Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[GreyWing]

V2 is not talking about .uk being "for business" any more.

lol come on... this is getting a bit silly

 

[Rob_F]

lol come on... this is getting a bit silly

Indeed.

- Rob

 

[Edwin]

lol come on... this is getting a bit silly

Why? Comments will be received from the wider business community and other stakeholders based on the content of V2 i.e. what's in front of them. Or do you really think they're going to go back six months and argue about stuff that's not even on the table any more?

What used to be in V1 is interesting from a historic perspective (the road not taken, etc.) but irrelevant at this point.

Remember, only 5% of comments to V1 came from within the "domainer" community. That's less than 40 people within our industry who took the time to prepare a detailed response. And that's why it's so important to at least try to see how the content of V2 will be perceived by other interest groups, since they will inevitably be supplying the majority of responses.

 

[GreyWing]

Remember, only 5% of comments to V1 came from within the "domainer" community.

lol, how do you know that? They have never defined a domainer for a start. I don't even know how to define one.

 

[Edwin]

lol, how do you know that? They have never defined a domainer for a start. I don't even know how to define one.

http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/SummaryofdirectukFeedback_1.pdf (page 8)

A quarter of all channel respondents was active in the secondary market and constituted approximately 5% of all respondents to the consultation.

 

[Murray]

Here is a question.

With V1 being so different from V2 how can nominet claim to have a clear purpose and reason for releasing direct.uk at all?

Clearly there is a hidden agenda and the two proposed reasons are a public front.

 

[Edwin]

Here is a question.

With V1 being so different from V2 how can nominet claim to have a clear purpose and reason for releasing direct.uk at all?

Clearly there is a hidden agenda and the two proposed reasons are a public front.

Here's the problem: even if there IS a hidden agenda (I'm not saying there is, but I'm allowing for the possibility) then who exactly should one "tell" about it to be assured of getting the whole process sorted out? I'm afraid I don't see anyone out there who can play that kind of role to the depth that would be needed to prove such an assertion.

 

[GreyWing]

That's not what you said though, you said 'domainers'. I'd be amazed if anyone at Nominet ever defined a "domainer".

"A quarter of all channel respondents was active in the secondary market and
constituted approximately 5% of all respondents to the consultation."

I'd also be amazed if they are saying that they received approximately 40 consultations from what you describe as domainers. That just doesn't sound right to me.

 

[GreyWing]

Here's the problem: even if there IS a hidden agenda (I'm not saying there is, but I'm allowing for the possibility) then who exactly should one "tell" about it to be assured of getting the whole process sorted out?

Hidden agenda, is your registrar membership at Nominet going to allow you to register and administrate these .uk's?

I'm looking at what is going on and I am thinking you need to be an accredited partner. So when this comes out, I think you will need to go through 123-reg etc to renew your names, and of course pay their prices.

 

[max_rk]

Edwin and Monkey,

Despite what V2 does not say, it will be mostly commercial domain adapted by most existing .co.uk registrants and that is good. Let say that is not the case, what then? Confusion.

Monkey you talking about general public, but will they be please if their emails go to wrong place or they get to wrong website?

Confusion between domain.co.uk, domain.uk, domainco.uk is real problem. Users can be educated but only slowly.

That is why I am advocating for .uk release only to .co.uk registrants, to minimise confusion. Ok if .co.uk is not interested then give a everyone else a go. .co.uk, org.uk, me.uk, ltd.uk .... is not the same and please don’t compare apples with oranges.

 

[Murray]

Here's the problem: even if there IS a hidden agenda (I'm not saying there is, but I'm allowing for the possibility) then who exactly should one "tell" about it to be assured of getting the whole process sorted out? I'm afraid I don't see anyone out there who can play that kind of role to the depth that would be needed to prove such an assertion.

Wouldn't the changes between V1 and V2 prove that there must be a hidden agenda?

Saying V1 was for business, now it's not, even just that is a massive change so how can they claim to have a clear purpose and reason for direct.uk at all.

 

[domainseller200]

The only people who don't want .org.uk names to have equal rights as .co.uk names, are those who have invested into .co.uk domains as a domainer mainly through catching so the registration dates are usually after the .org.uk registrant dates.

If they had invested into .org.uk names instead, the argument would be reversed. Whichever way it is being dressed up, that is the real reason.

 

[Edwin]

That's not what you said though, you said 'domainers'. I'd be amazed if anyone at Nominet ever defined a "domainer".

"A quarter of all channel respondents was active in the secondary market and
constituted approximately 5% of all respondents to the consultation."

I'd also be amazed if they are saying that they received approximately 40 consultations from what you describe as domainers. That just doesn't sound right to me.

