Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[Retired_Member38]

Mate that just isn't true,. at the moment Nominet turns their website off for 60 days and high valued names still drop. Nominet isn't going to be suspending any of the websites this. The vast majority will not get through, but valued names will get through, to me there is no doubt about it, it's just a mathematical certainty.

Yes but there is a massive mathematical difference when you look at drops compared to a new launch.

With drops, there is only person for anyone to contact. If people can't track this single owner down, it drops.

With a new launch like this, you are going to need a set of circumstances where every one of the .co.uk, .org.uk, .me.uk etc owners couldn't be contacted.

Plus the time period to track them down is significantly extended. You're comparing 60 days to track down 1 single person, to 6 months to track down 1 of 3 people (even more if there is a ltd.uk etc)

 

[namealot]

Or £0 - £100 because the seller knows a lost DRS on his record is going to look horrendous when it comes to further disputes later (which is almost inevitable if he's done this in bulk). He would be better selling or giving away rather than losing at a DRS surely.

Maybe its just me, but if the seller in those circumstances asked me for £200 I'd just pay £750 on principal and DRS it.

There are plenty of bulk and individual registrants who you’ll never know who the real owner is regardless of noms policy etc? Some are very smart at it? loosing a DRS would make no difference at all the registrant name is through away? what do they care if you take them to DRS out of principle there’s also the chance they win..? Is the name immaterial to you or your trying to portray/dictate a position of power over the seller with the threat of DRS unless they sell at a price you like? Seams a little floored as a business plan if the threat don’t work ?

 

[Retired_Member38]

You've lost me, do you mean flawed rather than floored?

 

[namealot]

You've lost me, do you mean flawed rather than floored?

Didn’t realize it was being assessed on spelling etc yes flawed

 

[Retired_Member38]

Not spelling, but I just wasn't sure what you meant.

I think what you're suggesting someone could do is possible, but not very likely. Its not going to make them much money, and they're going to lose any DRS they enter. Any .co.uk owner who posts on a business forum asking how they can get the '.uk thats been stolen from me' is going to be told this. So they know a DRS costs £750. They can then decide whether to negotiate to buy it for less than this. Or DRS it.

Either way they're going to end up with the domain they wanted. Its not a PR disaster or a major problem... just a minor inconvenience and a relatively small expense.

 

[GreyWing]

Plus the time period to track them down is significantly extended. You're comparing 60 days to track down 1 single person, to 6 months to track down 1 of 3 people (even more if there is a ltd.uk etc)

It is going to reduce it, but I'm 100% sure some names that will sell for over £10,000 will get through.

 

[namealot]

Some early registered names org.uk and co.uk were registered at the same time (at least I know I have) the co.uk has been sold on many times since the org.uk however hasn’t the difference in registration is seconds and not sure which was first( I do know which was billed and paid or at least invoiced first )what about pre nom day do they have a record of exact times down too seconds or just day or hour anyone know ? Thought the naming committee was just the day?

 

[Stephen]

Nominet help

...I think what you're suggesting someone could do is possible, but not very likely. Its not going to make them much money, and they're going to lose any DRS they enter. Any .co.uk owner who posts on a business forum asking how they can get the '.uk thats been stolen from me' is going to be told this. So they know a DRS costs £750. They can then decide whether to negotiate to buy it for less than this. Or DRS it.

Either way they're going to end up with the domain they wanted. Its not a PR disaster or a major problem... just a minor inconvenience and a relatively small expense.

Hopefully Nominet (if it goes ahead) can offer a "free" service to help 3rd level owners who did not get the equivalent .uk,
where it is clear case of cyber-squatting and you know in a few minutes based on the evidence,
then Nominet can contact the new .uk owner and advice they will provide a free DRS to the other domain holder.

For non-clear cases Nominet can still offer to help mediate and advise they can always take a DRS action.

Nominet did offer to help with .wales and in .nz the registry offered to help with disputes.

Let's hope Nominet can show they would be pro-active, rather than say there is the DRS,
as £750 is a lot of money the vast majority of people, otherwise there be no such thing as pay day loans (sorry but I could not resist).

 

[Retired_Member38]

as £750 is a lot of money the vast majority of people, otherwise there be no such thing as pay day loans.

Wheres the connection there? How many business owners do you think are using payday loans? In fact I'll tell you... give me 10 mins

edit - none of the last 250 applicants listed as either company directors or self employed.

 

[GreyWing]

Let's hope Nominet can show they would be pro-active, rather than say there is the DRS, as £750 is a lot of money the vast majority of people, otherwise there be no such thing as pay day loans.

Thing is mate, nobody has to use the DRS. As I understand it from the Emirates findings. Those in disputes can bypass DRS and go to court, as long as they don't swap and change. They have to choose at the start, not pick and change.

If Nominet confirm in a DRS that the new owners have all the rights to .uk, then brands will go to court for remedies. If a court agrees, and a precedent set ion law that they are passing off, the .uk will be in turmoil and in effect .co.uk will be in turmoil having now become the second platform in the uk.

All be one big big mess, I don't think DRS's will sort this out to be honest. Unless they admit .uk's are confusing with .co.uk's. I can't see them doing that. So businesses will bypass it.

 

[Stephen]

£750 a lot of money?

