Been Interesting

[GreyWing]

It's not tricky for me. ( I would love .uk if it had been introduced at outset ) It can't be done without huge financial cost to businesses and brands.
For whatever reasons, you have gone in a particular direction that will not bother Nominet, not interest the public, and only do damage to the NO TO .UK argument.
I think you've gone off the rails.

Things is we are not in charge of any official fightback against .uk, anyone is free to do whatever they want and spend the same time, effort and money to bring up alternatives.

 

[websaway]

The domain would work for both .co.uk and .uk as they would be interchangeable, so every current .co.uk owner would be a winner. (93% of registry with no costly and divisive opt in to manage)

Winners would be those that wanted to use a .uk domain name, now or in the future, they would be the real winners.

No cost to my proposal, just a few lines of code at the registry.

No confusion as .co.uk and .uk would be interchangeable and easy to understand and communicate.

Although as you have stated it would take out the uncertainty out of future .uk proposals, not a great one but add for completeness.

If .uk is introduced for no money to Nominet, it would also provide more trust that Nominet are not going to continue to go down the road of extracting more monies from existing registrants.

Nominet would probably even get more revenue than now, as it will be seen as a stable namespace and it would reduce the decline rate at least.

Would the .uk domain actually exist ?
Would there be a registration date ?

 

[GreyWing]

Yes .uk would exist, both would exist but could never be separated. If someone types in websaway.co.uk it would still revolve to websaway.co.uk in the browser. However if someone typed in websaway.uk it would resolve to websaway.co.uk

The only way it would change is if you logged into your Nominet control panel and said you wanted .uk to be your primary. At which point anyone that typed in websaway.co.uk would go to websaway.uk

Nothing would change until you requested it to, no extra cost, no emails failing, no ssl failures, no buy now before someone cybersquatts you.

There are solutions without winners and losers.

 

[websaway]

Yes .uk would exist, both would exist but could never be separated. If someone types in websaway.co.uk it would still revolve to websaway.co.uk in the browser. However if someone typed in websaway.uk it would resolve to websaway.co.uk

The only way it would change is if you logged into your Nominet control panel and said you wanted .uk to be your primary. At which point anyone that typed in websaway.co.uk would go to websaway.uk

Nothing would change until you requested it to, no extra cost, no emails failing, no ssl failures, no buy now before someone cybersquatts you.

There are solutions without winners and losers.

Yes, it's a bit like playing the flute. You simply blow in one end and move your fingers up and down.

 

[Stephen]

no to .uk campaign

For helping the no to .uk campaign, I have just posted a press release that may be of interest.

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/uk-domain-name-consultations/118585-view-other-uk-feedback-7.html

post #63

 

[GreyWing]

Yes, it's a bit like playing the flute. You simply blow in one end and move your fingers up and down.

Yep, that's exactly right

 

[Edwin]

I have always wanted .uk and think it would be useful

Stephen, I think you must be practically unique amongst those taking an active role in the direct.uk debate to want that! You need to realise that the vast majority of voices raised in opposition to Nominet's plan don't want .uk, and have certainly not "always wanted it".

No wonder I've been finding it so hard to reconcile my views with yours. Seeing the above put everything in perspective for the first time.

 

[Stephen]

my position about .uk

Stephen, I think you must be practically unique amongst those taking an active role in the direct.uk debate to want that! You need to realise that the vast majority of voices raised in opposition to Nominet's plan don't want .uk, and have certainly not "always wanted it".

No wonder I've been finding it so hard to reconcile my views with yours. Seeing the above put everything in perspective for the first time.

I hope you don't think I've been hiding my position about .uk, please see post #571 in response to your post (22-06-2013) and I pretty sure I had that position in V1.

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/uk-domain-name-consultations/116770-nominet-announces-programme-evolving-uk-domain-name-space-58.html

My position is harder to sell to Nominet due to lack of extra revenue but I still think it is the right way forward for the UK namespace.


As I now feel all alone at Acorn I have changed my Avatar.....

 

[retired_member32]

look this is going ahead what anyone says, there is too much money involved and its not about what is right or indeed what is wrong, it's about making money, when this first came to light the last time there was almost an uprising and they suspended the introduction, this hit the domaining community and if they keep this boiling nicely in the background and never goes away it will decrease the revenue of people through uncertainty.

what needs to be done is get a corporate company on board, under Nominets current proposals who may lose the .uk, the costs need to claimed against for rebranding, trademark infringement and legal costs, loss of earnings should all be charged to Nominet.

this is all driven by greed and under current legislation domain registries hold too much voting power.

having a split domaining community will make the introduction of the .uk easier for Nominet.

