Nominet announces new policy consultation for expiring .UK domains

[ian]

I buy some every so often. Whether I buy them from todays best cheater, UKBA, DL, Acorn, a new player like Flip.uk or Nominet directly its all the same to me. I would just like to see a fair playing field for everyone. And right now competing against tag collusion and armies of Bulgarians isn't fair for anyone involved.

Genuine question, if you invest rather than register (drop catch), why do you consider the current setup to be a problem for you? Most domains going up for sale, is it who catchers (in the case of the Bulgarians that are the exception) or a certain platform that get a majority share you prefer not to buy from?

 

[super-whois]

I don't see what value add Denis and his "tag partner" brought to the table on Helptobuy.org.uk to collect £20,000 each, do you?

A lot more than the £37,000 odd per year David Thornton gets with his many aliases on here, when he's meant to be representing members.

 

[Derek]

The point being perhaps there should be more criteria at Nominets end. What mates a plumber from Norwich up with a domain industry. Would said friend be willing to look someone in the eyes at Nominet and blag their way through? This could help imo.

What criteria would you like to use? Plumbers aren't allowed a tag, okay. What if the plumber has a computer science degree? What if his buddy with money but genuinely no tech knowledge is investing in him (ie not a multi tag, but how can you quickly tell that?) Any rules like this don't really seem to be enforceable at all, or scaleable without wide scale cheating. Which leaves us back in the exact same position we are in today. I'd be interested to see any blanket rules that people think would be workable on a practical basis for this.

Genuine question, if you invest rather than register (drop catch), why do you consider the current setup to be a problem for you? Most domains going up for sale, is it who catchers (in the case of the Bulgarians that are the exception) or a certain platform that get a majority share you prefer not to buy from?

The biggest problem in past months would be the Bulgarians cheating then listing domains for sale for a price that isn't really in line with market values. I'm okay with Rob or Denis and their "partner tags" catching more than their fair share as they'd generally be pushed through public sales and the price they'll sell for is what they are worth. If I want to buy them I can. What I am selfishly concerned about is the Bulgarians making a return to their cheating ways and running riot with the catching and I can't get access to any of the domains I wanted. Outside of the Bulgarians, BHAYDOM certainly seemed to have a fair bit of luck that I'd rather he didn't have.

 

[webber]

With all the brexit talks quieting down recently, I forgot how much xenophobia there is... Thanks for the reminder

 

[super-whois]

What criteria would you like to use?

Hello again David. It's quite ironic that you're trying to delude us with multiple aliases.

 

[Derek]

What value does buying US-based cyber security company CyGlass bring to the UK registry for domain names? I don't recall voting for the registry of .uk domains to take on a strategy of acquisitions in US-based cyber security businesses.

I have no idea what value CyGlass bring. I'll play along though and go with the answer of "none". Two wrongs don't make a right and I don't see the relevance to drop catching domains.

Why not fix the faults in the current system? An excuse to end it all I agree on, as someone said earlier in this thread, I believe by neglecting to take action on complaints, or make changes to the system, they've actively allowed this to build to a position where they can simply end it all as you say.

How would you fix it? You can't stop tag collusion and you can't stop people creating accounts that are linked to each other. With the money involved its simply impossible. I could walk into my local pub or job centre tomorrow morning and walk back out with scans and selfies of 20 people with their government id. If you need me to pay via these peoples bank accounts I can do that too, but I'll need till Monday to organise it all. I don't think its realistic to fix the current system.

To play devil's advocate, how do you know it's an unfair playing field? If you're just purchasing domains via aftermarket sellers/auction platforms.

Perhaps its all entirely fair, and random Bulgarian people keep catching valuable domains, then transferring them to Kalin. Perhaps its another coincidence that certain UK based tags and tag cartels are acting the way they are.

Or perhaps if it walks like a duck....

 

[Murray]

How would you fix it?

Just look into the reports people send in? and if they have merit take action

 

[3gmedia]

What mates a plumber from Norwich up with a domain industry.

That's hilarious, I'm a plumber with a TAG

 

[Derek]

Just look into the reports people send in? and if they have merit take action

How can you prove it though? Look at the recent high profile ones everyones been posting about. We can all see what's going on but its not very likely you'd ever have 100% proof. So where can you go from there? Let them continue as a profitable suspected cheater until caught? It just starts a war of cheating, as to compete you need to join in. Then once you have even a small number of "tag partner" gangs the honest single player has no hope at all.