I am using "domainer" as a shorthand for "people who buy and sell domains". I picked the word, not them. That's the same as Nominet's 5%.

You're right, though - "domainers" who stockpile but don't sell wouldn't be included in the 5% figure.

I think we're all deluding ourselves a bit about the wider level of interest in the subject because there are a core group who believe passionately about the topic (with various views) and go back and forth again and again until the overall "volume" feels a lot louder than it really is. But for every "domainer" (however we define the term) posting here on Acorn, there are probably 10 sitting quietly on the sidelines watching - or not paying any attention to Acorn at all.

 

[Edwin]

The only people who don't want .org.uk names to have equal rights as .co.uk names, are those who have invested into .co.uk domains as a domainer mainly through catching so the registration dates are usually after the .org.uk registrant dates.

If they had invested into .org.uk names instead, the argument would be reversed. Whichever way it is being dressed up, that is the real reason.

Spot on analysis. If you leave .org.uk registrants out of the picture completely, that's a whole sub-set of Nominet's customer base who will have been completely ignored.

 

[GreyWing]

The only people who don't want .org.uk names to have equal rights as .co.uk names, are those who have invested into .co.uk domains as a domainer mainly through catching so the registration dates are usually after the .org.uk registrant dates.

If they had invested into .org.uk names instead, the argument would be reversed. Whichever way it is being dressed up, that is the real reason.

Sorry Frank that's a crazy statement. I don't see how you come to that. The argument I have always said is that regardless of the release mechanism except to pair. Innocent members of the public won't take up their .uk (regardless of the ad campaign and will be cybersquatted on before realising what has happened in about 4-5 years as they head to domainers to buy them back.

 

[Murray]

The only people who don't want .org.uk names to have equal rights as .co.uk names, are those who have invested into .co.uk domains as a domainer mainly through catching so the registration dates are usually after the .org.uk registrant dates.

& a lot of businesses that purchased drop caught domains over the past decade.

I'm currently putting together (an all be it limited) list of premium co.uk's that were registered since 2004 and are currently in the hands of (to the best of my knowledge) non domainers, indicating that they were almost certainly purchased for a fair sum of money from a domainer.

Those companies believed they were getting the premium .uk to represent their business, now suddenly for no clear reason nominet want to introduce direct.uk.. not exactly fair.

 

[max_rk]

The only people who don't want .org.uk names to have equal rights as .co.uk names, are those who have invested into .co.uk domains as a domainer mainly through catching so the registration dates are usually after the .org.uk registrant dates.

If they had invested into .org.uk names instead, the argument would be reversed. Whichever way it is being dressed up, that is the real reason.

I can declare my position. I am old catcher, most of my .co.uk predate .org.uk. Even if some my .uk’s would be taken by registrants of org.uk, they would risk using it and sending visitors to me because most .uk sites will have co.uk and that is how general public will see it.

I have seen lost of problems that domains have with user confusion. Confusion on big scale I think can derail trust in users and many will lose. I don’t think you have given any thoughts to the comments. I believe most of users don’t want confusion, email and traffic leaks, cybersquoting.

 

[Edwin]

When that gets picked up by the national media and is spun as Nominet giving the keys to the safe to "cybersquatters" it will become a PR nightmare for the secondary market and Nominet.

Why would that be a bigger PR nightmare than having tens of thousands of charities/non-profits "lose" the .uk to someone who's holding a more recent domain registration than theirs.

I think we all need to recognise that there is no "everyone wins" scenario, apart from maintaining the current system as-is. If that happens, we can all relax, happy. But I'm not particularly convinced it will.

So the question is: which scenario creates the smallest number of losers?

 

[max_rk]

I'm not going to name the domain but one of the UK's most well known high street brands who bought their domain off a member of this forum (it was previously a drop) will not be given the .uk under these proposals because another member of the forum has the .org.uk with an earlier registration date.

When that story gets picked up by the national media and is spun as Nominet giving the keys to the safe to "cybersquatters" it will become a PR nightmare for the secondary market and Nominet.

Exactly. That is why only .co.uk should have the rights to .uk.

 

[GreyWing]

I'm not going to name the domain but one of the UK's most well known high street brands who bought their domain off a member of this forum (it was previously a drop) will not be given the .uk under these proposals because another member of the forum has the .org.uk with an earlier registration date.

When that story gets picked up by the national media and is spun as Nominet giving the keys to the safe to "cybersquatters" it will become a PR nightmare for the secondary market and Nominet.

I agree Sean, and I know it's the tip of the iceberg. MisSoldcouk.uk I fancy starting a claims company all of a sudden.

I think some on here would describe them as collateral damage same as every other poor sod.