 

[Retired_Member38]

what needs to be done is get a corporate company on board, under Nominets current proposals who may lose the .uk, the costs need to claimed against for rebranding, trademark infringement and legal costs, loss of earnings should all be charged to Nominet.

This is a non starter. Their current .co.uk site will still work so there is no rebranding costs. And even if they choose to move domain then I'm sure there was nothing in the original registrar agreement saying .co.uk will always be the premium extension, so there is nothing to claim against. So your lost earnings, legal costs etc all vanish on this point too.

Trademark infringement is a non issue also. If someone puts an webmail service on hotmail.uk then they are obviously going to lose the domain - just like they'd lose it on a .info or .net right now. And if someone puts a payday loan site on dreams.uk or custard.uk thats too bad - generic domain, no basis for a legal fight.

 

[websaway]

This is a non starter. Their current .co.uk site will still work so there is no rebranding costs. And even if they choose to move domain then I'm sure there was nothing in the original registrar agreement saying .co.uk will always be the premium extension, so there is nothing to claim against. So your lost earnings, legal costs etc all vanish on this point too.

Trademark infringement is a non issue also. If someone puts an webmail service on hotmail.uk then they are obviously going to lose the domain - just like they'd lose it on a .info or .net right now. And if someone puts a payday loan site on dreams.uk or custard.uk thats too bad - generic domain, no basis for a legal fight.

You've chosen text book cases, you need to look further.
Trademarks have been registered in the thousands since co.uk's were registered, but of course there is no case if the domain registration is prior to the trademark. If on the other hand the .uk registration is not generic and after the trademark then it's open to challenge.

John registers axxxxxs.co.uk in 1999
bill registers axxx-xxs.co.uk in 2011 and trademarks axxxxxs

John registers axxxxxs.uk in 2014
Bill challenges his rights based on prior trademark registration.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Trademarks are restricted to classes. I assume nobody is stupid enough to put an Seo agency on custard.uk but its going to be fair game to use it for anything else. It won't be passing off, a trademark issue or anything else.

It's nothing more than scaremongering and people clutching at straws looking for anti .uk angles

 

[websaway]

Trademarks are restricted to classes. I assume nobody is stupid enough to put an Seo agency on custard.uk but its going to be fair game to use it for anything else. It won't be passing off, a trademark issue or anything else.

It's nothing more than scaremongering and people clutching at straws looking for anti .uk angles

Are you joking ?
There are thousands of co.uk domains where user rights would be challenged if they were not early registrations. When the .uk is used that protection will disappear.
Why go from a position where your non generic is cast iron safe to where it could possibly be open to challenge by using a newly registered domain.
Scaremongering, I wish it was.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I think you're confusing someone being upset or losing some money, and someone having a legitimate legal complaint.

 

[Stephen]

trademarks with tld's

Trademarks are restricted to classes. I assume nobody is stupid enough to put an Seo agency on custard.uk but its going to be fair game to use it for anything else. It won't be passing off, a trademark issue or anything else.

It's nothing more than scaremongering and people clutching at straws looking for anti .uk angles

I have found many trademarks on generic words such as "apple" in many classes, both UK and EU. Remember other countries have reciprocal rights in UK for trademarks.

But also sometimes business, especially online trademark with the tld, so they may have trademark "applerecords.co.uk" but that will not stand up to "applerecords.uk" if it is deemed a separate and distinct tld and is given the blessing by Nominet that is totally separate tld.

 

[Retired_Member38]

And Apple.co.uk lived happily for years as a little graphic design studio as it didn't clash with anything the 'real' apple were doing. Sure big companies are going to have more classes as they're involved in more things... but there is absolutely nothing to stop you using a generic domain in a non clashing niche.

Someone can trademark 'potato.co.uk' as a trademark if they want - it certainly won't stop someone else using potato.uk

 

[websaway]

And Apple.co.uk lived happily for years as a little graphic design studio as it didn't clash with anything the 'real' apple were doing. Sure big companies are going to have more classes as they're involved in more things... but there is absolutely nothing to stop you using a generic domain in a non clashing niche.

Someone can trademark 'potato.co.uk' as a trademark if they want - it certainly won't stop someone else using potato.uk

You are simply looking at generics and classes of use.
It's not that simple.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Why don't you give me a real example of one that you anticipate ending up in a court battle then.

 

[websaway]

Why don't you give me a real example of one that you anticipate ending up in a court battle then.

If all co.uk domains registered before today were given todays date as there registration.
Could you then anticipate in any event any situations where there could be a rights dispute ?

 

[Retired_Member38]

I can imagine a million different threads crying about it but I can't imagine many where anyone had a legitimate legal complaint. Outside of ones like Zoopla on completely made up words.

Still waiting on an example domain that is going to lead to a legal dispute under the current proposals.