The millionth "what blackberry" thread...

[dotNetFreak]

How do you find the touch keyboard vs a normal BB keyboard?

 

[jimm]

For the majority of users, probably nothing...

However if you happen to use an Exchange server, then irrelevant of what Apple claim, BB's are still the better option.

In what way though? Why is it better? what does it do faster, more user friendly safer than an iPhone?

It's still easier to type on a keyboard than on a screen.

Fair enough. Some people do prefer the physical KB equally some prefer the iPhone screen.

because it is so good for unified messaging. I have one inbox where all my emails, SMS, MMS, and multiple IM network conversations can and do appear. That's what I engage in the most and the way the BlackBerry interface is designed allows me to do this quickly and cleanly.

Now that sounds like a selling point. For me that would be a negative but I can certainly see for some that would be a big benefit

My BlackBerry is connected to a BES that is linked to an Exchange server. Although this costs a lot more than using a BlackBerry in BIS mode (one has to buy or rent an Exchange server, buy or rent BES, pay RIM for a BES licence per handset and pay the mobile provider between £10 and £28 per month for BlackBerry Enterprise) I'm still happy to do it.

Big downside there but it is only needed for Exchange i think?

The BlackBerry is the only device with true, secure push email. All email is encrypted end to end.

Yeah valid point there.

My requirements are for two way push email as well as contacts and calendar sync. The Iphone can do this but it just doesn't work as well as BlackBerry.

In what way does BB do it better?
Does it sync Notes as that is missing on the iPhone.


As I say Im really interested. Im not just stiring.

 

[dotNetFreak]

Notes can be synced and out of office replies are natively supported unlike the iPhone. As invincible says it's also all encrypted and more secure.

Plus the management tools RIM offer by way of BES are significantly more advanced.

You've got to remember, RIM approached this from a business/corporate viewpoint and Apple approached it from a consumer viewpoint therefore whilst the BB doesn't have all the glitz and glammer of the iPhone (yet...), what it does do it does VERY well.

If you want a gadget to read your non-critical POP3 e-mail on get an iPhone. If you want secure, integrated enterprise messaging phone get a BB.

 

[jimm]

out of office replies are natively supported unlike the iPhone.

How do you mean?

Plus the management tools RIM offer by way of BES are significantly more advanced.

Again what can you do?

You've got to remember, RIM approached this from a business/corporate viewpoint and Apple approached it from a consumer viewpoint therefore

Heritage is all fine and good. It doesnt make it better than the competition though.

If you want a gadget to read your non-critical POP3 e-mail on get an iPhone. If you want secure, integrated enterprise messaging phone get a BB.

In your oppinion of course.


Ok time to get off the fence.
I think the iPhone should be the phone of choice for 80% of users including businesses. The exchange features are better than most people will ever need. Sure there are some tiny bits missing but most will never notice or really not miss them if they do notice.

Yes, its not encrypted. But then if you consider email safe your wrong and if this encryption is a requirement the iPhone isnt for you.

Overall the iPhone is a fast, reliable device to check emails on. It works brilliantly with Exchange, POP3 and IMAP protocols. And it comes in a great user friendly package too.
And just to qualify my oppinions. I have I would expect among the most experiance on this forum with mail servers (be that exchange, zimbra, smartermail or the plethora of MTAs used on linux servers).
I have deployed around 500 devices in the last 18 months though only 5 iPhones due to most needing to run an application which would only run on WM6 which is why I have such limited experiance of BB.
Plus I am not an Apple fan boi - just incase you thought I was

My advice is usually try the iPhone out. I would bet 9 out of 10 time someone who had no experiance of PDA devices (BB, WM or iPhone) would prefer the iPhone but there is no guarantee it will be right for you. It just sometimes isnt...

 

[rjs_essex]

...pointed them towards a decent Hosted Microsoft Exchange provider.

Can you let me know who you use... I'm looking for a hosted Exchange server solution so any recommendations would be great.

Rich

 

[dotNetFreak]

How do you mean?

BB's allow you to set out of office replies from the handset, but as far as I know iPhones don't support this without a 3rd party app.

Again what can you do?

BES allows you to control and manage just about every aspect of the BB via centralised granular policies. Something the iPhone does not. Ok, no small business is really going to care about this, they have enough problems keeping their AV up-to-date, let alone worry about what Joe is doing on his phone, but for larger installations this is fairly important.

Heritage is all fine and good. It doesnt make it better than the competition though.

No, true, but it does mean that Apple have a *lot* of catching up to do if they want to break into the enterprise market.

