The term "exact match" does NOT apply to hyphenated domains...

[Aegean]

The Google link you refer to is helpful when planning your site structure and URL structure - (we referred to it when installing a re-writer). From my understanding, it's not about Google endorsing hyphens in domain names.

Google DO endorse hyphens, what I mean by that is they acknowledge hyphens as formal separators, as illustrated in this sentence:

"We recommend that you use hyphens (-) instead of underscores (_) in your URLs."

Thats because an underscore is not a recognised separator in common English, a hyphen is. It doesn't matter if its before or after the switch.

 

[anthony]

Google DO endorse hyphens, what I mean by that is they acknowledge hyphens as formal separators, as illustrated in this sentence:

"We recommend that you use hyphens (-) instead of underscores (_) in your URLs."

Thats because an underscore is not a recognised separator in common English, a hyphen is. It doesn't matter if its before or after the switch.

And so they should. As has been pointed out previously, they act to reduce confusion where the beginning and end of the two words have the same letter, or where a compound word isn't what the site owner wishes to convey.

 

[retired_member34]

There has always been 2 benefits to using a domain containing the exact keywords, with or without hyphens.

1. The "exact match" bonus, where Google boosted your ranking if your domain exactly matched the search term. Seomoz and Seobook have both said for years now that either this does not exist for hyphenated domains, or if it does it is much reduced in comparison. However they have also been saying that the boost for non-hyphenated domains is in decline.

2. Keyword rich anchor text. This is where hyphenated domains were basically equal to non-hyphenated domains, in the past, and so were still very useful for ranking. Guess what? Google has turned us off the over use of keyword anchor text.

Personally I think an EMD in the right circumstances gives great authority and some ranking boost, and that a hyphenated EMD (or is that a HEMD, or a PMD ) doesn't give you either.

However, having made a full time job of developing both EMD and branded sites over the last 10 years I will be going strictly branded in the future.

All IMHO and all that...

 

[willbon]

Acorn does it again... pretty much all you need to know about hyphenated domains!

.. Perhaps this was a 'domain research' thread after all, Edwin!

Can we agree that it is better, wherever possible, to own the non-hyphenated and the hyphenated versions if the domain is 2 or more words?

 

[retired_member34]

Can we agree that it is better, wherever possible, to own the non-hyphenated and the hyphenated versions if the domain is 2 or more words?

Not 100% sure of the question.

If you plan to develop a hyphenated then you really must own the non-hyphenated and redirect it. For example, national-lottery.co.uk is clearer than nationallottery.co.uk (the ll is horrible), they own both and redirect the non-hyphenated. Another example, coolest-gadgets.com. They originally only purchased the hyphenated (years ago in their defence), then the site became popular and so had to pay way over the odds for the non-hyphenated, which is redirected. To not own it now is a disaster, see another thread about kitchen-compare.com.

If you have developed a non-hyphenated is it nice to own the hyphenated and redirect? Sure if they domains are FTR or cheap, and I do if I can but the traffic the hyphenated sends is miniscule.

If you only own the hyphenated, then it's just not worth the bother for a serious site. For a few-quid-on-adwords-chuck-up-a-minisite then go ahead.

Again, IMHO etc..

 

[Edwin]

Can we agree that it is better, wherever possible, to own the non-hyphenated and the hyphenated versions if the domain is 2 or more words?

No. Complete waste of money. Unless you're developing a "real" site (i.e. not a thin affiliate/made for Adsense site) and even then I'd only get the hyphen to slam the door on anyone else getting it. But if you're looking to sell the domain or put up a "quick" site I don't believe having the hyphen version as well adds any value at all.

In fact, I've had buyers say to me (paraphrased, but not much) "Why should we buy your domain when we can just register one with hyphens?" to which I reply "You're quite right. The hyphenated domain is still available. Good luck with your new endeavour." In quite a few cases they've come back a few weeks/months later and bought the proper version off me... I've also had a number of cases where I've offered the hyphenated version of domains where I happened to have both as a package at a small (read 10-20%) increment to the price of the unhyphenated version, and I've never had any takers even among "end user" buyers.

Occasionally, it's gone further than that. I've told people who've told me they want the name but can't afford anywhere near my price "Well, the hyphenated version's still available and you could get that for the cost of registration" and even THAT has turned into sales for us down the road as their business grew (I've also recommended the .org.uk to them, with similar results).

 

[willbon]

No. Complete waste of money. Unless you're developing a "real" site (i.e. not a thin affiliate/made for Adsense site) and even then I'd only get the hyphen to slam the door on anyone else getting it.

Exactly.

Is not a 'real' site what all domainers have in their minds?

 

[Edwin]

Exactly.

Is not a 'real' site what all domainers have in their minds?

I doubt it, otherwise they'd own just a handful of really decent domains central to the theme(s) of those "real" sites. Of course, some people are also developers in parallel to being domainers (and their portfolios reflect that) but if you own hundreds or thousands of domains it's a pipedream to think that most are going to end up "developed for real" (without bringing a sale to appropriate end-users into the picture as an intermediate step).

 

[SF]

I know someone making 3k a week on hyphen domains

Dont register them they are rubbish cancel them all right now and do as edwin says LOL

 

[cm1975]

I know someone making 3k a week on hyphen domains

Dont register them they are rubbish cancel them all right now and do as edwin says LOL

True. There's money to be made in them. If you don't rate them, then get rid. If you do like them, then good luck.

