.UK Announced

[markb]

If Nominet went by their current proposals, any person/company/domainer who has a registered right for 'pets' would get the domain pets.uk, and that is not going to be as straightforward as proposed, given that several persons may own registered rights to 'pets'. This only one of the many unreasonable and unnecessary conditions for getting a .uk proposed by Nominet.

If this was the case, these people who have a registered trademark for "Pets" should be able to go to court and take the pets.co.uk domain off mars.com

Nominet shouldnt be able to give preference to trademark holders over .co.uk owners, this is totally wrong. If these trademark owners dont already own the .co.uk domain why should they have a right to the .uk ? This is where the confusion will stem from and lots of legal actions.

 

[GreyWing]

I said that at the conference mate. If after 18 years we still have a situation where the registered owner of a domain is the one with least rights to it, then the board should resign for still having a broken drs system.

They just shrugged their shoulders...

 

[Edwin]

The TM issue was hammered out in the face-to-face sessions several times and, although I'd say a largeish majority in the room favoured not giving TM holders first dibs, there were several parties present from the IP industry who were clearly over the moon about Nominet's proposed allocation method and were consequently very happy to defend their suggested approach.

I believe Nominet were savvy in that they managed to get quite a few people from the IP industry to come along to their sessions (I presume via direct invitation - I can't imagine they were tag holders) even though they've not contacted the wider public. Gives them some grounds for stating that they saw "support" for their proposal.

 

[Stephen]

TM representatives

The TM issue was hammered out in the face-to-face sessions several times and, although I'd say a largeish majority in the room favoured not giving TM holders first dibs, there were several parties present from the IP industry who were clearly over the moon about Nominet's proposed allocation method and were consequently very happy to defend their suggested approach.

I believe Nominet were savvy in that they managed to get quite a few people from the IP industry to come along to their sessions (I presume via direct invitation - I can't imagine they were tag holders) even though they've not contacted the wider public. Gives them some grounds for stating that they saw "support" for their proposal.

Agree with your observations but would add some of the TM respresentatives I spoke to at the round table meetings were not happy about .uk in the first place and were seeing it as another round of defensive registrations and the start of a long process of protection with the new 1,000+ ICANN gTLD's around shortly.

In addition the TM represtentatives were not happy and some sceptical about the Nominet auctions and the real cost it would mean, of these required defensive registrations!

 

[Edwin]

Agree with your observations but would add some of the TM respresentatives I spoke to at the round table meetings were not happy about .uk in the first place and were seeing it as another round of defensive registrations and the start of a long process of protection with the new 1,000+ ICANN gTLD's around shortly.

In addition the TM represtentatives were not happy and some sceptical about the Nominet auctions and the real cost it would mean, of these required defensive registrations!

Granted, but they were still happier about being first in line than they were about the prospect of not getting a look in at all (which is what would happen under the scenario that domain owners - whether just .co.uk, or oldest registrant, or all competing domain owners) went first instead.

So yes, I have the feeling that some of them would prefer no direct.uk at all. But I think they were pretty unanimous that IF it went ahead, the current TM-first proposal was the most appealing.

 

[bulkcorn]

If this was the case, these people who have a registered trademark for "Pets" should be able to go to court and take the pets.co.uk domain off mars.com

Nominet shouldnt be able to give preference to trademark holders over .co.uk owners, this is totally wrong. If these trademark owners dont already own the .co.uk domain why should they have a right to the .uk ? This is where the confusion will stem from and lots of legal actions.

Makes me wonder why Nominet wants to concern itself about which one of several possible registered right owers get the .uk . That should be sorted out through any avenue of 'dispute resolution' post-registration, not decided by Nominet pre-registration. Is Nominet able to sufficiently examine all the evidence and circumstances of every 'registered rights' waved at it for each and every .uk domain it refuses to award to the corresponding .co.uk owner? I don't think so! They'll be swamped with lawsuits from every nook and cranny.

I honestly can't wait for Nominet to wake up from its pursuit of this dream .... and very soon!

