Good assessment of why SEO is basically DEAD

[Sussexite]

SEO isn't dead. It's just evolving.

SEO is about knowing

• what works well,
• work doesn't work
• and what is a really stupid thing to do, too

...and then doing them in the right mix.

These things change all the time. eg Link farms used to be effective SEO years back, now they are a site killer if that's the only place your links come from.

Google are fighting a constant battle aginst black hatters and signs of poor quality. Sometimes they go too far (as with Panda) and then they drag it back a bit (as with Penguin).

I'm sure "negative SEO" will be one of these.

So SEO is more important than ever.

 

[WriteProvider]

I think the word on the grapevine is that Google are doing away with their unnatural back links warnings. This means the idea of having bad links to your site or even creating them for your competition will no longer be an issue.

You should still be careful who you link to as allowing spammy links from your site will still impact your PR.

 

[AuthorityDomain]

I agree with seemly that google need to not give -points for spammy links. They should just ignore them or devalue them. I recently found hundreds of spammy forum links to one of my sites linked to when it dropped. A massive loss in income for me. Just because my competitor (russian I suspect) paid someone to blast links to my site. This affected my link profile, distribution of anchor text and also target link distribution. It's just so easy to knock down a site even if it has authority.

It's certainly a game changer!!

 

[Obosh]

I agree with seemly that google need to not give -points for spammy links. They should just ignore them or devalue them. I recently found hundreds of spammy forum links to one of my sites linked to when it dropped. A massive loss in income for me. Just because my competitor (russian I suspect) paid someone to blast links to my site. This affected my link profile, distribution of anchor text and also target link distribution. It's just so easy to knock down a site even if it has authority.

It's certainly a game changer!!

i never thought of this problem....!!!!!!!!!!!
man this is really very scary....never thought of this....and in fact it seems too easy....anybody can go to fiverr and spend 100 dollar to hunt down his/her competitor.....with 100 dollar you can easily blast 10000 spammy links to any site....10000 spammy links within a week will easily knock down authority.....

this is a serious issue....

 

[dougs]

seo is dead

As some know on here we have been very very active in the seo world and still do it...but the issue is much greater than this.

Google simply do not like seo and really interestingly in many sectors now the best sites who have high ppc spends offer great sites and great landing pages.

So as a user I actually click on many of the ppc ads because the sites I land on are really useful and I know they have a good business behind them.

Hence now our our business is much much larger in our none seo channels.


Doug

 

[devilsrefugee]

I read somewhere recently that google will be focusing on author authority more so than other types of authority (domain/site etc). How true it is, I dont know.

 

[JMOT]

well this turned into a lively debate

SEO is definitely dead. You just cannot run a business from it anymore. It cannot be relied upon.

If I were selling SEO as a service I'd also be looking for a new business.

Its nice if you can get traffic from it and it adds to your overall mix of traffic but you cant bank your mortgage payments on it.

Everyone is now forced to build something real and useful.

Luckily some of us are good at that, some are not.

 

[Sussexite]

well this turned into a lively debate

SEO is definitely dead.

Although, as the OP, it's your thread.....

....I don't think that's a fair summary of the debate, points made and consensus on this interesting subject.

 

[JMOT]

Although, as the OP, it's your thread.....

....I don't think that's a fair summary of the debate, points made and consensus on this interesting subject.

So what? Its not a summary its my opinion.

Can you run a business now purely from SEO?
Can you rely on the revenues generated?
Can you spend money to the penny on SEO and know your return?
Can you still get as much traffic from SEO being in top3 results?
Does Google want you making money from it without earning it any money?

The answer to all of those is NO.

Unless you are a full time SEO spammer and specifically your business is gaming Google and dealing with the peaks and troughs of getting caught/starting again/cycling your websites coming up to top.

 

[Sussexite]

JMOT - I thought it sounded like you were wrapping up the thread with a conclusion. Happy to accept that you weren't.

I take all the points in your last post where the answer to the ? posed is No.

But to this question:

If you have a useful developed website, can it still benefit from good SEO?

The answer is Yes.

ergo SEO is not Dead. It's just evolving again.

 

[getmein]

Can you run a business now purely from SEO? I think you still can, as long as you can accept the inherent uncertainty of the business model. Paid search is predictable, but it's often not profitable.


Can you rely on the revenues generated? Nope, but then that's true of lots of businesses offline too, individual businesses go bust and whole industries are often transformed (Been to blockbusters recently .....)


Can you spend money to the penny on SEO and know your return? Nope, but I'm not sure that you could before. But thats the joy of being an entrepreneur.


Can you still get as much traffic from SEO being in top3 results? Absolutely agree with you here - the organic results for any commercial query are swamped by paid search and in the case of local search queries other google products like maps. I'd love to see a more recent study akin to the AOL leaked data that gives CTR for organic search now. We complain, because it marginalises us - but for the average user if they are getting relevant results they are happy.