When it comes to AD there are many on here that will turn their noses up at them, but there are others who are happy to buy ..... at the right price! It's just a different level of the food chain.

 

[Alien]

I've said before, the National Lottery is a great example and the hyphen, I expect, is to separate the two l's in the words and make it easier to read.

national-lottery.co.uk (and nationallottery.co.uk redirects to hyphenated version).

Interesting too - the non hyphenated domain here not in use seems to have been registered after the hyphenated?

 

[dashu1]

Surely if you're trading online and not trying to "brand" yourself with an EMD matching a product name (what a crazy assertion**), then it matters not one jot if you have the EMD, a hyphenated version, or something entirely different so long as you're the site people find when they search.

What you do with them from there is down to how well your site converts.

And how about the scenario where a certain domainer or domainers "own" the EMD and have a sales page on it.

In that case the hyphenated version is definitely going to outrank it, and you could fairly argue that a business would be far better off building a site on the hyphens and milking it, rather than being milked by paying through the nose for something that cost said domainer £7.

**Bosch for example brand themselves as Bosch, not powertools.co.uk

The fact that they have a marketing team that spends £millions on advertising, and that powertools.co.uk is still owned by a domainer, means that either Bosch and every other manufacturer and retailer of power tools are morons, or that domainers have a habit of kidding themselves about just how important they and their domains are.

 

[BREWSTERS]

**Bosch for example brand themselves as Bosch, not powertools.co.uk

The fact that they have a marketing team that spends £millions on advertising, and that powertools.co.uk is still owned by a domainer, means that either Bosch and every other manufacturer and retailer of power tools are morons, or that domainers have a habit of kidding themselves about just how important they and their domains are.

On the other side of the coin, ToysRUs spent $5m buying toys.com

Also, Bosch produce hundeds of different products - power tools is only a fraction of what they do.

 

[domainseller200]

On the other side of the coin, ToysRUs spent $5m buying toys.com

Also, Bosch produce hundeds of different products - power tools is only a fraction of what they do.

And seeing as Bosch was founded in 1886, they would need a Delorean with a flux capacitor which requires 1.21 gigawatts of electrical power to operate.

 

[dashu1]

And seeing as Bosch was founded in 1886, they would need a Delorean with a flux capacitor which requires 1.21 gigawatts of electrical power to operate.

Whats that got to do with anything?

If EMDs are the be all and end all then they'd have snapped the hand off the owner of powertools eons ago.

So what if they are into loads of other sectors - at 3.8 Billion Euros per year it's a huge part of their business.

And yet they don't see the value in spending a few £thousand on a domain name.

So who are the fools?

 

[Edwin]

The logic's broken because you looked for an example that supports your point of view, then used it to support that point of view (circular argument)! Of course powertools.co.uk hasn't sold, but that's true because you looked around until you found an example of a domain name that's still held by a domainer...

It says nothing about any other generic domain name, nor about their attractiveness to end-users.

 

[eddieb]

Why would Bosch want or need a domain name that would bring end-users to their website(s) when they don't sell direct to end-users but through a trade network?

 

[dashu1]

Why would Bosch want or need a domain name that would bring end-users to their website(s) when they don't sell direct to end-users but through a trade network?

Well if they're doing 3.8 Billion by selling via end users who are making 50%, they could make substantially more than that by selling direct.

PLUS to use another domainer argument, why not buy it to stop the competition from getting it?

 

[dashu1]

The logic's broken because you looked for an example that supports your point of view, then used it to support that point of view (circular argument)! Of course powertools.co.uk hasn't sold, but that's true because you looked around until you found an example of a domain name that's still held by a domainer...

It says nothing about any other generic domain name, nor about their attractiveness to end-users.

Of course power tools hasn't sold?

But it's a generic Edwin!

It's not broken logic, you can apply the same logic to thousands of other companies, that was literally the first one that came into my head.

I'm sure if people spent 5 minutes thinking they could come up with oodles more - how about Dyson, Hoover, and all of the vacuum cleaner manufactuers.

Hoover etc have had decades to work out what works best in terms of advertising, and have any of them bought vacuumcleaners.co.uk?

What about Ford, Nissan, VW, etc - do they feel the need to own cars.co.uk?

The list is almost endless.

And as for finding an example that matches your argument - you're a guy who has a couple of thousand generics, and you're trying to play down the relevance of hyphenated versions.

"Man who's registered thousands of EMDs in "hyphenated domains are worthless" shocker!"

 

[domainseller200]

Whats that got to do with anything?

If EMDs are the be all and end all then they'd have snapped the hand off the owner of powertools eons ago.

So what if they are into loads of other sectors - at 3.8 Billion Euros per year it's a huge part of their business.

And yet they don't see the value in spending a few £thousand on a domain name.

So who are the fools?

Who said they were the be all and end all ?

You really think a company that was formed 111 years before powertools.co.uk was even registered, would rebrand to powertools.co.uk when it probably doesn't even make up 10% of what they do ?

You have given one example of a single company where they haven't purchased a generic domain as part of their overall business strategy.

Based on your logic, there appears to be a huge list of 'fools' here http://www.memorabledomains.co.uk/companies-that-get-it.html

Some of your previous sales threads you have actually commented "I like this name as it does what it says on the tin" - has your view on this now changed, and we would be fools to buy any of them in future ?