Caught a domain - WHOIS anomaly

[Skinner]

I got a reply from nominet which frankly was bollocks.

The logs do indeed show the name does a dance, oldreg>>heg>>newreg which satifies that issue, this is being done by EPP within split seconds, so its never really in HEGs name in my opinion.

This begs the question, why the no direct transfers rule if it can be done ms apart ?

Nominet say explicit consent must essentially be a conscious decision not a passive one, so simply putting, if you do not renew this name, it can be transferred won't cut it.

However including a link which says "If you no longer require this name, click here to accept the conditions.. conditions below." would be acceptable.

 

[Darren]

highs.co.uk also went the same way today.

123-REG > MONSTER

 

[timter51]

I seem to have been the beneficiary of that as well... sorry folks.

 

[Murray]

I seem to have been the beneficiary of that as well... sorry folks.

Don't think anyone begrudges you, I know I don't anyway, take advantage of what you can.

 

[diablo]

Add twentyseven.co.uk to the list of names.

 

[diablo]

I think an external experiment is in order...

That might have worked had it been done surreptitiously and not posted to here first.

Nominet should be policing this, but whether they are or not remains to be seen. I have seen no mention of the penalties a Registrar will face if caught not seeking the required consent - so my guess is there will be no real repercussions for abuse.

 

[Brassneck]

That might have worked had it been done surreptitiously and not posted to here first.

Nominet should be policing this, but whether they are or not remains to be seen. I have seen no mention of the penalties a Registrar will face if caught not seeking the required consent - so my guess is there will be no real repercussions for abuse.

I pointed nominet towards this thread. Have had an acknowledgement but they cannot discuss the matter with me or tell me what they conclude.

 

[flinty]

Pretty sure this one can be added to the list too..

WordPressWebDesign.co.uk

 

[Rob_F]

I pointed nominet towards this thread. Have had an acknowledgement but they cannot discuss the matter with me or tell me what they conclude.

The new transparent Nominet. Hmm.

- Rob

 

[RobM]

I suspect this was the aim all along. Smokescreen it with .uk and several drafts. This will bring another nice revenue stream for the top registrars (surprise surprise related to nominet).

 

[Skinner]

I've been discussing with nominet, for weeks now and they don't see it as a problem.

The issue is that, until someone complains and says woah woah woah I didn't give consent, and they can show it was done passively or not made clear or whatever, then nom are disinterested.

 

[Skinner]

Word from Nominet regarding the time, I'm going for accredited status myself, so been asking lots of questions.

They say anytime on the 92nd Day is acceptable, so 00:00:00.0001 on drop day is acceptable.

The explicit consent MUST offer the option to allow the name to expired and be dropped (not transferred) so its possible to actually refused to let the registrar take it, but the name still not be renewed, this would be interesting to test.

Should anyone sacrifice a name, nominet have said they will reverse any transfer where explicit consent was not obtained.

 

[Skinner]

I asked the question about the complaints process and outcome, the reply (snipped a little)

We would investigate the registrant’s complaint to establish whether or not the registrar had properly complied with the requirements set out in the Registrar Agreement. We have a formal complaints procedure which we follow (http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/complaining-about-registrar). If our investigation found that the registrar had breached the Registrar Agreement in transferring the domain name without the explicit consent of the registrant then yes we would reverse the change.

With any complaint about a registrar we assess what the appropriate sanctions or corrective action requirements should be. A single case may be enough for us to apply sanctions or it may be a series of actions. We assess each situation fully on a case by case basis.

So indeed someone needs to take the bull by the horns as it were.

 

[Edwin]

I think the "one second past midnight on deletion day" aspect isn't particularly objectionable. It's impossible to see how it would work otherwise, since Nominet don't tell the registrars what time a particular name will get deleted (indeed, since it's done randomly by their system it's possible that nobody inside Nominet knows either - not unless they get into the database of drops for the day and query it directly I mean, and it may well be locked down against casual viewing even by Nominet insiders)

We may be looking for all the loopholes (and fair enough) but it was obviously designed to be a system that worked rather than failed, and as such it's ridiculous to expect Nominet to create a situation where Registrars can't actually take over domains in practice even though they can in theory because they're forced to wait and wait and wait until the actual drop happens (by which time it's too late because the domain's no longer registered with them) when the intent was, under certain constrained conditions, to allow Registrars to take those domains that are explicitly not being renewed.

Now what "explicit consent" consists of, on the other hand, is a much more relevant debate because that's also the aspect where registrars may clearly try to GAME the system.

 

[foz]

nominet have said they will reverse any transfer where explicit consent was not obtained.

Going to be a mess when this eventually crops up. In the interim thousands may have change hands and project plans made.

 

[bulkcorn]

Well, there will soon be many cases of complaints from Registrants who have not given explicit consent want his domain back!

Why on earth Nominet feel they had to change the way things worked before? It was clearly in the Registrant's interest to have the opportunity to renew the name until the last minute.

Best bet is to hold names with a reputable registrar, or get a TAG.

 

[RobM]

Why on earth Nominet feel they had to change the way things worked before?

People at nominet couldn't make any side money before. Now they can through their ties with the top registrars.

 

[Edwin]

Well, there will soon be many cases of complaints from Registrants who have not given explicit consent want his domain back!

Why on earth Nominet feel they had to change the way things worked before? It was clearly in the Registrant's interest to have the opportunity to renew the name until the last minute.

What would be their grounds of complaint? At worst they have lost a secret, unknown, random amount of "renewal time" of between 1s and 23h 59min 59s (remember, it's CRAZY to rely on that time since the domain could be deleted literally ANY time on drop day) So what have they really lost in practice?

 

[bulkcorn]

I lost 3 domains at crazydomains last year to re-regs because they did not renew the domains after I paid for them. The last 2 batches of 'Transfer-in and renew' I did at Daily.co.uk, I had to raise tickets to complain that the names had not been renewed despite my having made payment. I am talking 'days' before deletion, and I only found out because I did spot checks.

There is a possibility of renewal delay/error at some registrars, if not all! There is also the matter of registrars holding registrants to ransom for 'admin or redemption fees, as practiced by many registrars. Crazy Domains once asked me to pay $99 or £99 odd (and fill in a form while I was at it) in order to 'redeem' an expired .co.uk :lol:, effectively preventing the renewal of the domain at that point in time IMO.

 

[Darren]

On 123-REG website if you disable auto renewal you get the following message.

Please choose which ones you wish to set to expire by ticking the box beside them. You will not be sent any more reminders about the domains chosen and they will be allowed to expire. If you later change your mind, you can still renew them through the "Domain Renewal" option in the control panel.

Could this be deemed as consent to allow a transfer?