Are members of this forum currently buying domain names or not?

[Murray]

Care to elaborate?
Which bit in the sentence you quoted made you say that?

Unless you have insider knowledge as to the algorithms being used by any search engine, never mind Google, everything else you know will be circumstantial and subjective.

Just google some keywords and look at the pagerank of the first 30 sites and pages ranking and tell me if it has any direct affect.

Pagerank is easily gamed and has no real bearing on rankings.

Even if it did, visible pagerank is only updated every 3 months and it can often be iffy.

Site age, just because a crap site has existed for 10 years doesn't make it better than a 6 month old good site.

Domain age matters zip zero.

So talking about these being directly important is waffle.

 

[domsaleuk]

Worth noting that it's not a small percentage by accident

I know - worth noting also I have never ever said that I think hyphens are as good as non hyphenated in all round terms as I think there are potential branding issues with hyphens offline - the strong view I hold that I try and express on this forum is that from a digital marketing / SEO perspective (i.e. if the prime goal is to develop a domain into a site via online methods) then I do not think there are many adverse effects in using hyphens and hence I don't think the domain community should shy away from them so much when just looking to develop small sites.

 

[domsaleuk]

Just google some keywords and look at the pagerank of the first 30 sites and pages ranking and tell me if it has any direct affect.

Pagerank is easily gamed and has no real bearing on rankings.

Even if it did, visible pagerank is only updated every 3 months and it can often be iffy.

Site age, just because a crap site has existed for 10 years doesn't make it better than a 6 month old good site.

Domain age matters zip zero.

So talking about these being directly important is waffle.

As far as I am concerned nothing I said was waffle and it was based on many years of extensive experience and from what you are saying I think you are actually getting a bit confused with the point I was actually making - it might help if you re-read what I actually said and note this point in particular - it is these type of things that can really help a site progress if everything else is done right !

 

[Edwin]

I know - worth noting also I have never ever said that I think hyphens are as good as non hyphenated in all round terms as I think there are potential branding issues with hyphens offline - the strong view I hold that I try and express on this forum is that from a digital marketing / SEO perspective (i.e. if the prime goal is to develop a domain into a site via online methods) then I do not think there are many adverse effects in using hyphens and hence I don't think the domain community should shy away from them so much when just looking to develop small sites.

I agree to an extent, but it's also true that it's never been harder to SEO a site than it is today (tomorrow will be harder still, etc.) so it's less and less worthwhile starting with less than the best if you're developing a proper site.

In other words, if you're building on the hyphenated domain because the unhyphenated is not available, it's worth taking a good hard look at the "why". If the unhyphenated version is already a developed site that ranks well, you're unlikely to catch it with the hyphenated version (you'll always look like the also-ran). If the unhyphenated version is undeveloped, then why not just negotiate to buy it before spending the time/money/effort needed to build and SEO the site effectively...

 

[domsaleuk]

I agree to an extent, but it's also true that it's never been harder to SEO a site than it is today (tomorrow will be harder still, etc.) so it's less and less worthwhile starting with less than the best if you're developing a proper site.

In other words, if you're building on the hyphenated domain because the unhyphenated is not available, it's worth taking a good hard look at the "why". If the unhyphenated version is already a developed site that ranks well, you're unlikely to catch it with the hyphenated version (you'll always look like the also-ran). If the unhyphenated version is undeveloped, then why not just negotiate to buy it before spending the time/money/effort needed to build and SEO the site effectively...

I think it depends what the buyer is looking to achieve. Yes if the buyer is looking to build a large site that could become a leader in the field and have the potential of being sold in the future to a bigger player that may want to brand it further - then Yes I think I agree with what you have said above.

On the other hand if the hyphen might only cost a few xxx or low xxxx to buy as opposed to many thousands then this is a big difference to purchasers. If the hyphen enables a buyer to create a small site that is a close second runner scooping up a good percentage of traffic and earning from revenue streams such as ppc, affiliates, leads etc then does it really matter to the buyer if the hyphen is the also-ran? If it earns its money back quickly and can then go onto be sold on Flippa or somewhere for many times monthly revenue - will the owner care that they only ever owned the hyphen? I doubt it, especially if that hyphen removed a barrier to entry (i.e. cost) and enabled them to build a small money making site that could be sold on for a healthy profit in a relatively short space of time.

