Who's Holding BTC?

[JMI]

BTC is in a bubble at the moment, when the bubble ends, lots of money will be lost. Gold isn’t in any bubble... It's God's money!

 

[martin-s]

BTC probably isn't in a bubble yet, but that is it's way for sure.

 

[ian]

.

 

[LCHappy]

As I said I am open on Bitcoin, but there are some things I don't understand.

As I understand it, transactions are pretty slow compared to card transactions (I'm not having a dig, it's just the way it is) but at plus 10 seconds it means it isn't something that is going to be conducted at an Asda Checkout.

Now again as I interpret it, the transactions are powered by computers that are mining for new coins.

When all those coins are gone, and all of the miners cease mining because there is nothing to mine for, how do any transactions take place?

LC

 

[JMI]

I'm sure they'll be some reason or way to create more down the line There's actually no business case for btc or any crypto - nothing you can't settle with a credit card or PayPal.. It's really just part of a utopic dream of a decentralised floating currency ultimately designed to bring down central banking. There's quite a lot of talk that cryptos could work if backed by Gold and possibly silver, this is something China are working on right now and is being looked at by other govs around the world. I'm not a crypto hater just a realist. Gov backed cryptos will happen at some point totally as fiat currency is now utterly worthless look at the dollar.. smashed to bits.. I am telling you now that some economic pain is coming like never before in the next months, it was long due a decent recession and was just a pin needed to prick the bubble, but instead we got a sledge hammer with Covid.

 

[dazc]

BTC is in a bubble at the moment, when the bubble ends, lots of money will be lost. Gold isn’t in any bubble... It's God's money!

It doesn't matter if it's a bubble where people end up selling for more than they paid. Same with Gold, yes it has a base value and will never go down to zero but you can still lose money by getting the timing wrong.

I don't invest in crypto but each to his own.

 

[ian]

Let's face it, any asset class is only viable whilst it makes money for investors; it is no different for crypto, gold, silver or funds/shares. The point of Bitcoin is as an alternative to government controlled finance that seemingly can print more money at will. Eventually your average consumer will realise that their money is worth less each year than the interest it makes. That will turn them to either gold, or crypto; not for the ability to spend, but for the ability not to lose money. Bitcoin has a very long way to go yet, for now, it is too unpredictable for your average Joe, and many should stay away if they don't feel confident in holding their own asset (similar to how few hold actual gold). I've always said I see BTC as a store of value, not as a every day means of purchase. The phrase "digital gold" is a cheesy one, but accurate enough.

 

[JMI]

"The phrase "digital gold" is a cheesy one, but accurate enough."

Unfortunately the markets have shown that BTC its not the same class as Gold as a safe haven asset with recent global events investors have flocked to Gold and other precious metals. Experts predict $3400 an ounce for Gold late 2021 and even $15,000 ounce by 2025 so getting in now at $1940 if your long is still ok. Big economic news coming out today in the US, we'll see.

 

[ian]

Gold is a very mature market, let's not forget that!

 

[Admin]

As I said I am open on Bitcoin, but there are some things I don't understand.

As I understand it, transactions are pretty slow compared to card transactions (I'm not having a dig, it's just the way it is) but at plus 10 seconds it means it isn't something that is going to be conducted at an Asda Checkout.

Now again as I interpret it, the transactions are powered by computers that are mining for new coins.

When all those coins are gone, and all of the miners cease mining because there is nothing to mine for, how do any transactions take place?

LC

The transaction speed is fast, I've done some purchases recently. Also, this will change with lightinng network and other improvements. Bitcoins current performance is NOT fixed. It has evolved and improved already and will continue to do so. The bitcoin block rewards the miners get...well, all bitcoins won't be in circulation until around the year 2140 and even after they are in circulation the miners will earn from the transaction fees to be collected from every confirmed transaction. Hope that helps.

 

[Admin]

BTC is in a bubble at the moment, when the bubble ends, lots of money will be lost. Gold isn’t in any bubble... It's God's money!

It was in a bubble in 2017, it isn't now. But you keep your single-digit annual returns from gold!

