Been Interesting

[websaway]

I can imagine a million different threads crying about it but I can't imagine many where anyone had a legitimate legal complaint. Outside of ones like Zoopla on completely made up words.

Still waiting on an example domain that is going to lead to a legal dispute under the current proposals.

I'm afraid you'll have to work on it for yourself.

 

[Retired_Member38]

You're the one that is saying there are thousands of them. Yet when asked you can't produce a single one...what does that tell you?

 

[websaway]

You're the one that is saying there are thousands of them. Yet when asked you can't produce a single one...what does that tell you?

I already gave you one at the very outset.

John registers axxxxxs.co.uk in 1999
bill registers axxx-xxs.co.uk in 2011 and trademarks axxxxxs

John registers axxxxxs.uk in 2014
Bill challenges his rights based on prior trademark registration.

 

[Retired_Member38]

A made up, blanked out example is worthless. Are they real words? Or "Zoopla" type things. Why not stop messing about and just give an actual example out of your 1000's?

 

[websaway]

A made up, blanked out example is worthless. Are they real words? Or "Zoopla" type things. Why not stop messing about and just give an actual example out of your 1000's?

Your trolling, move on.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Your example makes absolutely no sense from a legal point of view - its simpler to explain this if you use a real example. Which are you aren't going to do, as you don't have one. Fair enough

 

[Stephen]

commercially dangerous?

Trademark infringement is a non issue also. If someone puts an webmail service on hotmail.uk then they are obviously going to lose the domain - just like they'd lose it on a .info or .net right now. And if someone puts a payday loan site on dreams.uk or custard.uk thats too bad - generic domain, no basis for a legal fight.

Agree with points made.

But surely the problem is with .uk with a registration date after a .co.uk that website operate in the same area as the .co.uk, whether parked or more substantial site.

It would be easy for the .co.uk to prove abusive registration, even without a trademark.

So owning a .uk without the equivalent .co.uk could be commercially dangerous, with the potential threat of losing it via DRS abusive registration?

 

[Retired_Member38]

But the situation is no different to right now - if steaks.co.uk has been selling steaks for the last 10 years and I buy steaks.org.uk tomorrow there is absolutely nothing stopping me selling steaks online from it. Its the same domain but its generic. They can't have a trademark on that word in that niche.

If Steaks.co.uk was a home building company for the last 10 years and then I go and buy steaks.org.uk and try and put a rightmove affiliate site or something on it then I'm quite rightly going to lose the domain.

Thats why the examples above that were blanked out were completely worthless - its all going to be down to what context things are used in.

 

[Stephen]

trying to guess?

But the situation is no different to right now - if steaks.co.uk has been selling steaks for the last 10 years and I buy steaks.org.uk tomorrow there is absolutely nothing stopping me selling steaks online from it. Its the same domain but its generic. They can't have a trademark on that word in that niche.

If Steaks.co.uk was a home building company for the last 10 years and then I go and buy steaks.org.uk and try and put a rightmove affiliate site or something on it then I'm quite rightly going to lose the domain.

Thats why the examples above that were blanked out were completely worthless - its all going to be down to what context things are used in.

The situation is no different but if somebody trades from a .co.uk and somebody sets up on an .org.uk then most business would not even notice.

I have not followed DRS that closely but I think in your example it would be possible if the content of the website for the .org.uk was similar that the .co.uk if it predated the .org.uk would win a DRS, even on a generic term.

Most will not be fully generic terms were conflict arises with .uk.

With .uk the owner of a .co.uk will notice and be more concerned with a .uk coming along with a similar online business, as .co.uk predate the .uk. I believe it is possible and quite likely they would take DRS action to obtain the equivalent .uk domain.

It is not possible to give a real example as it has not happened yet, just trying to guess what might happen in a post .uk world under the current proposal, where a .co.uk and .uk domain can be owned by 2 different registrants.

 

[Retired_Member38]

The content being too close is a whole other complaint - and it would be just as valid a complaint if someone took all your content from reallyusefuldomains.co.uk and used it on Sparkle.co.uk or any other completely random domain, its nothing to do with the domain itself. Just like if they stole your design...

 

[Stephen]

far more DRS cases

The content being too close is a whole other complaint - and it would be just as valid a complaint if someone took all your content from reallyusefuldomains.co.uk and used it on Sparkle.co.uk or any other completely random domain, its nothing to do with the domain itself. Just like if they stole your design...

