The error of being inwardly focused

[Bailey]

This is a follow on to the houses.co.uk discussion - but it may just bring about some new/different perceptions.

I know I've said it a dozen times but, I am extremely grateful to Acorn for opening my eyes to the fundemental differences between the .co.uk and com market in it's current state (you nearly put me in the phsyco ward in the process).

However, In my opinion There is a danger, more so for developers than outright 'domainers' to have a narrow vision about what can be achieved with a good 'memorable' domain. I'm not trying to push any kind of philosophy - In fact in some ways the more that don't get on board the better. But I do think many at Acorn would get that same "penny dropping" moment in reverse if the put some time into studying the .com/Gtld market and sales in the gobal market general.

To discuss any easly recognised market/term with the margins and sales levels that something like "Houses" produces is beyond my comprehension when certain minds fail to see its 'bare-bones' value outside of development.

I try not to come across too smug in my understanding of the global market for domains - and some will have noticed my push to get Acorns discussions about just domaining more prevelant here at Acorn. But, there is alot to be gained for those that have built up substantial portfolios with the intention of developing but, now would rather see some end user sales.

The bottom line is I suppose i'm trying to convey is that the end-user of a domain really isn't that different here or in the States or elswhere - it's just the prevalence of sales (or dare I say lack of published UK sales) is more due to the virtual non existance of the pure domainer mentality here in the Uk.

I'm not refering to those that have a skill set that already serves them well - but more to those looking for direction

 

[websaway]

This is a follow on to the houses.co.uk discussion - but it may just bring about some new/different perceptions.

I know I've said it a dozen times but, I am extremely grateful to Acorn for opening my eyes to the fundemental differences between the .co.uk and com market in it's current state (you nearly put me in the phsyco ward in the process).

However, In my opinion There is a danger, more so for developers than outright 'domainers' to have a narrow vision about what can be achieved with a good 'memorable' domain. I'm not trying to push any kind of philosophy - In fact in some ways the more that don't get on board the better. But I do think many at Acorn would get that same "penny dropping" moment in reverse if the put some time into studying the .com/Gtld market and sales in the gobal market general.

To discuss any easly recognised market/term with the margins and sales levels that something like "Houses" produces is beyond my comprehension when certain minds fail to see its 'bare-bones' value outside of development.

I try not to come across too smug in my understanding of the global market for domains - and some will have noticed my push to get Acorns discussions about just domaining more prevelant here at Acorn. But, there is alot to be gained for those that have built up substantial portfolios with the intention of developing but, now would rather see some end user sales.

The bottom line is I suppose i'm trying to convey is that the end-user of a domain really isn't that different here or in the States or elswhere - it's just the prevalence of sales (or dare I say lack of published UK sales) is more due to the virtual non existance of the pure domainer mentality here in the Uk.

I'm not refering to those that have a skill set that already serves them well - but more to those looking for direction

You are right of course but Acorn is as much a buying as selling platform there is a conflict of interest, some people may not want to talk the prices up because they would have to pay more for there purchases. ( so it could be buy here sell elsewhere )

 

[Bailey]

So to summarise, are you saying you think some on this forum concentrate too much focus on domain names they view they, or someone else, can "develop" and

Not everyone in the world thinks the same, which is why different people see different opportunities in all sorts of words or word combinations (which is usually what a domain name is, if one forgets numericals for a moment). Much of ones way of thinking is dictated by ones life experiences and education. That's not easily changable because to gain these takes time.

.

To your first paragraph -Indeed. Yes it's a focus that does not lend itself to the long term. I love to see Acorn adopt a more cut-throat persona regarding domain discussions. But, I'm equally aware that is my steer/sucess with domains.

There very rarely is a market to be had with old stock - disregarding antiques for the moment. But, the surpising number of members that think there's a market for dated terms is worrying. And i equally took issue with Edwins philosophy of the 'stock-holding' Numbers game.

Domains are like any business. If you not "Overviewing" your market your out of touch. I do appreciate what you are saying about "skill set" And I can't tell you how thankfull I've been over the years that people have taken the time to share their knowledge with me. - it certainly never came from sitting in any class room - even if the roots started there.

Try a drop-test. what happens when you "reluctantly" let a dozen names go (run-of-the mill-stuff)- It will be painful, but those with large holdings can force themselves. Now spend a day or two analysing identities of capture or not. You might be in for a shock re-awakening that adds to your learning curve..

