Beware Brexit and .EU domains

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[Sean]

Well, most of this forum for a start. I'm just suggesting you shouldn't apply prejudice based on vocabulary

* in case anyone's wondering, I am not prejudiced against websaway based on vocabulary, it's based on months of arguing with his nonsense

You lack empathy and you have the tone of a bigot.

What has happened to those from your "deprived de-industrialised Northern town" who don't have "critical thinking skills and business nous"? The ones that rely on low skilled, manual jobs, the type of jobs that have been lost to EU nationals thanks to the free movement of people? You can't blame someone for wanting to come to this country to better themselves but how does a low skilled worker from the UK compete with someone that will work for minimum wage (or less) and live 20+ to a house so they can send money back to their family.

History tells us how this ends.

 

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[websaway]

Sure. This, for example, is the language of troglodyte fascism: https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/979331640987176960

I'd be careful of judging people too far based on the language used though. For example, websaway painted me as metropolitan liberal elite in the Brexit thread, whereas I actually went to a shitty comprehensive, dropped out of Uni and built my business from nothing in a deprived de-industrialised Northern town.

Bully for you. What do you mean by painted ? It's not language I use, I am not an idealist. I tend to make the best of the situation and just go along with the majority wishes.

 

[websaway]

I like to use the analogies that leavers use, and 'divorce' was websaway's favourite.

I always said the EU had huge problems, I don't defend corporate lobbying.

I am not judging from an ivory tower, I've done well and I'll continue to do well because I have critical thinking skills and business nous. It's those without education, jobs, houses, flash cars who stand to suffer most and have been so cynically manipulated by people like Arron Banks

You are too deep into this and it can only serve to poison your mind. If remain had won I would not have given the referendum a second thought, even though I think it's in Britains interest to leave the organisation that was heading in a dubious direction. I would have carried on regardless. I suggest you have a cause that is not your fight. The EU will probably be the area that produces the situations you fear most. UK law and history of tolerance will ensure your negative assumptions of the future do not come to fruition. You misinterpreted Swarm I suspect you misinterpret racism equally.

 

[websaway]

I am extremely intolerant of intolerance and prejudice based on nationalism, race, religion etc because history shows us how that ends.


My reply
It's not how that ends, it's how it exists, all over the world people are being persecuted for being different from their persecutors and if there were no differences then someone would invent them. Being an idealist is painful because their is no end realisation. We can only exist in the equilibrium and it's maintained by people like you and me having reasoned opposing views, not wishing harm to anyone whilst protecting the things we cherish.

 

[Murray]

Some examples of nazi 'jews are insects' propaganda

Wasn't Israel established after WW2?

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[websaway]

Admirable sentiment, but doesn't really fit with your attack on Edwin for use of the word 'mob'. Your arguments are rarely consistent.
If you can read Leave.EU's twitter feed, like that post about 'explosive numbers of muslims' and suggest they're not intent on causing trouble then I lose respect pretty quickly.

I'm not an idealist either, doesn't mean I can't hope that we at least avoid backsliding into conflict.
Yes of course prejudice and intolerance exist everywhere - but by exposing the lack of logic and reason involved we can reduce discrimination.
The country made huge strides in doing so over the last 30-40 years, and since the financial crash that has gone sharply into reverse.

The point is there are always those (often very powerful, cynical people) who seek to exploit people's base fears and prejudice to whip up hatred for their own ends, and to me that is what Leave.EU has done

EDIT just 'conflict'

We have established the meaning of MOB and I don't wish to be associated with such a definition just because I am a leaver. If I agree with the Leave.EU tweet, and leave.eu are a legal organisation, then that's my prerogative. The movement that uses minorities to promote their cause to stop free speech are the culprits and you unwittingly follow their methods.

 

[Edwin]

Interestingly, TaylorWessing (big international lawfirm) gave this advice on domains in 2017, shortly before Article 50 was triggered...

"Are domain names affected by Brexit?
Generally, no, other than for .eu domains. If a .eu domain name is being used and relied on, a back-up domain should be acquired as the registrant of a .eu domain must have a registered office, principal place of business or place of establishment within the EU/EEA. UK holders of such domains may not be permitted to retain them post-Brexit."

https://united-kingdom.taylorwessin...-key-brand-protection-q-as.pdf/show_on_screen

(The rest of their publication covers trademarks, design marks and other IP issues.)

That tallies with what I was saying earlier i.e. this was very much an existing, known problem, for those keeping a close eye on such things. The EU's fault is in using too-blunt language in its "Notice to stakeholders" document on the matter. But they didn't suddenly come up with the rule itself behind the issue.

 

[Edwin]

And here's a memo submitted to a Parliamentary Select Committee (the "European Scrutiny Committee") on the issue back on 17 January 2018. It shows the UK government was fully appraised of the possibility of this happening, but extremely relaxed about it, as can be seen from their response (well worth reading the whole thing).

It also attempts to shift blame before the fact onto "stakeholders" (presumably, UK based .eu domain owners) for not having kicked up enough of a stink about the issue.

In the Government’s Explanatory Memorandum the then Minister of State for Digital (Matt Hancock) acknowledges the restrictions on registrations, but states that “thus far, UK stakeholders have not been vocal in raising any issues or the possibility of UK based users of .eu losing its use on Brexit.”