 

[markb]

I believe direct.uk shouldnt go ahead, but if it does the domains as they are being touted as for businesses, should go to the .co.uk holder. Alternatively, if .co.uk owners arent the first in line to the .uk, then .uk domains should NOT be allowed to be used for business online, as this would cause confusion and harm to the existing .co.uk owners.

 

[Stephen]

Granted, but they were still happier about being first in line than they were about the prospect of not getting a look in at all (which is what would happen under the scenario that domain owners - whether just .co.uk, or oldest registrant, or all competing domain owners) went first instead.

So yes, I have the feeling that some of them would prefer no direct.uk at all. But I think they were pretty unanimous that IF it went ahead, the current TM-first proposal was the most appealing.

I think you underestimate how many .co.uk are owned by the trademark holders you are referring to and so it would not be such a big problem if .co.uk owners received the equivalent .uk.

I have asked repeatedly that Nominet conduct a study to find exactly how big this supposed area is of Trademark holders not having the .co.uk they believe they are entitled to and publish there findings. As you published the list of the top UK websites and their trademark situations.

Pure self-interest by very few doesn't make it right to give TM holders so much of a benefit whilst causing injustice for possibly millions of registrants and consumer confusion.

 

[Jamie101]

Interesting reading about this.

So, would I be right in saying that we should know whether .uk will go ahead towards the end of Feb / early March?

I still don't fully understand what is going on here, but from what I understand the whole situation is a complete mess. Nothing is wrong with .co.uk so why bother with all of this?!

The only reason I can think of is £ for Nominet but they are supposed to be non-profit.

 

[bulkcorn]

I still don't fully understand what is going on here, but from what I understand the whole situation is a complete mess. Nothing is wrong with .co.uk so why bother with all of this?!

The bolded is the short and long of the matter! :lol:

 

[Edwin]

So, would I be right in saying that we should know whether .uk will go ahead towards the end of Feb / early March?

I still don't fully understand what is going on here, but from what I understand the whole situation is a complete mess. Nothing is wrong with .co.uk so why bother with all of this?!

The only reason I can think of is £ for Nominet but they are supposed to be non-profit.

It's a huge mistake to equate "non-profit" and "not aiming to make a boatload of money." After all, Nominet donates its excess to the Nominet Trust. The bigger the donations, the more power/clout/prestige the Nominet Trust has, and that reflects well on Nominet and the top leadership circle there (think "prestige", "legacy", "honours" and all the other goodies that come with more prominence).

Not to mention the fact that there have historically been various quite lucrative Performance Related Pay elements to the bonus system that Nominet senior execs benefit from, and you can imagine the excitement at tapping into an almost overnight £50,000,000/year+ new revenue stream (read: "windfall") for a company that only did about £25,000,000 in business last year. Presumably that would "blow the doors off" any performance target you care to imagine.

The following quote is worth reading and re-reading until it REALLY sinks in. So much weasel language in just two sentences!

Our not-for-profit status means that we are unable to distribute funds to our members. It doesn't mean we are unable to make profits.

http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/whatwedo/history

What that means, in a nutshell, is that Nominet don't get to distribute the surplus to shareholders (because they don't have any!) but they're not prevented from racking one up! Indeed, Nominet have trumpeted their success at raising money for the Nominet Trust very loudly indeed. For example, from Lesley Cowley's bio on the Nominet site:

Under Lesley’s leadership, Nominet has become a trusted guardian of a vital part of the UK internet economy, providing services that are relied upon by millions of businesses and consumers. This success has enabled over £20m to be donated to its charitable foundation – Nominet Trust.

http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/structure/executive

Yes, that's right, Nominet define success as "overcharging registrants over the years to the tune of over £20,000,000" to paraphrase the quote in different terms that amount to the same thing (remember, practically ALL Nominet's revenue comes from domain registration fees) Indeed, they're happy to celebrate the fact!

So make no mistake about it, the money's front and centre in this story!

 

[markb]

Not to mention the fact that there have historically been various quite lucrative Performance Related Pay elements to the bonus system that Nominet senior execs benefit from, and you can imagine the excitement at tapping into an almost overnight £50,000,000/year+ new revenue stream (read: "windfall") for a company that only did about £25,000,000 in business last year.

