Is Bitcoin the Next Big Thing?

[Edwin]

Have you noticed how all the people who sound bitter and negative about bitcoin, don't own any.

I'm not convinced that "bitter" and "negative" should be paired like that.

It is perfectly possible to take a negative view of something based on level-headed, rational analysis. And it would be 100% logical to expect that somebody who's reached a negative conclusion about an investment class will go on to choose not to own any assets from that class (in fact, the opposite would be weird!). That doesn't make their analysis wrong (doesn't make it right, either).

But... painting such a stance as somehow "bitter" introduces emotion into the picture that genuinely may not be there.

 

[Admin]

I'm not convinced that "bitter" and "negative" should be paired like that.

It is perfectly possible to take a negative view of something based on level-headed, rational analysis. And it would be 100% logical to expect that somebody who's reached a negative conclusion about an investment class will go on to choose not to own any assets from that class (in fact, the opposite would be weird!). That doesn't make their analysis wrong (doesn't make it right, either).

But... painting such a stance as somehow "bitter" introduces emotion into the picture that genuinely may not be there.

I agree its 'possible' and that may apply to you i.e to be negative without bitterness but it's definitely been on display in some posts by some people IMO. All good.

 

[ian]

Give me a list of the things that you can do with Bitcoin that you can't do with conventional money?

Don't have much time, but how about transferring any sum of money from one end of the world to the other in seconds (ok, Bitcoin not the best example of this at the moment, but has been, and will be again). Do that via 'conventional' money (already sitting in the bank to allow for a fair starting point) and you'd most likely have to go into the bank (as most online services seem to struggle with authorising international transactions), prove who you are, fill in paper work, pay a fee, wait for the bank to 'approve' the use of your own money, then transfer it, and as far as I'm aware, wait 72 hours for it to arrive. How is that efficient in this modern age?

Equally, the point of a significant proportion of the population not having access to a bank still rings true; albeit perhaps more important for some of the alt coins rather than Bitcoin. Most have mobile devices, just not bank accounts. It is still a valid reason for change, why should anyone in the world have less rights than anyone else.

Sadly most opinions (not saying yours) are based on what the media stir up in their pursuit of discrediting this whole sector; we know the reasons why, pressure from banks and government, which is exactly the reason why change is needed (and imo another valid reason for its benefits).

As said though, not a Bitcoin holder, far better projects out there.

 

[Edwin]

I agree its 'possible' and that may apply to you i.e to be negative without bitterness but it's definitely been on display in some posts by some people IMO. All good.

Fairy nuff!

 

[Edwin]

BTW when we’re talking about stuff like Paypal, it’s also worth remembering Tencent’s WeChat mobile payment platform, which is used by over 600 million Chinese. It already transacts an order of magnitude more business than any “Western” mobile payment system, and the expectation is that it will pass $1 trillion in monthly transactions before too long.

It’s popular enough that merchants outside China are scrambling to support it as a payment mechanism.

 

[RobM]

Have you noticed how all the people who sound bitter and negative about bitcoin, don't own any.

Have you noticed how all the people who sound smug and positive about bitcoin, own some? See what I did there? It's very unlikely that people negative about it would own any - that would be rather stupid. As you equate negativity automatically with bitterness (because you desperately want/need it to increase in value so you can sell it for fiat currency at a profit) you think that insults are the only way to validate your position. That makes you rather negative and bitter

 

[ausername]

Don't have much time, but how about transferring any sum of money from one end of the world to the other in seconds (ok, Bitcoin not the best example of this at the moment, but has been, and will be again). Do that via 'conventional' money (already sitting in the bank to allow for a fair starting point) and you'd most likely have to go into the bank (as most online services seem to struggle with authorising international transactions), prove who you are, fill in paper work, pay a fee, wait for the bank to 'approve' the use of your own money, then transfer it, and as far as I'm aware, wait 72 hours for it to arrive. How is that efficient in this modern age?

When I log on to my personal internet banking (HSBC) I can move money to any bank account in the world and it hit their account within minutes.... I can transfer up to £50,000. I just need the recipients IBAN number in addition to their usual account number and sort code.

I get small payments from Amazon KDP (kindle direct publishing) and they are even paying me something like $1 with an IBAN transfer.

Also, HSBC will guarantee that the exchange rate at the point of transfer at my end is the exchange rate they will get at their end.... whereas with Bitcoin if the verification is delayed, the seller or buyer could be left feeling out of pocket due to fluctuations.

The cost of transferring up to £50k in a matter of minutes, with an exchange rate guarantee = £4 if to another bank (any bank), £0 if it is to another HSBC account (anywhere in the world).

I make that a 0.008% fee on a transfer of £50,000....

This is why I'm saying that I don't think this problem actually exists, either the 'speed' thing or the 'low cost' thing.... perhaps this was valid in 2011, or even 2013, but I don't think in 2018 there is any problem here to try and solve. And that may be why Bitcoin is now started to position itself as a 'store of wealth' instead of a currency for transactions.

If anybody here lives overseas and has an HSBC account I'd be happy to transfer them £1 so we can put this to the test.

There's also other ways of transferring fiat of course, such as paypal. Even if I had to credit my paypal account with my debit card and then transfer to another paypal account... I'm pretty sure I could get this done within 15 minutes, 30 minutes?.