In your oppinion of course.

Yes

Ok time to get off the fence.
I think the iPhone should be the phone of choice for 80% of users including businesses. The exchange features are better than most people will ever need. Sure there are some tiny bits missing but most will never notice or really not miss them if they do notice.

There are a lot of Smartphones to choose from, I'm not convinced that the iPhone should be the phone of choice for 80% of users, especially when officially there is only one carrier to choose from and the battery life is shockingly bad.

Yes, its not encrypted. But then if you consider email safe your wrong and if this encryption is a requirement the iPhone isnt for you.

No, external e-mail isn't secure. Internal e-mail is secure if configured correctly. I agree that if security is a concern than the iPhone isn't for you.

 

[dotNetFreak]

Let's not forget that it took 3 releases of the iPhone before it supported copy and paste...

 

[dotNetFreak]

It's difficult to "sell" BlackBerry to those that have never used one because unless their first introduction to one is in an Enterprise envrionment I think the Iphone will appear more attractive to all but the heavy email user in the Prosumer (BIS) arena.

I tell others that I wouldn't bother with a BlackBerry unless it's running in Enterprise mode, despite the significant increase in cost, because I know I get so much more out of it in this configuration.

Out of interest which version of BES are you running v4.x or v5.x?

 

[jimm]

Another reason why the iphone is a laugh for me, for anything enterprise, is that one cannot (AFAIK) change the battery. I dock my BlackBerry Bold and can charge a spare battery on the back of that. Even though I usually get 2-3 days out of the Bold with 3g turned off (no need for 3g for email and messaging), I like to have a spare battery on hand when I travel.

RIM heavily compress the data between the BlackBerry and the NOC (all BlackBerry emails go through one of two worldwide NOCs). Two weeks of heavy emailing and messaging around some of the most expensive mobile roaming countries in the world cost me less than £20.

I love the way that Windows Messenger, Google Talk, Y! etc all integrate into my inbox. No need to constantly switch between apps as all my messages are in the one place. (I know I said that before but it's really useful!)

Finally I love the BlackBerry shortcuts. For instance, when viewing the inbox I can press B to go to the bottom of it, and T to go to the top of it. Alt + Wheel scroll speeds up moving around the inbox in either direction. There are tonnes of little speed up key combinations. Multitouch is great but keyboard shortcuts can be an excellent way of improving productivity.

Until recently it wasn't possible to search through emails on the Iphone or search the full Outlook PST held on the Exchange server but that might have changed now. I can search through emails right back to 2006 using the Remote search.

It's difficult to "sell" BlackBerry to those that have never used one because unless their first introduction to one is in an Enterprise envrionment I think the Iphone will appear more attractive to all but the heavy email user in the Prosumer (BIS) arena.

I tell others that I wouldn't bother with a BlackBerry unless it's running in Enterprise mode, despite the significant increase in cost, because I know I get so much more out of it in this configuration.

Absolutly great answer. That indeed highlights the advantages and alternitive methods of the BB. Presonally I would say there is only one usefull advantage there and thats the compression of email (and even then the data going through BBs NOC would put concerns in my mind).
Battery isnt an issue for me. My iPhone runs 2 days easily and if I travel longer I have many easy ways to charge it.
Emails all in one place works for some, wouldnt work for me. Same for shortcuts. Probably great but equally good stuff on iPhone.
Searching, Yep might be good for some, but i can count on one hand the times I have wanted to go further back that 90 days.

BB's allow you to set out of office replies from the handset, but as far as I know iPhones don't support this without a 3rd party app.

Or just set it before you go OoO.
But yeah occasionally it may be used.

BES allows you to control and manage just about every aspect of the BB via centralised granular policies. Something the iPhone does not. Ok, no small business is really going to care about this, they have enough problems keeping their AV up-to-date, let alone worry about what Joe is doing on his phone, but for larger installations this is fairly important.

Thats good to know. I can see that being used in large enterprise with resources to actually do this properly.

No, true, but it does mean that Apple have a *lot* of catching up to do if they want to break into the enterprise market.

From my experiance in SME iPhones have made big inroads in the phone arena and they dont have much catching up to do at all. Sure they do have catching up to do if they were going for BES equivilent but they arent and the majority dont actually need that.

There are a lot of Smartphones to choose from, I'm not convinced that the iPhone should be the phone of choice for 80% of users, especially when officially there is only one carrier to choose from and the battery life is shockingly bad.

As I say that is my oppinion and I am
As for battery. i dont think 2 days is shocking and its only o2 for another 3 months.

