Why do we struggle?

[bonusmedia]

Of course I'm not saying you can get away with a crappy site. I'm saying it adds a level of trust and authority. There may be 100 sites selling widgets, but there can only be one Widgets.co.uk. Sites on category killer generic EMDS tend to be bigger, more established, more successful businesses - at the very least they either got in early or invested in the name.

If you don't agree, fair enough - sell me your high end gnerics and EMDS!

With an increasing proliferation of choice, the high end generic stands out. It is memorable, shorter, to the point etc etc

And the argument about EMDS for SEO can rage on but in my experience they are still a positive ranking factor and it is fairly logical that someone searching for widgets is more likely to click widgets.co.uk.

 

[mojoco]

I can imagine it does to a supplier in the know with regards to domain names and so on. But I don't believe for one second that your request would be ignored if you say I'm from The London Light Company and I want to place an order for 1,000 units.

I'm not saying there is zero benefit to having a generic domain such as lights.co.uk, of course there is and we could all argue the positives and negatives. It's just that in terms of what I see currently and how I see things progressing in the future, the negatives outweigh the positives significantly which makes me question the investment.

Honestly if I see EMD's in the SERPs now I question whether it's some joker with an FSB/phpBay store rather than a legit/established business. I'd take each site as it comes before deciding who to buy from, I'd rule out the domain completely.

Of course you would not be ignored if you say you want to place an order for a 1,000 units. But that is not the point I was making.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Of course I'm not saying you can get away with a crappy site. I'm saying it adds a level of trust and authority. There may be 100 sites selling widgets, but there can only be one Widgets.co.uk. Sites on category killer generic EMDS tend to be bigger, more established, more successful businesses - at the very least they either got in early or invested in the name.

To who though? To us in the know, sure. You look at it and think wow, they must have paid £10k for that domain, they must be serious. But to the guy on the street i.e. the actual person opening their wallet, I really don't think so.

And the argument about EMDS for SEO can rage on but in my experience they are still a positive ranking factor and it is fairly logical that someone searching for widgets is more likely to click widgets.co.uk.

I agree, they have some benefit but that benefit can quickly work against you. It's well documented you can't be as agressive with your linking strategy on an EMD and the metrics I mentioned above which are fast becoming more and more important as Google adjusts its algorithms towards brands are lost. There is no way to differentiate between people searching Google for "Lights" and your brand as "Lights" - brand searches are a MAJOR position influence as are brand mentions around the web/social. Your brand cannot be mentioned unless it's in the full form with the domain suffix bolted on which won't happen in general discussion, only as a referral.

As I say, there are benefits to both but I would take the brand benefits over the domain weight benefits as of today and it's only going to lean more towards my way of thinking as more domain extensions get used and Google continues to push "brands" to the forefront of the results.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Of course you would not be ignored if you say you want to place an order for a 1,000 units. But that is not the point I was making.

I think it's a weak positive to justify the investment. My point being if you want to do business with a supplier, there are other ways to be taken seriously than relying on your domain name to kick off your relationship. If suppliers ignore your e-mail without checking your site and base their response on what your domain is, they're stupid and shouldn't be in business in the first place.

 

[ian]

Some domainers obsession with generic domains is at odds with the rest of the world who are obsessed with brands. For me, the best domain is one that is apt but not obvious and stands on its own without the extension. Dreams.co.uk is a great example, a perfect match of generic domain that works perfectly for a bed company.

Dreams being a prime example of a domain that isn't too specific to a product, but instead a brand or word perfectly suited to certain industries. Lights is too specific, I suspect a word like glow or illuminate would work better, and be more impressive.

 

[martin-s]

I can imagine it does to a supplier in the know with regards to domain names and so on.

I don't have to imagine. I know it for a fact. Using a premium generic immediately opens up doors to the biggest customers in any industry where they would otherwise be closed or harder to break down.

 

[Lucky Luke]

There are some good discussions here. I hope you lot with these good brains are making reasonable moolah in the world of domaining & the internet.

 

[martin-s]

Plus how did this thread switch from targeting customers to targeting suppliers?

 

[mojoco]

I don't have to imagine. I know it for a fact. Using a premium generic immediately opens up doors to the biggest customers in any industry where they would otherwise be closed or harder to break down.

Nice to hear a similar POV by somebody talking from experience and not what they may think.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Plus how did this thread switch from targeting customers to targeting suppliers?

Because the people who are pro generic domain have no argument to how it's better for the every day customer, only how it may or may not help you do a deal with a supplier.

I don't agree with it but no, I'm not talking from experience. More common sense. The people buying these domains are probably established and have their own supply chain already in place. I see little benefit in investing in a generic purely for this reason. I'd rather tell them my domain, how long I've been in business and my order quantities than say hey look, I paid £10k for this domain, I must be a good customer.