 

[ausername]

Have you noticed how all the people who sound bitter and negative about bitcoin, don't own any.

I'm about 250% more bitter about the litecoin I sold.

 

[ausername]

Listening to people discuss Bitcoin, I can't help but think each side is arguing as much to convince themselves as they are to convince their opponent.

Which side is responsible for contributing to a situation whereby people are remortgaging their homes and maxing out their credit cards to get in on the hype train, either directly or indirectly, does that side have a vested interest in encouraging this or not discouraging it, and do you think there will be more suicides from people who have bought too much and too late or those who have bought too little or sold too early?

I personally think those who are pessimistic / highly cautious are acting more responsibly then those who put their fingers in their ears and go "la la la la la" when there are some very loud warning bells going off.

 

[ausername]

I agree its 'possible' and that may apply to you i.e to be negative without bitterness but it's definitely been on display in some posts by some people IMO. All good.

Pretty sure when Bitcoin was at $20,000 I was congratulating people for their success.... so why would I be more bitter at $11,000.... But a few of us suggested that late December might be a good time to liquidate some bitcoin, and bagholders said stuff like "why should we listen to people who don't have any bitcoin".

And now they know why, because those of us who aren't emotionally invested pay more attention to huge things happening like the Litecoin founder bailing out of crypto at the market top, whilst those who are emotionally invested are more likely to be in denial about things like this.... one of them, on here, said something like "oh that's just because he's eccentric"..... Nope, its because he's really f*cking smart.

 

[BG]

I like the the idea of a functional decentralized currency you can use to quickly send money around for the world for fairly insignificant fees

And this dear Murray is why Ripple, albeit not a cryptocurrency will imo become the leading blockchain for the financial sector, enabling those 'instant' transactions worldwide at extremely low low fees. People keep asking me should i invest in XRP? My answer tends to be... Buy 'shares' in the company as I believe it's going to be a world leader in this sector and a serious force to be reckoned with.

 

[dee]

If anybody here lives overseas and has an HSBC account I'd be happy to transfer them £1 so we can put this to the test.

I can set one up, but we might need to test it say 5000 times and average out the time ?

 

[ausername]

I can set one up, but we might need to test it say 5000 times and average out the time ?

I wish I had £5000 in my account mate, I'm skint

 

[dee]

I wish I had £5000 in my account mate, I'm skint

bugger..... me too.Hence the test

 

[ausername]

And this dear Murray is why Ripple, albeit not a cryptocurrency will imo become the leading blockchain for the financial sector, enabling those 'instant' transactions worldwide at extremely low low fees. People keep asking me should i invest in XRP? My answer tends to be... Buy 'shares' in the company as I believe it's going to be a world leader in this sector and a serious force to be reckoned with.

I've bought Paypal shares.

Why? Because the Paypal co-founders and CEO have been constantly praising blockchain technology for over two years now. Its pretty obvious they are R&D'ing in the background considering how glowing their assessments have been on the various possible uses of blockchain technology in their business, particularly for 'smart contracts'.

If Ripple is the leading blockchain for the financial sector, then I don't see anybody better placed to build the leading blockchain for general ecommerce / consumer goods and services than paypal, and I'm willing to bet that this plays a huge part in their roadmap.

I got a dislike on here for posting the 12 month graph for Paypal share price (doubled in 12 months), but they:

1). Have long been aware of the threats of blockchain to their current business model
2). Haven't been asleep on this issue
3). Have publicly praised blockchain technology consistently for 3 years
4). Consistently churn out the brightest minds in tech (you'll know about the record of paypal alumni, because you are an investor).
5). Have the existing userbase and capital to kill off (or buy out) any viable competitor if they aren't the first mover.

So I'm viewing this from the perspective of how blockchain technology will be adopted and then dominated by existing established behemoths, rather than the alternative which is betting on blockchain technology managing to somehow take these companies out of the loop altogether... I think the former is more realistic than the latter.

 

[Admin]

@ausername it was a disagree not a dislike and it was in relation to the quote below (nothing to do with your paypal chart), but on Paypal, I think they are a dismall company. The website has always sucked, their policies and customer service suck. But it might be a good investment, best of luck.

I'm not sure anybody can pay their electricity bill in bitcoin yet?

 

[ausername]

@ausername it was a disagree not a dislike and it was in relation to the quote below (nothing to do with your paypal chart), but on Paypal, I think they are a dismall company. The website has always sucked, their policies and customer service suck. But it might be a good investment, best of luck.

Its funny how people perceive things differently, I've been trading on ebay for many years and in my experiences I got fantastic customer service from paypal but terrible customer service from ebay (even before the split)

We're a bit chalk and cheese at the minute aren't we admin, I'm sure we'll be on the same page on another topic sometime

 

[martin-s]

And if so, it’s pretty weird to have one that’s only usable by certain people in certain situations, don’t you think?

Not really, no?

 

[martin-s]

As far as I'm concerned, crypto currencies are in their early infancy right now. I'm tracking the two biggest with a small portion of my pension as a high risk, high reward strategy, because I think they have mileage and I don't want to miss out.

 

[Edwin]

As far as I'm concerned, crypto currencies are in their early infancy right now. I'm tracking the two biggest with a small portion of my pension as a high risk, high reward strategy, because I think they have mileage and I don't want to miss out.

Is there a way to invest in crypto such that it benefits from the special tax treatment pensions get?