The term "exact match" does NOT apply to hyphenated domains...

[eddieb]

Well if they're doing 3.8 Billion by selling via end users who are making 50%, they could make substantially more than that by selling direct.

If they dealt direct they would lose all their trade outlets. The gross profit margin may be higher but it is a lot easier and cheaper to service a few thousand trade customers than several million members of the public all making 1 or 2-off purchases. How many extra staff do you think they would need to employ? How much extra space would they need for all the products Joe Public expects them to have ready for immediate despatch? It would be a logistics nightmare, that's why they don't do it

PLUS to use another domainer argument, why not buy it to stop the competition from getting it?

Because their competitors are in the same position as they are - Wolf, Makita, Karcher, etc, etc don't want Joe Public emailing them or on the phone every 5 minutes because their £9.99 cordless screwdriver hasn't arrived yet even though they ordered it 2 days ago.

 

[Edwin]

And as for finding an example that matches your argument - you're a guy who has a couple of thousand generics, and you're trying to play down the relevance of hyphenated versions.

"Man who's registered thousands of EMDs in "hyphenated domains are worthless" shocker!"

I just checked. We have 6,994 .co.uk domains in inventory, and 71 of them are hyphenated i.e. 1% of our portfolio. 6 of the 865 names we've sold in the last 6 years have been hyphenated and they accounted for 0.61% of total sales revenue. So yes, I see hyphenated domains as pretty much irrelevant - and so do our customers.

 

[dashu1]

Who said they were the be all and end all ?

You really think a company that was formed 111 years before powertools.co.uk was even registered, would rebrand to powertools.co.uk when it probably doesn't even make up 10% of what they do ?

You have given one example of a single company where they haven't purchased a generic domain as part of their overall business strategy.

Based on your logic, there appears to be a huge list of 'fools' here http://www.memorabledomains.co.uk/companies-that-get-it.html

Some of your previous sales threads you have actually commented "I like this name as it does what it says on the tin" - has your view on this now changed, and we would be fools to buy any of them in future ?

There's a difference between some crumby domain that might make a few thousand in sales and an established market that's worth £Billions.

That's the difference between making a few quid from doing what it says on the tin and creating a brand.

If you're a serious player in such a huge market, and you seriously think that an EMD describing the generic product might cause you problems, then for a few £thousand quid you'd buy it just to have it out the way of the competition.

And yes, I gave one example previously, but I've added another 2 off the top of my head above.

I suspect looking through Edwins list of domains for sale would swell that number quite considerably.

I'm not against people selling domains for money, I do it myself, and am happy to take the money, but what I am against is people trying to inflate their own opinions of themselves or their £7 domains.

At the end of the day anyone trying to make money selling domains, myself included, are nothing more than bottom feeders, trying to make something off the hard work of other people.

Trying to kid yourselves that you're superior to someone else becaus ethey have the hyphens is just folly, especially if they're the ones making the product.

 

[dashu1]

If they dealt direct they would lose all their trade outlets. The gross profit margin may be higher but it is a lot easier and cheaper to service a few thousand trade customers than several million members of the public all making 1 or 2-off purchases. How many extra staff do you think they would need to employ? How much extra space would they need for all the products Joe Public expects them to have ready for immediate despatch? It would be a logistics nightmare, that's why they don't do it

No they wouldn't this is one dimensional domainer thinking.

They could easily set up another company, powertools.co.uk, sell a cheaper non Bosch branded version of each, farm the logistics out to a company who specialises in it, and reap the rewards.

It's soap powder principles pal.

You don't have to blather your name over everything you make, the bottom line is the bottom line, so if there was anything in it, then they'd be doing it.

 

[dashu1]

I just checked. We have 6,994 .co.uk domains in inventory, and 71 of them are hyphenated i.e. 1% of our portfolio. 6 of the 865 names we've sold in the last 6 years have been hyphenated and they accounted for 0.61% of total sales revenue. So yes, I see hyphenated domains as pretty much irrelevant.

I already guessed you don't like hyphens from your thread title Edwin, you're not really telling me anything by confirming the numbers.