 

[mcrick]

Nominet taking most or all of the money. I don't see what value add Denis and his "tag partner" brought to the table on Helptobuy.org.uk to collect £20,000 each, do you?

I don’t know how it’s been possible for hosted catching services to operate in this way for so long because mandating one of your supposed customers to send a caught domain name to auction and mandating they hand over a percentage of the final sale value isn’t operating at arms length. Charging a fixed service fee per month or fees based on a sliding scale depending on the number of domain names registered is at arms length.

Also for clarification, the proposed economically controlled access options would include nil connections for drop catching by default and would be restricted to registrars who are also members. To receive the minimal number of connections of six necessitates spending £600p/a for the minimal 6 connections and £100p/a for membership (or £1200 p/a for 12, £1800 p/a for 18 all the way up to £6000 p/a for 60 connections and £100 p/a membership).

 

[ian]

That's hilarious, I'm a plumber with a TAG

If you are from Norwich too I'll take back my argument entirely.

 

[Murray]

How can you prove it though? Look at the recent high profile ones everyones been posting about. We can all see what's going on but its not very likely you'd ever have 100% proof. So where can you go from there? Let them continue as a profitable suspected cheater until caught? It just starts a war of cheating, as to compete you need to join in. Then once you have even a small number of "tag partner" gangs the honest single player has no hope at all.

Personally I have no idea

I'm sure people like Denys and Rob could come up with something

 

[mcrick]

Personally I have no idea

I'm sure people like Denys and Rob could come up with something

You personally have no idea but you’re also sure someone else you know could come up with an answer. Doesn’t make sense.

 

[StudioVision]

once you have even a small number of "tag partner" gangs the honest single player has no hope at all.

This is simply untrue. There are already AT LEAST a small number of "tag partner" gangs - I operate singlehandedly, within the rules/AUP and make a substantial amount of profit per year from my dropcaught domains, all of which will evaporate overnight if the current system/way of doing things changes.

I find it very unfair and unsatisfactory that Nominet have taken my registration fee for the last however many years when (if?) they have no way of policing access to their own systems, and everyone has been able to cheat and gain an advantage over people like myself that stick to the rules that Nominet have set out.

 

[3gmedia]

If you are from Norwich too I'll take back my argument entirely.

Sorry, Cardiff

 

[Derek]

Personally I have no idea

I'm sure people like Denys and Rob could come up with something

If you have no idea then perhaps its not a good idea.

Asking Denis and Rob to help come up with the idea would be like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.

 

[mcrick]

This is simply untrue. There are already AT LEAST a small number of "tag partner" gangs - I operate singlehandedly, within the rules/AUP an make a substantial amount of profit per year from my dropcaught domains, all of which will evaporate overnight if the current system/way of doing things changes.

I find it very unfair and unsatisfactory that Nominet have taken my registration fee for the last however many years when (if?) they have no way of policing access to their own systems, and everyone has been able to cheat and gain an advantage over people like myself that stick to the rules that Nominet have set out themselves.

So you’re complaining because you’ve done very well “for the last however many years” and have profited substantially, but now it all might change and end because you don’t want to adapt? How long did you feel you were entitled to expect the status quo to have remained? Your lifetime? (Same question to @Nigel @Murray and anyone else).

 

[Murray]

You know full well how to spell Denys name tut tut

I'd trust Denys and Rob to have enough knowledge and data to be able to prove who is doing what or at least have a good suspicion to look into further

I don't need to know how to make a website to be able to say someone else does, for example

 

[Derek]

This is simply untrue. There are already AT LEAST a small number of "tag partner" gangs - I operate singlehandedly, within the rules/AUP and make a substantial amount of profit per year from my dropcaught domains, all of which will evaporate overnight if the current system/way of doing things changes.

Where are you making this substantial profit from? Couldn't you buy the domains at market value from a public auction and continue to make this substantial profit? If you couldn't then I don't see why you should feel entitled to it. I would say it was nice while it lasted but the cheaters are going to end it for you.

 

[StudioVision]

So you’re complaining because you’ve done very well “for the last however many years” and have profited substantially, but now it all might change and end because you don’t want to adapt? How long did you feel you were entitled to expect the status quo to have remained? Your lifetime? (Same question to @Nigel @Murray and anyone else).

No, I'm complaining because I've stuck to the rules and the least I expected Nominet to do was to make sure everyone else did.

I have over 22 years of development experience so should be able to adapt better than most if/when changes are made.