Wheres the connection there? How many business owners do you think are using payday loans? In fact I'll tell you... give me 10 mins

Very Sorry, I could not resist, after you keep stating that £750 is not a lot of money.

If there was no other pressures on a business and no other unexpected costs then
many could afford £750 but why should they have to, just because of Nominet's action in releasing .uk domain this way.

I believe £750 is a lot of money to many businesses and many will have lots of domains,
I have over 100 active domains so £750 x 100 = £75,000
that by most standards would be a lot.

But if your opinion is £750 is not a lot of money to all businesses and charities, then I accept that is your view.

 

[Retired_Member38]

The 'real' court option is likely not a viable route for the butcher, baker or candlestick maker who's clearly having his domain squatted on... the costs would potentially be massive. Obviously brands can do this, and even the threat of huge legal bills could be enough to force someone to turn over a legitimate domain.

I'm no solicitor so this is just my layman's view... but it seems impossible that a precedent could be set in court for .uk 'passing off'. Outside of an obvious hatchet job on a brand (like someone using Asda.uk to sell groceries) the domain extension alone is never going to be passing off. It would be relying on other factors like the site design, the adverts they run, the content they used, etc. So it would all need to be decided on an (expensive) case by case basis surely?

 

[Retired_Member38]

Very Sorry, I could not resist, after you keep stating that £750 is not a lot of money.

I've edited the post above with the answer, but in case you didn't see it the answer was none

I believe £750 is a lot of money to many businesses and many will have lots of domains, I have over 100 active domains so £750 x 100 = £75,000
that by most standards would be a lot.

I can see people with 1 or 2 domains getting caught out - the little guys who don't have an online business, they have a business which happens to have a website.

There is absolutely no way someone is going to have 100 active websites and get caught with .uk on every single one of them.

 

[Stephen]

Nominet contacting?

I would suggest that if the food standards agency has to go to a non gov.uk domain, they should have to register or buy their own .co.uk or org.uk domain, the same that anyone would have to do. Not steal someone else's domain. ......

Have Nominet contacted you as the owner of food.co.uk to advise that under the Nominet current .uk proposal, that you would not get the equivalent .uk even though you are the oldest registrant (well your domain is) with that string?

That would give you time to consider your position and / or make alternative arrangements to develop a brand on another domain name, that will be entitled to the .uk.

If not, do you think they or somebody should contact all the others effected on the list of reserved domains for non-government purposes?

 

[Retired_Member38]

Has anyone totalled up the list... how many are actually going to affect someone?

 

[Stephen]

Test Case?

The 'real' court option is likely not a viable route for the butcher, baker or candlestick maker who's clearly having his domain squatted on... the costs would potentially be massive. Obviously brands can do this, and even the threat of huge legal bills could be enough to force someone to turn over a legitimate domain.

I'm no solicitor so this is just my layman's view... but it seems impossible that a precedent could be set in court for .uk 'passing off'. Outside of an obvious hatchet job on a brand (like someone using Asda.uk to sell groceries) the domain extension alone is never going to be passing off. It would be relying on other factors like the site design, the adverts they run, the content they used, etc. So it would all need to be decided on an (expensive) case by case basis surely?

Agree about the costs, huge beyond belief. Glad we could agree on what's expensive.

I think it looks like wanting a test case, where a UK court rules that any domain ending with .uk is confusing similar to .co.uk, regardless of the string, the website or intent.

If such a test case was won, it would indeed throw the UK namespace into massive disarray and paralysis.

The case could only be brought out after the .uk was released and stats provided about .co.uk and .uk joint ownership would need to be very high and a few other factors would need to be taken into account.

 

[Stephen]

Base numbers

Has anyone totalled up the list... how many are actually going to affect someone?

Can you please clarify the question, unless the following deals with it.

Below is an email I sent to Nominet earlier today:

Regarding the new proposal for .uk, with the .uk going to the oldest registered UK domain (of selected 3rd level tld’s)

Can you please provide the statistics on how many .tld extensions are currently (or recently when you ran the numbers)
At the front of the queue for the equivalent .uk domain

e.g. 10,000,000 total uk domains
1st in queue

9,040,000 .co.uk
40,000 .org.uk
10,000 .me.uk
5,000 .sch.uk
2,500 .plc.uk
2,500 .ltd.uk

Thanks in anticipation of a full reply.​

Hopefully the answer will give us base numbers.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Sorry, I meant in the 150 list of gov.uk's which were given exceptions. Some of those already owned all the extensions anyway, some weren't registered etc. Has anyone totalled up how many Food's and Independents's are on the list?

 

[Stephen]

Media stories now online

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/02/nominet_second_level_domain_registrations/

In a move to try to convince those respondents to embrace .uk domain name registrations, the privately held, not-for-profit outfit is opening up its revised plan to yet another consultation process.

As one Register reader observed:

Is this like the Ireland Euro referendum, if you don't get the answer you want, keep asking until you do?

Nominet, of course, paints things differently.

Its boss Lesley Cowley said that the company had listened to the criticism and added that "the revised proposal is significantly different as a result".

 

[Edwin]

They don't say, my bet is auctions

Is nobody reading the actual documents? They've made it very clear that ALL auctions are off the table - the whole release mechanism has been developed in such a way as to do away with them completely.