Why exactly did you say "of course power tools hasn't sold" - it's an industry worth £Billions per year.

 

[Edwin]

Why exactly did you say "of course power tools hasn't sold" - it's an industry worth £Billions per year.

I already explained that. It hasn't sold BECAUSE you were looking for an example of a name that hasn't sold to post in support of your argument. Therefore whatever name you posted (powertools.co.uk or ______.co.uk, doesn't matter) would by definition be a generic that's not sold!

 

[domainseller200]

There's a difference between some crumby domain that might make a few thousand in sales and an established market that's worth £Billions.

That's the difference between making a few quid from doing what it says on the tin and creating a brand.

If you're a serious player in such a huge market, and you seriously think that an EMD describing the generic product might cause you problems, then for a few £thousand quid you'd buy it just to have it out the way of the competition.

And yes, I gave one example previously, but I've added another 2 off the top of my head above.

I suspect looking through Edwins list of domains for sale would swell that number quite considerably.

I'm not against people selling domains for money, I do it myself, and am happy to take the money, but what I am against is people trying to inflate their own opinions of themselves or their £7 domains.

At the end of the day anyone trying to make money selling domains, myself included, are nothing more than bottom feeders, trying to make something off the hard work of other people.

Trying to kid yourselves that you're superior to someone else becaus ethey have the hyphens is just folly, especially if they're the ones making the product.

Instead of me writing a big long drawn out reply, I will just say this - you can't tar everyone with the same brush - that goes for both buyers and sellers.

For the record I do agree with your hyphen remarks as end users either get domains or they don't regardless of hyphens, so therefore they could be treated equally and shouldn't be labelled as inferior.

 

[SF]

Edwin, ive sold hundreds of hyphens all above £500.

How many domains have you sold Edwin in the past 12 months, I know you like figures so please tell me?

 

[Edwin]

how many domains have you sold edwin in the past 12 months, i know you like figures so please tell me?

74.

 

[SF]

Thats more than I would of thought actualy - I take it those are all inbound sales?

 

[dashu1]

I already explained that. It hasn't sold BECAUSE you were looking for an example of a name that hasn't sold to post in support of your argument. Therefore whatever name you posted (powertools.co.uk or ______.co.uk, doesn't matter) would by definition be a generic that's not sold!

WHAT! - talk about circular logic.

You're a guy, and enough respect to you for being the leader in your field, who advocates the power of generics.

And here you have a generic that represents an industry worth £Billions. A prime mover.

And you're answer as to why it hasn't sold is because I was using it as an example?

I picked a company off the top of my head, genuinely, and Bosch was the first one I thought of.

What about vacuumcleaners.co.uk, or cars.co.uk, or any of the other thousands you could mention?

The top and bottom of it in my humble opinion is that the power of branding is in the name of the company, not the domain name, and you lot have it largely the other way around, and that's why companies like Bosch (and all the other power tools manuf's), Ford (and all the other auto manuf's), Hoover (and all the other vacuum manuf's) couldn't give 2 hits about them.

Otherwise every generic in every industry would be owned by a major player.

And they're not.

 

[newguy]

I just checked. We have 6,994 .co.uk domains in inventory, and 71 of them are hyphenated i.e. 1% of our portfolio. 6 of the 865 names we've sold in the last 6 years have been hyphenated and they accounted for 0.61% of total sales revenue. So yes, I see hyphenated domains as pretty much irrelevant - and so do our customers.

It's not an entirely terrible hyphenated domain sale rate really considering you have so few of them . Unless you used to had many more of them of course, and let them expire. Fascinating to see your stats by the way. You clearly have a very professional approach and what you do without a doubt works for you.

 

[Edwin]

Thats more than I would of thought actualy - I take it those are all inbound sales?

Except for a handful on Domainlore, yes. Before you ask, I'm not going to be drawn into specific values or specific names - one of our promises to clients is that we keep sales confidential (which is why they don't get reported to DNJournal and other outlets).