 

[Edwin]

On the other hand if the hyphen might only cost a few xxx or low xxxx to buy as opposed to many thousands then this is a big difference to purchasers. If the hyphen enables a buyer to create a small site that is a close second runner scooping up a good percentage of traffic and earning from revenue streams such as ppc, affiliates, leads etc then does it really matter to the buyer if the hyphen is the also-ran? If it earns its money back quickly and can then go onto be sold on Flippa or somewhere for many times monthly revenue - will the owner care that they only ever owned the hyphen? I doubt it, especially if that hyphen removed a barrier to entry (i.e. cost) and enabled them to build a small money making site that could be sold on for a healthy profit in a relatively short space of time.

What you're describing sounds unfortunately more like the mid-2000s than 2013. The affiliate/Adsense space has changed dramatically in the last few years. The rise of mobile, microformats, Google authorship, Twitter, Facebook, Google Panda and other Big G updates, etc. etc. - there are dozens of factors that didn't even exist (or were a blip on the radar) 5 years ago that would trip up a strategy like the one you outlined in 2013. Thin and thin(ish) sites are dead.

Hey, I should know - we made a LOT of hay while the affiliate sun shone brightly

 

[websaway]

I think it depends what the buyer is looking to achieve. Yes if the buyer is looking to build a large site that could become a leader in the field and have the potential of being sold in the future to a bigger player that may want to brand it further - then Yes I think I agree with what you have said above.

On the other hand if the hyphen might only cost a few xxx or low xxxx to buy as opposed to many thousands then this is a big difference to purchasers. If the hyphen enables a buyer to create a small site that is a close second runner scooping up a good percentage of traffic and earning from revenue streams such as ppc, affiliates, leads etc then does it really matter to the buyer if the hyphen is the also-ran? If it earns its money back quickly and can then go onto be sold on Flippa or somewhere for many times monthly revenue - will the owner care that they only ever owned the hyphen? I doubt it, especially if that hyphen removed a barrier to entry (i.e. cost) and enabled them to build a small money making site that could be sold on for a healthy profit in a relatively short space of time.

It's OK until the unhyphenated starts getting the hyphenated's email.
Someone started a company and registered a .co domain identical to a co.uk that I own and I get email at the co.uk address and probably always will do.
It's flippant to just build companies on anything but the absolute and can lead to problems long after the search engine ratings have disappeared.

 

[domsaleuk]

What you're describing sounds unfortunately more like the mid-2000s than 2013. The affiliate/Adsense space has changed dramatically in the last few years. The rise of mobile, microformats, Google authorship, Twitter, Facebook, Google Panda and other Big G updates, etc. etc. - there are dozens of factors that didn't even exist (or were a blip on the radar) 5 years ago that would trip up a strategy like the one you outlined in 2013. Thin and thin(ish) sites are dead.

Hey, I should know - we made a LOT of hay while the affiliate sun shone brightly

I hear what you are saying and obviously agree things have changed a lot over the past couple of years but things have always changed with SEO, development and monetisation and it is just a matter of adapting I believe.

Whilst I agree very small sites (a few pages) are a no go - I do not think that you have to build enormous entities to see a return. You just have to build smallish niche sites with strong SEO and good content etc (when I say smallish I mean hundreds of pages as opposed to the many thousands big sites would have). It is all about targeting in my opinion - as ten targeted visitors to page(s) on an ongoing monthly basis are likely to enable a site to get a lot more conversions than a scattergun approach of getting hundreds of visitors to page(s).

Yes sites need to be of a certain size but content is not that expensive - nor is building and there are various content writers on this forum offering cost effective services so you can in my mind develop sites that will get listed relatively cheaply (although there is still a cost to any development and SEO - something I am well aware of otherwise I would be having sites developed left, right and centre).