It wouldnt matter what mess they made to the uk domain market and uk businesses, if they managed to push the direct.uk proposal through, they would be able to retire comfortably after their huge bonuses, then leave it for other people to clean up afterwards.

 

[Jamie101]

It's a huge mistake to equate "non-profit" and "not aiming to make a boatload of money." After all, Nominet donates its excess to the Nominet Trust. The bigger the donations, the more power/clout/prestige the Nominet Trust has, and that reflects well on Nominet and the top leadership circle there.

Not to mention the fact that there have historically been various quite lucrative Performance Related Pay elements to the bonus system that Nominet senior execs benefit from, and you can imagine the excitement at tapping into an almost overnight £50,000,000/year+ new revenue stream (read: "windfall") for a company that only did about £25,000,000 in business last year.

The following quote is worth reading and re-reading until it REALLY sinks in. So much weasel language in just two sentences! "Our not-for-profit status means that we are unable to distribute funds to our members. It doesn't mean we are unable to make profits."
http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/whatwedo/history

What that means, in a nutshell, is that Nominet don't get to distribute the surplus to shareholders (because they don't have any!) but they're not prevented from racking one up!

Thanks for the information.

There just seems to be so many weird things about Nominet that I can't seem to get my head around it.

As I said to someone a few days ago, I genuinely feel sorry for people that have so many quality .co.uk's (like yourself).

What exactly do Nominet do with their profits actually? Do they share this to the public?

 

[Edwin]

There just seems to be so many weird things about Nominet that I can't seem to get my head around it.

What's weird? As an organisation, they've cleverly engineered a way to milk at least £50,000,000 a year out of the (mainly) UK business contingent and the general public, plus countless £millions more as a one-time windfall from auctions here, there and everywhere. All that stands between them and this Jackpot prize is fudging a "public" consultation and misrepresenting the supposed benefits of their proposed solution in a way that people in general won't understand/notice/care because they never really pay much attention anyway or understand this whole "domain thing".

It's as crystal clear as it could possibly be what their intent is and why they're doing it.

What exactly do Nominet do with their profits actually? Do they share this to the public?

They hand what's left after salaries, executive bonuses and other perks over to the Nominet Trust each year. In the last few years, that has meant 7-figure cheques and lots of headlines every time they make the latest donation. For instance, £6,000,000 was handed over in September 2012 http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/latest/£6m-donation-nominet-trust-and-september-communiqué

Of course, Nominet also plonks some of the surplus cash in a bank account as a hedge against future uncertainties, but all sensible companies do that so that's one thing you can't begrudge them too much.

It's all in their annual reports, if you care to look
http://www.nominet.org.uk/whoweare/annual-reports

 

[thecat]

Probably a dumb question but I can't find any sort of summary - so is .uk happening? If so, when, and how do I order ?

 

[Edwin]

Probably a dumb question but I can't find any sort of summary - so is .uk happening? If so, when, and how do I order ?

We should know in March if it goes ahead, and if so in what form (Nominet meet on it late this month, but the minutes of the meeting won't be published overnight)

Until then, Nominet are saying nothing at all.

 

[thecat]

Thanks Edwin - it might be worth someone updating the OP with those 2 lines. Saved me a lot of time

 

[4ndy]

Latest Odds

What would the odds be on the .UK actually going ahead?

Is it EVS for both or 2/7 NO and 9/4 YES

Can anyone quantify this in odds terms?

Best wishes
4ndy

 

[anthony]

...Of course, Nominet also plonks some of the surplus cash in a bank account as a hedge against future uncertainties...[/url]

So long as they don't go speculating a load of cash on the stock market, or something equally foolhardy, only an absolute imbecile would do that!

 

[foz]

So long as they don't go speculating a load of cash on the stock market, or something equally foolhardy, only an absolute imbecile would do that!

I would rather see the cash stockpiled than see it given away to charity.

Charities are a gravy train, most have salaried staff and in real terms what is donated 20%-40% in donated value ends up where its needed.