 

[Edwin]

It's not an entirely terrible hyphenated domain sale rate really considering you have so few of them . Unless you used to have many more of them of course, and let them expire. Fascinating to see your stats by the way. You clearly have a very professional approach and what you do without a doubt works for you.

No, that's the lot. We've never let a .co.uk name expire apart from about half a dozen over the years that turned out to be typos (sometimes I didn't do enough checking before booking stuff on drops).

 

[SF]

Thats pretty good edwin well done and at the prices you charge you must be a rich man

Thanks edwin!

And stay clear of those hyphens!

 

[domainseller200]

Otherwise every generic in every industry would be owned by a major player.

And they're not.

I think everyone knows it isn't as black and white as that though.

Don't forget you are only naming 'superbrands' who have been around for years before the internet was invented.

Hotels.com is a great example of a brand that has been created from it's name alone. It may only be a single example, but Ford was also the only single example available before others started creating cars also.

 

[eddieb]

No they wouldn't this is one dimensional domainer thinking.

Don't make stupid comments about people you know nothing about. I would never in a month of Sundays call myself a domainer, I have a full-time job and happen to own a handful of domains

They could easily set up another company, powertools.co.uk, sell a cheaper non Bosch branded version of each, farm the logistics out to a company who specialises in it, and reap the rewards.

It's soap powder principles pal.

If you look at any unbranded product you will see that in almost every case these are the REAL bottom-feeders, selling generic rubbish at rock-bottom prices because price is the only selling point they have.
The big profits come from trusted, quality branded products, like Bosch, were people are willing to pay a premium price. Your unbranded rubbish will never make the same money as the quality products, thats why the big brands are still with us 100 years after starting out.
Why would Bosch want to sell unbranded goods? This would be common knowledge before they sold the first item and as soon as the trade found out they would drop Bosch's premium products in favour of a competitor of Bosch who supported the trade outlets.

You don't have to blather your name over everything you make, the bottom line is the bottom line, so if there was anything in it, then they'd be doing it.

'Blathering your name over everything' is what most of us know as marketing. Its done for very specific reasons, to make the name recognisable, to build brand loyalty, reputation, and ultimately filter down to the bottom line.

 

[dashu1]

I think everyone knows it isn't as black and white as that though.

Don't forget you are only naming 'superbrands' who have been around for years before the internet was invented.

Hotels.com is a great example of a brand that has been created from it's name alone. It may only be a single example, but Ford was also the only single example available before others started creating cars also.

Yes of course, and to go the other way with newer companies to make the point, Facebook.com and Twitter.com chose names and created them into brands, they didn't obsess over socialnetwork.com and microblog.com.

They took names and expanded them into brands.

What you're all advocating is taking brands and shrinking them into domain names.

 

[dashu1]

If you look at any unbranded product you will see that in almost every case these are the REAL bottom-feeders, selling generic rubbish at rock-bottom prices because price is the only selling point they have.
The big profits come from trusted, quality branded products, like Bosch, were people are willing to pay a premium price. Your unbranded rubbish will never make the same money as the quality products, thats why the big brands are still with us 100 years after starting out.
Why would Bosch want to sell unbranded goods? This would be common knowledge before they sold the first item and as soon as the trade found out they would drop Bosch's premium products in favour of a competitor of Bosch who supported the trade outlets.

You're talking utter nonsense, the world is full of alternative or cheaper brands that are in fact made by bigger brands who leave their names off them.

E.g. Duracell brought out Procell to attack the industrial market, and for years did not openly advertise they were behind the brand.

Hence the soap powder comment.

Learn something before firing your gob off.

 

[eddieb]

You're talking utter nonsense, the world is full of alternative or cheaper brands that are in fact made by bigger brands who leave their names off them.

Hence the soap powder comment.

Learn something before firing your gob off.

I think I know a bit more about this than you, based on the nonsense you have spouted thus far.
Soap powder, and other similar generic products, are made by some large companies I agree, but not usually by the big players in their industries. It is wrong to use a product like this to try to support your Bosch example. I could just as easily give you examples of Multinational companies who do not make generic or own-branded products.