Does Google want you making money from it without earning it any money? Nope, but that imperative to keep growing revenue has changed since they became a public company. For certain products like adsense they have such a dominant market position that they could change the rev share and likely lose very few publishers.

 

[JMOT]

ergo SEO is not Dead. It's just evolving again.

No and yes IMHO.

"Evolution: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form"

We are talking not so much about evolution with SEO but more about going from alive and kicking to life support. Whats happened is a huge step backwards for anyone who's model relies on it.

There are only a few types of people who can call whats happened lately as Evolution in SEO:

- Business not reliant on SEO that got hit still. Ouch.. but they are evolving FASTEST and away from SEO as they already have diverse revenues
- Google. They want you dead if your business is SEO. They earn nothing from you.


If you take the biological definition of Evolution its this:

"Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species."

Its not SEO thats evolving its business. Its a pay-to-play world now with Google. The new species will be the super affiliate that adapts to survive and the big brands. Everyone else will die.

If you actually sit there today seeing the fallout from the last 4 months and think there is a future in small affiliate niche sites reliant on free traffic from Google you are simply the rabbit in the proverbial headlights.

Anyone who got wiped out earlier this year will realise SEO is dead and are scrambling for their place in the new world before its too late. Thats evolution but at a fast pace still. More a gun to head situation Thats where I am btw

You simply cant build a business around it anymore.... unless you want to be a full time spammer or small fry.

Absolutely it can still make you money and you should generate income from it in theory if you have built something good.

From my viewpoint tho it is something that you should not even bother with as an offsite expenditure. Google has declared war on SEO like it never did before.

Sure, optimise onsite SEO, build a onsite hierarchy that makes sense. Add good quality content.

If you try second guess Google now to try game whats left of the seo traffic that is out there then you are pissing in the wind.

Its not a fair world... There are sites who have taken the piss with their SEO still raking in the dosh like its christmas every day. Good for them. I hope they are saving every penny or spending it on growing a non SEO reliant business .

Let your users, commentators and fans like, tweet, link to you how they want. Thats how I think about SEO now. Its right for me.

At the end of the day it boils down to what do you want to be?

A bedroom affiliate scraping by on a couple of extra K a month or do you want to own a real business?

Anyways.... thats far too much noise out of me today. I'm logging off here & back to building a real diverse business.... no more checking the serps like a mad man for me sweating am I still no1 or not

 

[domainseller200]

Monestise all your websites with adsense - problem solved for everyone and Google is happy

 

[scottmccloud]

I think the problem is how people perceive their affiliate 'business'. If someone has got a website that is clearing say 1000 customers a month through Google SEO alone, they may well think they have 1000 customers per month. In effect though, they have one. Google. Because that is where they are all coming from. If the big G decides to f**ck you off, then you're in trouble. Would you build a 'proper' business on the strength of one big contract, that could be taken away at any time? Hell no.

 

[pugyrob]

Seo is far from dead but I would certainly be reinvesting short term profits into a larger business plan not dependent on Seo. This may sound contradictory but you can still make a great living developing aggressively when you understand the current algorithm. Google got smarter recently where it was flawed for years.

However to have a business that sells for huge money or that you wake up comfortable with, it is wise to branch out to other revenue streams.

The exception to that are super premium sites that google needs to keep top and also sites that are so niche they are below the radar. If you fall in the middle of those, it will be a bumpy ride where you should be probably having backup sites in each niche and other interests.

 

[Marcoose]

Stopped reading after a few words..

Stop bitching and start creating quality websites.

Seo is not dead, it just became a bit harder...You can no longer buy an exact match domain, buy a few forum profile links, scrape some content and make money from it.

You actually have to work for it these days.

IMO ranking an EMD has actually become a hell of a lot easier.

 

[dougs]

for the minute

EMD's will be on the list of Google death....be warned

Doug

 

[Marcoose]

EMD's will be on the list of Google death....be warned

Doug

Im not so sure. People have been saying that for years. EMD is surely the biggest relevancy signal there could possibly be and will surely have to be factored highly into the algo.

 

[devilsrefugee]

I also disagree EMD will be targeted. Google understands people pay for domains, hence why it gives domains considerable weight. The domain is the one thing that (once bought) cant be adjusted (or optimized) for seo.

IMO ranking an EMD has actually become a hell of a lot easier.

QFT.

 

[roydovaston]

Im not so sure. People have been saying that for years. EMD is surely the biggest relevancy signal there could possibly be and will surely have to be factored highly into the algo.

Whilst EMD's are a great signal that the web site relates closely to the domain name there's a possibility that Google will want to level out the playing field. This is a very hard one to call, only Google really know!