No, external e-mail isn't secure. Internal e-mail is secure if configured correctly. I agree that if security is a concern than the iPhone isn't for you.

The iphone is as secure as any device in the real world. People arent sat on trains waiting to capture your 3g data to get your mail. You loose your phone and you issue a wipe command. I think to say "if security is a concern than the iPhone isn't for you" is over the top. It more like if tinfoil hats are for you, the iPhone isnt.

As for copy pasta, yeah it took 3 versions but im buying now not last year.

So to recap. If you work for a large company you will be given a BB so dont buy anything, its provided. If you need the minor advantages to do with exchange then its possible a BB is for you.

This has been a great thread. Its been good to discus tech with some knowledgeable people. It has opened my eyes to the benefits BB can provide. I still dont think they are big enough benefits that the vast majority of users should choose BB but I do acknowledge them.

 

[retired_member16]

It still makes farting noises too

 

[dotNetFreak]

From my experiance in SME iPhones have made big inroads in the phone arena and they dont have much catching up to do at all. Sure they do have catching up to do if they were going for BES equivilent but they arent and the majority dont actually need that.

Sure, in the SME market they probably don't have much catching up to do, just a couple of tweaks here and there.

its only o2 for another 3 months

True, but I though that there was talk that o2 would still retain sole rights to the 3G S and that competitors could only ship the 3G...?

The iphone is as secure as any device in the real world. People arent sat on trains waiting to capture your 3g data to get your mail. You loose your phone and you issue a wipe command. I think to say "if security is a concern than the iPhone isn't for you" is over the top. It more like if tinfoil hats are for you, the iPhone isnt.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but BB's like other's can be used for much more than simply e-mailing which is why security is a major concern. This is probably a mute point anyhow as in sensitive environments an iPhone would simply not even be considered.

This has been a great thread. Its been good to discus tech with some knowledgeable people. It has opened my eyes to the benefits BB can provide. I still dont think they are big enough benefits that the vast majority of users should choose BB but I do acknowledge them.

I would agree with what invincible said and that unless you're using a BB in an enterprise configuration, there probably isn't a lot of point...

It's good to be able to have a sensible discussion without it turning into a pi***ng contest

 

[mat]

So what phone should i get?

 

[SF]

iphone ................

 

[dotNetFreak]

Curve 8900

 

[dotNetFreak]

I think it's 4. It's whatever ExchangeMyMail.com run with Exchange 2007. Isn't 5 out "soon"? I don't run my *own* Exchange and BES. I'm not a large enough organisation to need a dedicated one and thus hire someone to manage it all (I've not got time to manage my own Exchange/BES and I cannot afford the downtime if I screwed it up). I prefer letting a company that do it on a massive scale look after it.

v5.01 is out but I'm also on a v4.x server. Must take a look and see if there is anything worth upgrading it for...

I was half hoping you would say you were running your own which you had recently upgraded to v5.x

 

[jimm]

So what phone should i get?

iPhone...

 

[boxerdog]

iphone, if you like to use your mobile as a spirit level,fart machine or drumkit
blackberry................for everything else!!

​

 

[dotNetFreak]

Here we go again

 

[rjs_essex]

iphone, if you like to use your mobile as a spirit level,fart machine or drumkit
blackberry................for everything else!!

​

It strange that people perseption of the iPhone is just this... Obviously as a direct result of Apple marketing strategy and recent press on certain apps.

I have an iPhone and only have good experience of what an excellent business tool it is.

I use the following apps nearly on a daily basis:

PayPal - Seamless PayPal hstory lookup and transactions
Stocks - Instant stock exchange rsults and graphical market view
Currency - To check the current exchange rates
Wordpress - To update my blogs
TweetDeck - To check my Twitter feed and send updates
Skype - For Skype connectivity
Safari - For full web browsing

I'm currently looking at sorting out a hosted exchange solution to for push emails and instant outlook sync so as you can see this is far from a toy...

Of course, I have the luxury of being ablt to download a whole load of entertainment apps too, including 'Now Playing' for cinema listings, reviews, and show times based on GPS location, Bars and Pubs to find the nearest local in a 'non' local area, Facebook, a whole host of games and of course, it doubles as an iPod with full movie rental/purchase support which is brilliant for long train journys and flights.

It does pretty much everything and isnt just a 'fart' machine as some people would have you believe.

Rich

 

[rjs_essex]

P.S. I'm not knocking any of the BBs... Ive seen a few in action and have heard good and bad things about all of the latest models... This is just my own personal experience... I can't see myself getting anything other than the next iPhone when it is released.