 

[Admin]

I'm sure they'll be some reason or way to create more down the line There's actually no business case for btc or any crypto - nothing you can't settle with a credit card or PayPal.. It's really just part of a utopic dream of a decentralised floating currency ultimately designed to bring down central banking. There's quite a lot of talk that cryptos could work if backed by Gold and possibly silver, this is something China are working on right now and is being looked at by other govs around the world. I'm not a crypto hater just a realist. Gov backed cryptos will happen at some point totally as fiat currency is now utterly worthless look at the dollar.. smashed to bits.. I am telling you now that some economic pain is coming like never before in the next months, it was long due a decent recession and was just a pin needed to prick the bubble, but instead we got a sledge hammer with Covid.

Absolute tosh no use you can think of 'in your world' you mean. Did you know nearly a third of the world's population is unbanked? Yet many of those unbanked have a mobile phone. I think you can see where I am going.... It's a lifeline and godsend for billions. Paypal and bank cards are not available to billions.

Did you know crypto has been used as an efficient and safe way to deliver aid?

https://foodtank.com/news/2019/01/the-world-food-program-fighting-hunger-with-blockchain/

https://www.coindesk.com/united-nations-sends-aid-to-10000-syrian-refugees-using-ethereum-blockchain

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...with-blockchain-at-international-food-program

 

[lazarus]

There's actually no business case for btc or any crypto - nothing you can't settle with a credit card or PayPal

Not sure where you have been researching....

Companies already using Blockchain technology for on-chain applications.
Visa, Unilever, Walmart, Ford, IBM, DHL, Pfizer, AIG, Shell, Siemens, Lufthansa, British Airways... To name a few

Use cases for onchain applications are massive. Revolutionary in fact for many reasons.
Blockchains like Eth or Lisk etc are not just limited to monetary functionality.

On the monetary side. Look at counties that have hyper inflation. They are turning to blockchain where Fiat currency has failed. For example, Venezuela. They currently have 20,000 and growing POS terminals throughout the country.

 

[JMI]

Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said "As an asset class, you're not producing anything and so you shouldn't expect it to go up. It's kind of a pure 'greater fool theory' type of investment,".

 

[ian]

Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said "As an asset class, you're not producing anything and so you shouldn't expect it to go up. It's kind of a pure 'greater fool theory' type of investment,".

Next you'll quote Warren Buffet

 

[JMI]

Next you'll quote Warren Buffet

You just shot yourself in the foot with that one because his firm Berkshire Hathaway has just invested $560 million in US-listed gold mining company Barrick Gold.. and we know what Buffet thinks of BTC “Cryptocurrencies basically have no value and they don't produce anything,”.

 

[Admin]

You just shot yourself in the foot with that one because his firm Berkshire Hathaway has just invested $560 million in US-listed gold mining company Barrick Gold.. and we know what Buffet thinks of BTC “Cryptocurrencies basically have no value and they don't produce anything,”.

@ian will no doubt confirm but i thought this was actually his point...Warren buffet (90 years old on Sunday) is a relic from the dark ages and has a very clear and limited investment strategy, hes an opponent of btc and not really going to get crypto at 90 yo is he.

 

[dee]

Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said "As an asset class, you're not producing anything and so you shouldn't expect it to go up. It's kind of a pure 'greater fool theory' type of investment,".

Current market cap of bitcoin is about 117.81 billion. It's not going anywhere soon. It may not be useful for much actually other than a store of wealth, but as the original and most long living crypto it has the best pedigree as a potential safe haven / long term investment. And although it probably wont end up being the 'everyday currency' its around for good. It also kicked of blockchain, which is where the real future lies...... smart contract, inventory, financial ...the uses are endless and the decentralised public ledger bit makes it very quick and not reliant on one server for instance. Its the future at the moment I reckon.

 

[LCHappy]

If transactions take a fair few seconds to get processed, has nobody tried a mass denial of service attack by trying to send through random strings that look like coins.

Obviously they will be declined, but wouldn't they take up processing time and power? Wouldn't enough of these bring it down?

 

[twostepsbehind]

Three things Bitcoin has going for it that no fiat currency does:
1. Limited supply - technologically limited
2. Decentralised - no single/central entity controls it or authorises/verifies transactions
3. Underpinned by complex maths, cryptography - nothing short of quantum computing can tamper with it

This creates trust amongst its users for being in limited supply, controlled by a multitude of unrelated entities, mathematically protected

A single malicious entity can't corrupt it

Bitcoin's inherent value is the trust people can have in it - this is enough to let it be a store of wealth, even if it doesn't become a transactional currency