I agree with lots in your last post Rob. I agree there are fair arguments on both sides of the debate. I hope I'm not arguing dishonestly. I honestly was a complete floating voter all through the campaign and still didn't know what to vote for on the day of the referendum. It was a toss of the coin. In the end, because my partner is Latvian, I just went along with remain so as not to negate my partner's vote. But for years I have agreed with you that the 'Establishment' has tried to impose the European federal project on everyone. Personally, my position is more in sympathy with what we were originally sold in the 1970s - a trading relationship, not an increasingly federal superstate.
I also agree that there has been classic condescension by some towards people who supported 'leave' branding them thick, ill-educated, racist, etc. Some people *are* like that, and tbh I think fears over the scale of immigration did play a part in some people's votes. But I think generally it was just a matter of most people coming to different reasons, without desire for hatred over it. I also believe in patriotism, and if people want to determine their own future, because they're proud of their country, that's not racist. I would think that because I believe in Scottish self-determination and I'm hugely proud of Scotland. Why shouldn't English people feel that way too? And like I say, the concept of a huge, impersonal, not always accountable superstate does pose constraints on nations' sovereignty.
Set against that, my view of the world is that we face at least three huge threats: one is economic domination of the many by the oligarchs and billionaires; linked to that threat, which is motivated by growth and desire for profit for the 'haves', is the threat to our planet, and the habitats of the diverse life forms on it; and thirdly, I believe there is a threat of barbarism, often on the back of fundamentalism and populism. It is particularly this last threat that, it seems to me, makes a closely linked Europe precious - as the last, best hope for Enlightenment values which I believe in. There is a danger of Europe folding, and I think that could be very bad.
Anyway, I've tried to express my reasoning for and against, as honestly as I can. I'm diving out of this thread now. We're a domain community, and generally we get on well with one another, and politics (as is self-evident) can be divisive. I'll go with whatever outcome emerges, except that if it ends in a no-deal then I reserve the right to vote for Scottish independence.
Back to my work...
I also agree that there has been classic condescension by some towards people who supported 'leave' branding them thick, ill-educated, racist, etc. Some people *are* like that, and tbh I think fears over the scale of immigration did play a part in some people's votes. But I think generally it was just a matter of most people coming to different reasons, without desire for hatred over it. I also believe in patriotism, and if people want to determine their own future, because they're proud of their country, that's not racist. I would think that because I believe in Scottish self-determination and I'm hugely proud of Scotland. Why shouldn't English people feel that way too? And like I say, the concept of a huge, impersonal, not always accountable superstate does pose constraints on nations' sovereignty.
Set against that, my view of the world is that we face at least three huge threats: one is economic domination of the many by the oligarchs and billionaires; linked to that threat, which is motivated by growth and desire for profit for the 'haves', is the threat to our planet, and the habitats of the diverse life forms on it; and thirdly, I believe there is a threat of barbarism, often on the back of fundamentalism and populism. It is particularly this last threat that, it seems to me, makes a closely linked Europe precious - as the last, best hope for Enlightenment values which I believe in. There is a danger of Europe folding, and I think that could be very bad.
Anyway, I've tried to express my reasoning for and against, as honestly as I can. I'm diving out of this thread now. We're a domain community, and generally we get on well with one another, and politics (as is self-evident) can be divisive. I'll go with whatever outcome emerges, except that if it ends in a no-deal then I reserve the right to vote for Scottish independence.
Back to my work...
