do some analysis using the previous Nominet .uk proposal.

So as it was a "consultation" I went to the Nominet website of part consultations:

http://www.nominet.org.uk/how-participate/policy-development/previous-policy-discussions-and-consultations/2012-consultations

Were I found:

2012 consultations

• Consultation on the introduction of a Nominet Members’ Code
• Consultation on the implementation of Multi-year Registration periods

NOTE: These consultations are available on request.

Does anybody know were Nominet have archived all there documents for .uk Version 1 please?

Note: As I have found it difficult to find the fragmented documents which provide what .uk V2.0 will bring if implemented, I have started another thread with links to the various documents.

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/uk-domain-name-consultations/117248-v2-0-uk-sources-information.html

 

[Edwin]

V1 Feedback (summary):
http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/SummaryofdirectukFeedback_1.pdf
http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/NomensaAnalysisFinal.pdf

V1 consultation document:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/Nominet_FINAL_electronic_form1.pdf

Various links about V1:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/consultation-new-uk-domain-name-service
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-closes-today
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-update-dates-diary
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-closes-7-january-–-give-us-your-views

 

[Stephen]

Links to V1 .uk

V1 Feedback (summary):
http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/SummaryofdirectukFeedback_1.pdf
http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/NomensaAnalysisFinal.pdf

V1 consultation document:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/Nominet_FINAL_electronic_form1.pdf

Various links about V1:
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/consultation-new-uk-domain-name-service
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-closes-today
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-update-dates-diary
http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/directuk-consultation-closes-7-january-–-give-us-your-views

Thank you as always Edwin.

 

[Lucien Taylor]

Two questions please

General

In V2.0 consultation Background Document (http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/def...strationInUK–BackgroundAndFurtherDetail_4.pdf), ref.p.9 pp1 Nominet state that a number of public bodies will be left without a meaningful .uk domain name. On page 8 pp 7. however, they reason that ‘in general, internet users are familiar with, and able to differentiate and navigate between,the various suffixes that exist including between .com, .co.uk and .org.uk and so on.

Given that, is Nominet suggesting that the current array of .org.uk, .co.uk, ac.uk are not meaningful for such organisations?

Why, in Nominet’s opinion will the .uk be more meaningful for those non-government departmental bodies to use than any other domain, .org.uk or .co.uk for example?

Special cases

The government have confirmed that they have no locus to act in Nominet business, that Nominet is a private company limited by guarantee, regulated by its members. If the government refuses to accept responsibility for Nominet, then surely, it can have no claim on Nominet assets. A private company limited by guarantee is answerable to its members, it cannot give away company assets without the permission of its members. The government cannot accept gifts for favours, and there needs to be a proper and transparent mechanism for this transaction. What would be the legal basis for this proposed reserved domain name transaction?

 

[Stephen]

More questions

Thanks for the extra questions and points of view.

I will update the questions on the post #1 to incorporate them ASAP.

 

[Stephen]

An imaginary conversation with Nominet

Nominet have indicated they are not interested engaging in clarifying issues
or answering any questions about the new .uk V2.0 proposal.

I thought it would be interesting to see how a conversation might go,
if they were co-operative.

Undecided :

Under the proposal Nominet has 2 pre-nom registrations,
Nominet.org.uk and Nominet.co.uk (so I don’t know which is older as no date or time on Nominet Whois)
but will Nominet be taking up the option of taking up Nominet.uk, if the proposal goes ahead?​

Nominet:

Yes, we will take up Nominet.uk from day 1.​

Undecided :

Will you be using Nominet.uk as your main domain instead of Nominet.org.uk?​

Nominet:

No we will just redirect to our .org.uk domain.​

Undecided:

But I thought the point was to increase the availability of new domains,
if you just redirect effectively no extra domains would be available to register?​

Nominet:

But we are not-for-profit and .org.uk reflects more what we do.​

Undecided:

Then why would other .org.uk want to use the .uk? Those that might would actually hold the .co.uk like Nominet does?​

Nominet:

We have reconsidered and will change over to Nominet.uk,
yet we will still keep Nominet.org.uk, Nominet.co.uk and Nominet.me.uk for brand protection.​

Undecided:

Then you will not be supporting .org.uk and by the way Nominet.me.uk is incorrectly registered to a company not an individual, or do the rules not apply to Nominet?​