Look through the rankings, find me sites that rank well for their product and use their product as the domain. Look through the top 500 websites in the UK and find me the same. Look at the biggest brands in the world, how many can you name with generic domains 1, 2? This is what the business owner should be striving for.

But alas, I appreciate citing these points on a domain name investor forum is going to go down like a lead balloon. You're getting excited over a handful of generic domain sales a year to real world businesses yet still preach they're the best thing since sliced bread. They're not, get with the times, the world has moved on.

But I'm somewhat hypocritical. Whilst I don't agree that the benefits outweigh a clear brand I will continue to buy and sell them whilst the market remains, even if I don't agree with the usage personally.

 

[accelerator]

Ironic really that given all the online tools available now many domainers still struggle to turn their *good* domains into a viable businesses (I realize some don't want too) or at least some form of decent income stream (other than parking). I guess its just that domainers are on a different end of business spectrum for one reason or another..

Well, by definition a domainer is someone that trades domains to make a profit, so developing a business is not in the job description.

That said, the reasons they may struggle are many. As soon as you start trying to run an actual business on a domain, the level of effort required immediately jumps.

 

[humble pie]

I think your just going to deep now and missing the point - your looking for perfection which you probably won't find

I'm merely stating that I think lights.co.uk adds a certain je sais quois to the website. Of course its subjective as to whether lights.co.uk, lighting.co.uk, dreamlights.co.uk or glow.co.uk is better. Lights.co.uk is good - its short, sweet, easy to spell, on a trusted extension and meaningful.

What I know in my mind is that lights.co.uk runnign in the UK with a great site I prefer much to lights.london, lights.wales, lights.website, comapnylights.co.uk etc.

Of course your perfectly right a user would probably buy from all of those (via serps!?), but if they were all 20k names and I had to choose one to build my business around I'd take the .co.uk

But does a generic domain REALLY convey trust to the guy looking to buy lights online who knows nothing about domain names etc? It's like you're saying if lights.co.uk had a crappy site on it people would trust it because of the name. They wouldn't. They trust it because of how authentic the site and buying process looked - something you could achieve regardless of your domain name with the exception of something long winded.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Well, by definition a domainer is someone that trades domains to make a profit, so developing a business is not in the job description.

That said, the reasons they may struggle are many. As soon as you start trying to run an actual business on a domain, the level of effort required immediately jumps.

Developing a domain can mean many different things also. What I see as developing a domain you could only really do with 2 or 3 domains from your portfolio. But people will consider "developing" to be a one page site with AdSense ads or an Amazon Store etc. To run an actual business takes time, effort and money - probably too much of each to justify it.

The people who are investing in generic domains are likely to be in the know regarding online marketing, to some extent and there have been many people I know who have refused to buy domains, even if it was a good fit due to the problems the previous owner has caused by throwing up crappy sites with crappy SEO methods.

 

[Retired_Member42]

I think your just going to deep now and missing the point - your looking for perfection which you probably won't find

I'm merely stating that I think lights.co.uk adds a certain je sais quois to the website. Of course its subjective as to whether lights.co.uk, lighting.co.uk, dreamlights.co.uk or glow.co.uk is better. Lights.co.uk is good - its short, sweet, easy to spell, on a trusted extension and meaningful.

What I know in my mind is that lights.co.uk runnign in the UK with a great site I prefer much to lights.london, lights.wales, lights.website, comapnylights.co.uk etc.

Of course your perfectly right a user would probably buy from all of those (via serps!?), but if they were all 20k names and I had to choose one to build my business around I'd take the .co.uk

I'm not disagreeing with you. But all things considered if I'm looking to start out a business in a particular sector, I'd consider everything I've mentioned and choose a brand/domain name that gets me as close to perfection as possible. Something that addresses every metric or the majority of them. Not just look at the domain as the be all and end all which is what many domain investors seem to pushing.

As I say, everyone has a preference. You'd prefer lights.co.uk to companylights.co.uk as domain name is your business, you're in the know and of course lights.co.uk is a better "domain" than companylights.co.uk - but is it a better domain to the customer? Is it a better domain when it comes to brand recognition/online promotion?

The dreams example was a good one. Whilst it loses a lot of the SEO metrics I've discussed it is a much better word of mouth option? Nobody wants to bolt .co.uk onto their brand name when referring to it.

Where did you get your bed from, Dreams? Or when did you get those lights? I got them from Lights. It just doesn't work.

 

[bonusmedia]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But all things considered if I'm looking to start out a business in a particular sector, I'd consider everything I've mentioned and choose a brand/domain name that gets me as close to perfection as possible. Something that addresses every metric or the majority of them. Not just look at the domain as the be all and end all which is what many domain investors seem to pushing.