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmeuleg/301-x/30106.htm

It does not appear the Government responded to the Select Committee's request to prepare follow-up material before the 28 February 2018 (or if they did, that material isn't in the public record).

 

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[websaway]

Edwin said 'the Leave.EU' mob, it was your choice to identify with them. You stated you felt that language was derogatory and I reacted by pointing out your previous use of derogatory language against immigrants.

You are free to express racist sentiments about 'swarms' of immigrants and also to say that you don't think it's derogatory. I am free to call it out and explain why I think it is.

You have free speech up until the point it becomes "hateful, threatening, or abusive, and targets a person on account of disability, ethnic or national origin, nationality (including citizenship), race, religion, sexual orientation, or skin colour."

We banned speech 'intended to stir up racial hatred' in 1986.

You have a right to your opinion, you have a right to express it, within certain constraints designed to prevent the breakdown of civil society.
You don't have any right to have your opinion respected. Opinions are NOT equally valid. The opinion of the woman who tells ambulance drivers they can't park outside her house, for example.

I can agree with you that at times the word 'racist' has been used as a way to attack or discount valid opinions about immigration. I can't agree with you that it's ok to use dehumanizing language about immigrants.

Leave.EU, bankrolled by tax-avoiding chums of Putin and Trump, rely on stoking racial prejudice and fear to create division in society. In my view they are beneath contempt.

Happy Easter/Passover/Bank Holiday Weekend.

Not sure if this will help.
I believe that anyone who has British citizenship should have the same rights that I have, no more, no less. Therefore I believe we should exercise strictly controlled immigration. You can not have uncontrolled immigration and enjoy the benefits of a welfare state.

When economic migrants swarm across borders seeking better lives, that's exactly what they do, they swarm across borders. They are not animals, if they were it would not be a problem.

Oxford English Dictionary quote
1.2a swarm/swarms of A large number of people or things.
‘a swarm of journalists’

 

[Coolbreeze]

You lack empathy and you have the tone of a bigot.

What has happened to those from your "deprived de-industrialised Northern town" who don't have "critical thinking skills and business nous"? The ones that rely on low skilled, manual jobs, the type of jobs that have been lost to EU nationals thanks to the free movement of people? You can't blame someone for wanting to come to this country to better themselves but how does a low skilled worker from the UK compete with someone that will work for minimum wage (or less) and live 20+ to a house so they can send money back to their family.

History tells us how this ends.

Hi Sean, I agree with most of your points, Proud Brexit voter here BUT I don’t think Low skilled British Jobs are being lost because of EU nationals, there are some downsides but in numbers terms not hugely significant. EU nationals account for about 6% of the population with rougly about 2% low skilled and Native born brits are close to 90 percent.. so 2% of the popution causing all these Job losses? Employment is at a record low and our parliament sets the minimum wage, If low wages was the sole issue the goverment could simply double the minimum wage, Natives are just not interested in some of these Jobs plus we have lost many Great industries due to technology this cannot be the fault of the EU nationals. Also looking at the treaty it would seem some restrictions could have been placed on EU nationals on free movement anyway i.e You had to have a Job offer in a member state to stay..

My friend’s family runs a huge Sandwich factory in London paying £9.50 upwards and they get several applications through the year hundreds and almost ‘zero’ natives apply..I think people in this country just want a better opportunity we don’t really want to grow up to be fruit pickers or sandwich makers we want decent paying jobs with better wages I think we have to be abit balanced in our views.

In any event, this is Just my opinion

Enjoy your Easter.

 

[JMI]

It's ok for you guys, I only got an E in GCSE maths.

 

[Sean]

I agree that low skilled jobs aren't lost because of EU nationals but the debate is far more complex than that and I feel an essay coming on so rather than bore/alienate everyone, I'll offer my thoughts ..

1. As a nation we've lost our work ethic and acquired a collective sense of entitlement.
2. Mortgage and rent payments make up too great a proportion of our disposable income which together with a low wage economy limits peoples job options.
3. You can't change the gene pool and suddenly everyone become geniuses, so the idea of educating people out of poverty however laudible is for dreamers.
4. With the above in mind, we need to stop sending our young people to university to rack up debt and instead train them to be plumbers, electricians, nurses and teachers, instead of lawyers, accountants and vloggers
5. The government saying it wants a high skills economy doesn't mean it gets one especially when what we actually have is a low wage economy. The two things are incompatible with each other.
6. People who talk of inequality need to understand that getting rid of it wouldn't mean everyone got a mansion, it would mean everyone got a terraced house.

What's the answer? I've come to the conclusion that we need to press the reset button but that would mean a global catastrophe.

 

[Edwin]

Your assessment is on the nose, but accurate, Sean.

Thing is, none of the factors you mention relate particularly to Brexit. They’re problems with the national psyche and long-term mistakes made over many decades by governments of both parties, craven to big business.

It’s like we’ve built a debt up and up that has finally become due, but instead of paying it we try to create a noisy, shiny distraction (Brexit) in the hope of kicking the can down the road a bit further while people are looking the other way.

BTW the US has many similar issues. Arguably that’s why we have Trump now: a one man distraction machine.

 

[lazarus]

The whole thing stinks and has Juncker written all over it. I am glad we are moving away from this / the mob.