There are however also cost effective options to create much bigger sites such as white labels, directories etc. As far as the Adsense and affiliate landscape changing - I don't really see this - what I think has happened is that Google has continually changed and as such it is now harder to drive traffic that is set to convert into sales - which takes me back to my point about effective targeting being key.

All this actually adds more strength I think to the pro hyphen argument as if there are clearly costs that need to be factored in to build smallish sites well, so they do reap a return from natural search by driving targeted traffic then all the more reason to have a strong generic domain name for the sector so that you benefit from EMD, Phrase match and Broad but also all the more reason for many to get that name for the cheapest price posible and this is far more likely to be done with a hyphen than without.

 

[kate-brownhill]

Domain age matters zip zero.

No offence, but that bit, especially is nonsense.

 

[Murray]

No offence, but that bit, especially is nonsense.

Elaborate in what context you think domain age matters.

Thanks.

 

[kate-brownhill]

In that the age of the domain is one of the many factors used by Google to determine the trustworthiness of a domain. In my experience, it’s quite a strong signal/factor.

To use your own reasoning, do a search for a very competitive term such as "SEO" and tell me how many of the sites on page 1 are less than 5 years old?

 

[Murray]

tell me how many of the sites on page 1 are less than 5 years old?

Are we talking about sites or domains?..

I am talking about a domain name, a domain name is not a site.

 

[kate-brownhill]

Are we talking about sites or domains?..

I am talking about a domain name, a domain name is not a site.

I am talking about the age of the domain being an important factor when ranking a site on that domain.

 

[Murray]

I am talking about the age of the domain being an important factor when ranking a site on that domain.

Well, that is not true at all.

Could you make a logical argument as to why google would rank sites higher just because the domain was registered earlier?..

 

[Sound]

domain name age is a very important contributing factor to your Google ranking

 

[Murray]

Expired sites with links get caught and go straight back to ranking.

The whois says they're newly registered domains yet they still go right back to ranking where they were with a site put back on.

Why? because the domain has history from the site that was placed on it and more importantly the links.

The site.. and the links...

Nothing to do with the whois and when the domain was actually registered, saying it matter is, I'm sorry, nonsense.

 

[kate-brownhill]

Well, that is not true at all.

Could you make a logical argument as to why google would rank sites higher just because the domain was registered earlier?..

With pleasure. Older domains with clean profiles are harder to come by, cost much more than brand new registered domains and therefore more of a commitment for the spammer. We have, for example, just bought a .com domain for a specific planned site for $4500. The main attraction was that the domain was 16 years old. Ask yourself, would a spammer buy that domain?

I am not going to get into a "its not true"/"it is so" argument. We have our experience, and you have yours. Our experience tells us that domain age is a clear advantage over a brand new domain when everything else is equal. How many domains younger than 5 did you find when you had a look at "SEO" in Google?

All I’m saying is don’t assume that everything that goes against your beliefs is “waffle” without direct experience in the matter.

 

[kate-brownhill]

Expired sites with links get caught and go straight back to ranking.

The whois says they're newly registered domains yet they still go right back to ranking where they were with a site put back on.

Why? because the domain has history from the site that was placed on it and more importantly the links.

The site.. and the links...

Nothing to do with the whois and when the domain was actually registered, saying it matter is, I'm sorry, nonsense.

Expired domains that have been dropped and picked up do not rank well for competitive key phrases. Feel free to prove me wrong with an example. Please note that I said 'competitive' which is not the same as 'high search volume'.

 

[domsaleuk]

We have our experience, and you have yours. Our experience tells us that domain age is a clear advantage over a brand new domain when everything else is equal.

Ditto - my experience tells me exactly the same

 

[Murray]

We have, for example, just bought a .com domain for a specific planned site for $4500. The main attraction was that the domain was 16 years old.

I'm sorry, but if you're paying more just because the domain was registered 16 years ago you're throwing away money.

Please research into it more, think about it logically and save yourself some money.