As I say, everyone has a preference. You'd prefer lights.co.uk to companylights.co.uk as domain name is your business, you're in the know and of course lights.co.uk is a better "domain" than companylights.co.uk - but is it a better domain to the customer? Is it a better domain when it comes to brand recognition/online promotion?

The dreams example was a good one. Whilst it loses a lot of the SEO metrics I've discussed it is a much better word of mouth option? Nobody wants to bolt .co.uk onto their brand name when referring to it.

Where did you get your bed from, Dreams? Or when did you get those lights? I got them from Lights. It just doesn't work.

I got them from Lights.co.uk. It really does.

 

[websaway]

You would say I got them from "Lights co.uk" the brand is also in the extension.

"I got them from dreams" really, I didn't think dreaming could be so effective.

It's getting more like a labour v conservative discussion, preference depends on which side your bread is buttered.

 

[humble pie]

Why are you obsessing if the customer cares if the domain is better or not

Fred walks into bank for loan sees reception girl.

(picks up phone) "Mr Bank Manager Fred Bloggs is here from lightscompany.guru for his business loan"

pause.. tumbleweeds, and then dial tone

Jeff walks into bank for loan sees reception girl.

(picks up phone) "Mr Bank Manager Jeff Bloggs is here from lights.co.uk for his business loan"

Send him in.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But all things considered if I'm looking to start out a business in a particular sector, I'd consider everything I've mentioned and choose a brand/domain name that gets me as close to perfection as possible. Something that addresses every metric or the majority of them. Not just look at the domain as the be all and end all which is what many domain investors seem to pushing.

As I say, everyone has a preference. You'd prefer lights.co.uk to companylights.co.uk as domain name is your business, you're in the know and of course lights.co.uk is a better "domain" than companylights.co.uk - but is it a better domain to the customer? Is it a better domain when it comes to brand recognition/online promotion?

The dreams example was a good one. Whilst it loses a lot of the SEO metrics I've discussed it is a much better word of mouth option? Nobody wants to bolt .co.uk onto their brand name when referring to it.

Where did you get your bed from, Dreams? Or when did you get those lights? I got them from Lights. It just doesn't work.

 

[mojoco]

I gave you an example of how it didn't work which would suggest you're blinkered and only see or hear what you want to?

No I'm not blinkered, I see and hear reality. Because it didn't work for you does not mean it doesn't work for others.

 

[Retired_Member42]

You would say I got them from "Lights co.uk" the brand is also in the extension.

"I got them from dreams" really, I didn't think dreaming could be so effective.

It's getting more like a labour v conservative discussion, preference depends on which side your bread is buttered.

Not necessarily. As i said above I openly trade the very domains I'm saying should be avoid as the market is there for them. Admittedly it's dwindling, but it's still present.

I don't think it makes a good brand having to bolt your domain name extension - in general. What if I build lights.co, lights.uk, lights.com etc? Your brand name is lost for each extension that becomes available and used. What if you have a high street shop, is your brand still Lights.co.uk? How do you present yourself on social? twitter.com/lights_co_uk - How do people search your brand on Google to increase your brand metrics? Do they put in lights.co.uk or do they go to lights.co.uk in the first place? And don't even get me started on people having to search "lights" to be able to find your specific company.

You base all your positives as if anyone who ever wants to buys lights knows about domain names be it their value or their extensions and so on.

Even I could come up with positives for using lights.co.uk even though it appears I'm against it. There are some positives. My whole point is, day one, building a business, the negatives outweight the positives. You'd be better choosing something as close to brand perfection as possible for probably significantly less money.

 

[Retired_Member42]

Why are you obsessing if the customer cares if the domain is better or not

Fred walks into bank for loan sees reception girl.

(picks up phone) "Mr Bank Manager Fred Bloggs is here from lightscompany.guru for his business loan"

pause.. tumbleweeds, and then dial tone

Jeff walks into bank for loan sees reception girl.

(picks up phone) "Mr Bank Manager Jeff Bloggs is here from lights.co.uk for his business loan"

Send him in.

That's nonsense. Nothing more. Your domain name is going to make very little difference to your bank manager. In fact, he'd probably say, why have you spent £5k on that when you could have got one for £5 at GoDaddy, you absolute whopper.

And you're going from one extreme to the other. I'm not suggesting to use somebiglonglightscompany.ninja. I'm saying to choose a short, unique and memorable word for your brand name that satisfies the requirements I mentioned above. If you have to buy that domain for £10k from someone from Acorn, no problem with it. Do it. I've nothing against people paying for premium domain names, but make it the right domain name because you've considered ALL factors instead of yeah, I sell lights, let's buy lights.co.uk. It's stupid.