I consider myself very lucky and fortunate in this environment - And nope I haven't the faintest idea of any of my domains traffic and neither do I really care. I'm not trying to steer domainers into my model of operating, just an awarness of why Companies/businesses spend.

PS I've seen enough of my dropped domains being offered for sale here at Acorn - to sometimes think maybe the 'Uk domain' world does end at the end of my road - and thats not good. Perhaps Nominet have themselves to blame.

I hope nothing said is seen as arrogance - just observation

 

[cc976a]

What would be considered to cause the biggest differences between the UK and, say, the US market?

 

[Bailey]

What would be considered to cause the biggest differences between the UK and, say, the US market?

Outside of the pure short generics - which serve well anywhere in the World.

I would call it the "Capture" - the once seen not forgotten element of domains. In these instances your already talking to (or want to be) your market segment - for it (the domain) to deliver. And by the way that's not your job to deliver - identifying with it is

For instance - In one of my other threads i've talked about being stalked for apparently 11 years over a .Com domain. The reasoning of my stalker dosen't pass me by. But I did laugh when someone indicated "If no other interest in 11 years - it may have no value"

 

[websaway]

What would be considered to cause the biggest differences between the UK and, say, the US market?

Could the different perspective between America and the uk be that the .com is shared by 6 billion while the .co.uk by only 60 million

 

[cc976a]

It's true if you compare the UK to a global market of 6 billion - but I have also seen thread/s that compare a slow-down in the UK domain buying market compared with US (300m residents) and Germany (80m residents)

Just curious - if it's true - what's causing such a difference considering we have a 'global economic crisis' and the UK is not really far behind on net or technology

 

[Bailey]

Could the different perspective between America and the uk be that the .com is shared by 6 billion while the .co.uk by only 60 million

That's a bearing that's being totally over simplified:

The Uk domain market has to a large extent been captured by it's own players - I include myself.

I hate to see the "share what you know" contingent being bated by "defend what you don't"

Why on earth do you think you see such a vast.org.uk strategy in the Uk namespace - less domain buyers perhaps.

 

[websaway]

I think the americans seen the opportuities in name investing long before the Brits and we have some catching up to do.
A company can buy there descriptive generic brandable for a reasonable price and it remains an increasing asset of the business as well as providing trading benefits. The americans can digest this principle quite easily, the Brits in the main can't.
Imagine if you are selling a building company, asking price might be £2,500,000, your marketing strategy might be to own BuildingCompany co uk ok you buy it for £xx,xxx but how much does this add to the chances of selling the company and really it's at nill actual cost because the name still retains it's value. This is just one example of this type of opportunity which identifies domain values.

 

[Edwin]

I think Brits in general* "choke" far more at the idea of paying £x,xxx or £xx,xxx for something that only (they imagine) "cost" £6 in the first place than Americans do.

The latter are more pragmatic, and are much more willing to see the business benefits behind a transaction whereas the former are too busy seething about the unfairness of somebody having got there before them to see the real benefits beyond.

*while that may be "in general", there can still be a lot of exceptions

That's tangentially related to both of my most recent blog posts...
http://www.webmastering.co.uk/domain-names/the-myth-of-the-domain-name-queue-of-one/
http://www.webmastering.co.uk/domai...to-redefine-sea-level-in-domain-name-pricing/

 

[websaway]

I think Brits in general* "choke" far more at the idea of paying £x,xxx or £xx,xxx for something that only (they imagine) "cost" £6 in the first place than Americans do.

The latter are more pragmatic, and are much more willing to see the business benefits behind a transaction whereas the former are too busy seething about the unfairness of somebody having got there before them to see the real benefits beyond.

*while that may be "in general", there can still be a lot of exceptions

That's tangentially related to both of my most recent blog posts...
http://www.webmastering.co.uk/domain-names/the-myth-of-the-domain-name-queue-of-one/
http://www.webmastering.co.uk/domai...to-redefine-sea-level-in-domain-name-pricing/

You may be being a little synical over this reg fee issue, when you've got as many domains as you, you are bound to communicate with a lot of idiot wannaowns.
Generally I would say this is a symptom of haven't yet found the right buyer.
The right buyer is always someone who wants to own the domain name more than you do.