Nominet:

We are going forward with all extensions but we are now going to use Nominet.uk as our main domain.​

Undecided:

How much will it cost you?​

Nominet:

Only £9 for 2 years registration.​

Undecided:

What budget does Nominet have for the time, stationery, brochures, marketing material replacements,
PowerPoint updates, reference changes to all websites that point to you, website changes, seo, PR,
cost of email changes and an awareness campaign to change to Nominet.uk and all its related emails?​

Nominet:

Confidential information which we cannot disclose.
But its okay we have several million pounds in the bank
and .uk will create an additional surplus of £20,000,000 per year.​

Undecided:

Why will not all .co.uk owners want to protect their brand or potential brand as Nominet did by obtaining the equivalent .uk?​

Nominet:

Don’t know, we have not asked them.​

There are lots of variations of the above but I thought the above made some good observations,
on how Nominet have not made the case properly for .uk.

The more I look into this, unless Nominet change their approach,
.uk will not happen when business gets hold of the full picture about .uk.

 

[markb]

I was just wondering if the proposal went ahead would nominet would be trying to prevent people registering .uk names hat have 'co' on the end, I.e. exampleco.uk which would easily be confused with example.co.uk

People would obviously be registering these for popular sites and possibly be using them for phishing and possible mistyping to get traffic. This would just be an extra couple of registrations businesses have to do to protect their brands, unless nominet prevented it.

 

[Stephen]

alternative to DRS?

I was just wondering if the proposal went ahead would nominet would be trying to prevent people registering .uk names hat have 'co' on the end, I.e. exampleco.uk which would easily be confused with example.co.uk

People would obviously be registering these for popular sites and possibly be using them for phishing and possible mistyping to get traffic. This would just be an extra couple of registrations businesses have to do to protect their brands, unless nominet prevented it.

More expense for business but more money for Nominet.

I don't think Nominet would put rules in to stop registrations.

However Nominet may want to consider introducing a quick cheaper alternative to DRS for those that are registered as clearly abusive.
This might make a good question to see how serious about real security issues and in helping businesses.

 

[Stephen]

some observations about a valid viewpoint

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of the .uk proposals, I think the "co" "org" "sch" "ac" and so on add a huge level of value to the UK brand and define the use of the domain, however, if .uk goes ahead as proposed, then all should be able to use it and have the chance of getting it if they have the oldest registration.

My objections to this are:

• you can have two different owners of .co.uk and .uk, which is going to be confusing as 93% of the UK namespace is .co.uk.
  
• the .org.uk will still work as is and no proof has been provided who will loose out and whether they would use the .uk anyway if they were provided with it
  
• I simply don't agree that .me.uk owners should have any rights
  
• the oldest registrant only has a right and many domain owners will not understand or know what is happening or release they have to be proactive and claim it, rather than them just receiving the .uk (see Nominet Q & A - to see how they word it to help new registrations now!)
  
• the abuse of the proposal has already started, I have started to see speculative registrations on famous brand names in .me.uk, I'm sure hoping that the oldest registrant doesn't claim the .uk.

 

[Stephen]

Incorrect Reporting?

Will Nominet contact media that publish incorrect account of its new proposal for .uk and ask them to correct the article?

Such as at:

http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2013/july/icann-sets-security-standards-requirement-for-new-top-level-domain-registries-as-nominet-resurrects-uk-plans/

Where is incorrectly states:

Under the plans businesses that own existing domain names rooted at '.uk' would have a "right of first refusal" to secure a '.uk'-only domain name. Nominet said the new regime would offer improved security.

 

[markb]

Will Nominet contact media that publish incorrect account of its new proposal for .uk and ask them to correct the article?

Such as at:

http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2013/july/icann-sets-security-standards-requirement-for-new-top-level-domain-registries-as-nominet-resurrects-uk-plans/

Where is incorrectly states:

Under the plans businesses that own existing domain names rooted at '.uk' would have a "right of first refusal" to secure a '.uk'-only domain name. Nominet said the new regime would offer improved security.

I can't believe that with such an important proposal to the change of the uk namespace, that there isn't many more articles out there on the subject. It just goes to show that nominet don't really want people to know what may be happening until its too late.