I'm not saying it would have to be identical content, only in the same area.

It is only my opinion but I feel that if .uk was launched, far more DRS cases and legal battles would arise from .co.uk owners trying to get the equivalent .uk domain.

Some would win but not all as each case would be different.

But with no changes to current DRS guidelines then .co.uk as an older registered domain would have less to prove to obtain the equivalent .uk than in a court of law.

 

[Retired_Member38]

HolidaysTurkey.co.uk would be expected to have the same type of content as HolidaysTurkey.uk/.org.uk if they were all used for the obvious generic topic - that couldn't be a problem.

Then to use a real example of a generic domain, if someone ended up with custard.uk (or done this today with custard.org.uk) they'd really be getting all they deserved if they started posting seo agency stuff on it.

 

[Stephen]

HolidaysTurkey.co.uk would be expected to have the same type of content as HolidaysTurkey.uk/.org.uk if they were all used for the obvious generic topic - that couldn't be a problem.

Then to use a real example of a generic domain, if someone ended up with custard.uk (or done this today with custard.org.uk) they'd really be getting all they deserved if they started posting seo agency stuff on it.

I don't know about Turkey - we will have to wait and see some DRS cases first with .uk involved.

What about the in between domains, that are neither generic topics nor abstract generics

These names are made up for illustrative purposes only:
PrintRight, MyHome, YourCake, TheTaste, gr8sound,
HampshireSheds, Cards4u etc....

 

[Retired_Member38]

Stephen there is no possible way that topic-specific generic domains could ever be lost in a properly defended legal fight were the other party hadn't done something stupid like ripping off content, design or similar.

If that were the case then the .uk launch would be completely pointless - everyone will just use the DRS process to take the domains they wanted but weren't awarded.

With your in between examples then who knows... I would assume nearly everyone on a domain like that was going to get the .uk anyway.

 

[Stephen]

.uk launch would be completely pointless?

Stephen there is no possible way that topic-specific generic domains could ever be lost in a properly defended legal fight were the other party hadn't done something stupid like ripping off content, design or similar.

If that were the case then the .uk launch would be completely pointless - everyone will just use the DRS process to take the domains they wanted but weren't awarded.

With your in between examples then who knows... I would assume nearly everyone on a domain like that was going to get the .uk anyway.

Welcome to my world.

Some .co.uk owners I believe are certainly going to try that are not entitled to .uk!

If the precedent is created though DRS and/or legal then I agree it would be pointless if you have 2 different owners and the confidence in the UK namespace would be lower than it is now, would you think like you did in another post..... well better to get it over and introduce .uk better that the uncertainty of not knowing?

Nominet will not answer questions on this area but do look for some clues in .uk V1 for their thinking on this area.

As for getting a .uk domain it assumes a lot of things about knowing and understanding my those millions of domain owners, a debate that has already been had on another thread, so not going to go both sides view, mine is owners of millions of domain owners will not find out about .uk whereas some think that is not true but will not put a number on how many will not.

This is all hypothetical but that is part of the frustration of Nominet, not replying to questions and concerns like this mini-debate we have had.

 

[Lovekraft]

Stephen, i have to admit i have been a little confused from what it is you are seeking to achieve exactly myself, not least because there are so many long posts by you on this subject. For example your many, many questions to Nominet i feel were somewhat fruitless and i believe this endless barrage of such highly detailed specific questions only goes against whatever it is you wish to achieve (which again i will admit, i am really unclear on what you are about exactly, you do want .uk, yet you strongly support the no .uk campaign, this divided position does shout out self interests).

It's fair enough that people may change their stance as they digest the mass of information over time and more information comes to light but i think you should just focus on replying to the consultation as it's the only real shot you have to express your opinions to Nominet like anyone else. Constantly emailing them is not going to help your cause and actually gives anyone else who has an opinion against .uk a bad name who may have more precise valid reasons for not wanting it to go ahead. Some of these campaigns have been far more damaging to "the cause" than you probably realise, and i'd hate to add up the amount of time you have spent on all of this that perhaps you could have been spent doing something more rewarding for yourself that would likely far outweigh any negative effects from .uk going ahead in the manner you want it to.

Like others have said, your real motives behind your very active presence on this matter have become unclear and if i am honest your several posts and threads on the matter have somewhat bogged down the core discussions that were originally taking place (although they did admittedly run out of steam as pretty much everything that could be said was said many times over).