 

[Edwin]

You may be being a little synical over this reg fee issue, when you've got as many domains as you, you are bound to communicate with a lot of idiot wannaowns.
Generally I would say this is a symptom of haven't yet found the right buyer.
The right buyer is always someone who wants to own the domain name more than you do.

Over a third of all the rejections I receive - and I receive a LOT - paraphrase the "regfee" issue in one way or another. So no, I'd say I'm being accurate, based on experience.

 

[websaway]

Over a third of all the rejections I receive - and I receive a LOT - paraphrase the "regfee" issue in one way or another. So no, I'd say I'm being accurate, based on experience.

I think this is exactly my point you know. All prospects don't actually really believe in there objections, they are just a convenient objection to the purchase, what I'm saying is, this means you have not identified the right buyer, my years of experience in sales has shown me that the seller can become synical over objections that they cannot overcome,but, they were never going to overcome the objection because it's not real.
We would all buy rembrandts if we could just pay for the cost of the canvas and the paint, but we are not real buyers.

 

[olebean]

the biggest difference could be the UK regulatory bodies and "large instituition" view on intangibles. The UK is way behind other "advanced" societies, in many instances even academic research is framed in maxist labour theory... In other words, intangibles cannot have value for its own sake...

I read Dr H.B. presentation from DF with interest, he attributs brand value through human carriers, while corporate brand value may exist, the lack of linearity in the search, CTR, sales suggest he might consider studying "incompetence" not "competence", i'm confident he'll suggest it's the web that is broken...

A broken web, but .UK is more broken than .com.. discuss.. lol

 

[olebean]

Over a third of all the rejections I receive - and I receive a LOT - paraphrase the "regfee" issue in one way or another. So no, I'd say I'm being accurate, based on experience.

I agree, selling prices ≠ value at exchange.. most users/ businesses don't compare worlds to understand value..

 

[Skinner]

I usually just tell the reg fee brigade, I didn't buy it at reg fee, I bought it for many multiples more. I then send them to Sedo, DNJournal, and Domain Prices and tell them to watch long enough and they'll be able to pick up a bargain like I did, now make me a serious offer

A little misleading in drop caught or hand reg names but my collection is tipping the scale more toward caught names with a smallish gap between bought names and hand reg names are now sinking into minority for me.

 

[techtimmy]

Any way some of you more successful domainers can promote the value of domains to the general public. Godaddy advertising mid Superbowl for example shows the entire US that domaining is big business.

How about a UK consortium of domainers advertising on TV in magazines. Might stimulate the market and help promote sales for us small fry as well

 

[Brassneck]

Any way some of you more successful domainers can promote the value of domains to the general public. Godaddy advertising mid Superbowl for example shows the entire US that domaining is big business.

How about a UK consortium of domainers advertising on TV in magazines. Might stimulate the market and help promote sales for us small fry as well

Edwin did some magazine advertising - I haven't see him mention if it was successful or not.

This sort of marketing ought to be the kind of thing that a company with the resources of Sedo could get involved in but I am not going to hold my breath.

 

[Bailey]

Just as a short add-on. Godaddy are possibly looking at a bigger presence the UK domain market. They are sponsoring some events that suit their image I believe. A couple of weeks ago i got a nice phonecall from my account manager asking if I wanted some complimentary admission tickets with access to a Godaddy hospitality area for some fighting event being held in London. Seemed pretty popular event but I just said it wouldn't be my scene - besides the audience pictures from a USA similar event - made them all look like testosterone hunks.

Of course I was absolutely chuffed, to be asked - But, then I thought Hmm they're definitely earning too much from me

For all our moans and groans a couple of nice big campaign/media events by somebody like Godaddy in the UK could do wonders -

 

[Bailey]

I think Brits in general* "choke" far more at the idea of paying £x,xxx or £xx,xxx for something that only (they imagine) "cost" £6 in the first place than Americans do.

The latter are more pragmatic, and are much more willing to see the business benefits behind a transaction whereas the former are too busy seething about the unfairness of somebody having got there before them to see the real benefits beyond.

For someone that to my mind concentrated on the UK market - You are spot on Edwin. Of course, as you say, there are exceptions. But, you can't fault the American attitude that "todays market" isn't yesterdays