I hope you don't take this personally as you seem like a decent guy, just thought i'd give my perspective on how i am seeing things after taking a quiet step away from all of this but still checking in from time to time.

 

[Stephen]

Stephen, i have to admit i have been a little confused from what it is you are seeking to achieve exactly myself, not least because there are so many long posts by you on this subject. For example your many, many questions to Nominet i feel were somewhat fruitless and i believe this endless barrage of such highly detailed specific questions only goes against whatever it is you wish to achieve (which again i will admit, i am really unclear on what you are about exactly, you do want .uk, yet you strongly support the no .uk campaign, this divided position does shout out self interests).

It's fair enough that people may change their stance as they digest the mass of information over time and more information comes to light but i think you should just focus on replying to the consultation as it's the only real shot you have to express your opinions to Nominet like anyone else. Constantly emailing them is not going to help your cause and actually gives anyone else who has an opinion against .uk a bad name who may have more precise valid reasons for not wanting it to go ahead. Some of these campaigns have been far more damaging to "the cause" than you probably realise, and i'd hate to add up the amount of time you have spent on all of this that perhaps you could have been spent doing something more rewarding for yourself that would likely far outweigh any negative effects from .uk going ahead in the manner you want it to.

Like others have said, your real motives behind your very active presence on this matter have become unclear and if i am honest your several posts and threads on the matter have somewhat bogged down the core discussions that were originally taking place (although they did admittedly run out of steam as pretty much everything that could be said was said many times over).

I hope you don't take this personally as you seem like a decent guy, just thought i'd give my perspective on how i am seeing things after taking a quiet step away from all of this but still checking in from time to time.

Thanks for the advise and comments.

I'm putting my .uk feedback together at the moment.

 

[retired_member32]

people are fearful of the unknown quantity, I spend XX,XXX on a good co.uk domain and to have this amount of outlay on a good domain to carry my business forward, I don't want it undermined by an extension that doesn't bring anything extra to the table so why indeed release it.........greed

there are newbies on this forum that would be pro-uk because they haven't worked tirelessly hunting down a co.uk domain from creditors or spent hours trawling through sites researching, they just see a cash cow waiting to happen.

I just hope in bombs :twisted:

 

[Bailey]

Stephen, i have to admit i have been a little confused from what it is you are seeking to achieve exactly myself,

I hope you don't take this personally as you seem like a decent guy, just thought i'd give my perspective on how i am seeing things after taking a quiet step away from all of this but still checking in from time to time.

My stance exactly - LOTS, LOTs, Lots and Lots of words - references, counter references etc. Without an apparent nailing of your colours (UK spelling of Colors)

And of course you may just be a 'Liberal-Democrat' (US fringe Democrat)

Something is not-right - all that effort without any clear in/outpoint. I can't add-up either.

You say you are NOT in favour (It that the same as Edwins 'depending-on) There Is nothing wrong with nailing your colours, and then changing as the 'winds blow'

What you can't be seen to be doing is 'burying your beliefs in thousands of words- Only paid-for /interested parties usually do that

 

[Stephen]

My feedback may have the answers you seek?

My stance exactly - LOTS, LOTs, Lots and Lots of words - references, counter references etc. Without an apparent nailing of your colours (UK spelling of Colors)

And of course you may just be a 'Liberal-Democrat' (US fringe Democrat)

Something is not-right - all that effort without any clear in/outpoint. I can't add-up either.

You say you are NOT in favour (It that the same as Edwins 'depending-on) There Is nothing wrong with nailing your colours, and then changing as the 'winds blow'

What you can't be seen to be doing is 'burying your beliefs in thousands of words- Only paid-for /interested parties usually do that

My feedback to the current .uk consultation my shed some light on your search for the truth.

It can be downloaded at:

http://www.youruk.org.uk/SWildeUKfeedbackV2.pdf

Also for those that want another view, please go to www.Google.co.uk NEWS search section - enter "Nominet" as search term
and hopefully near the top of the results page you will find my last story that I sent a press release on:

Founder of Nominet states that he is against the current Nominet .uk ...

DigitalJournal.com-27 Aug 2013

The feedback to the current proposal to introduce .uk domain names next year will only be published in November, when the Nominet Directors ...

I have already booked my last PR slot, for what will be likely be my last press release on the subject of .uk, then ride into the sunset!

Good luck with whatever objectives you have.