sports domain

[turbo]

Hi

I am looking to purchase a sports domain which I know is for sale. It is a co uk domain and is the name of the sport (which is becoming ever more popular). I have a rough idea of what it will be sold for (circa £ 25k) and would like to know if this sounds like a reasonable price

Am looking to get a domain valuation - are theer any sites / companies people would recommend?

Thanks

 

[Jeewhizz]

We've used Rob Taylor in the past, from Hey.co.uk Ltd. He does a decent valuation, and well worth it if you are doing to spend that sort of money. Costs around £100 I think.

More details here: Domain Appraisal and Valuation

He's also a member here - username is 'rob'

 

[lebowski]

Could not possibly say whether the price level is reasonable without knowing the domain name. Drop me a PM if you like and I'll give you my opinion.

 

[tan]

Intersting decision

 

[Takwa]

There's no point paying anyone any money for an appraisal because no matter what anyone says there's no such thing as a definitive (I'd argue even vague) valuation for a domain. If anyone disagrees try asking your bank manager to lend you money using domains as security.

When it comes to domains, there's the lowest price the registrant will take and the highest the potential buyer will pay, if both parties are in the same range then a deal can be done. My advice is to keep your money in your pocket, contact the seller and negotiate from there.

Interesting do you think my mortgage advisor will let me use my domains as deposit?

 

[rob]

Valuations are not just require for buying and selling purposes

Lack of information can also be a good reason for a sensible valuation / opinion.

There is a good recent thread where iow was purchased earlier in the year for £85 , right there is an example of the value of a second opinion. I am sure the buyer will disagree According to the basic logic of markets stuff is worth what someone will pay for it, however if there is an imperfect market then the above issues can occur. With anything in the world, having less information can only be a disadvantage.

As for paying for it, I have done several for members on Acorn and advised others to post directly here asking for free opinions. One good example of this is Students.co.uk, if that was posted up for a free valuation prior to it being purchased for £4k I am sure others would have offered far in excess of that.

Information is key to everything, some of it is free and some of it costs. Which information has value is entirely subjective, but personally I rate it according to accuracy and foundation.

Cheers,
Rob.

 

[turbo]

Intersting decision

How do you mean?

 

[rob]

How do you mean?

I would ignore that user, looking at his other posts it seems he is trying to post about on forums to get his homepage linked about - very poor attempt at astroturfing

 

[rob]

You've told us how stupid sellers can be which is what we as buyers hope to stumble on but you've failed to say how a valuation will help a buyer who already knows his limit. It doesn't matter what price you tell him the name is worth because if the seller isn't prepared to sell at that price then he isn't going to own it.

In summary yes. If it is Joe Bloggs from the street saying 'that name is worth x' then I would expect a seller to tell them to sod off. If it has some basis then its more worthwhile information.

I agree it is like anything - you have to persuade people to sell and in base terms that means £price + £incentive to sell = £end sales price.

Much like if buying a house, if the asking price is £1mil and you know the area and historic prices are £500k would you fail to mention that? Similarly you would not be shopping for £500k houses with a budget of £100k , so education and information is exchanged prior to that to find out what could be expected.

'Stupidity' can go both ways, sellers obviously want the best possible price but if that is +1 over the buyers budget then there is no sale All obvious stuff and if there is no cash to buy there is no cash to buy - thats where you get creative, again figures need justification rather than finger-in-air.

In my experiance this has aided buyers by opening their eyes to the reasons behind values. This can result in bigger budgets being found, but again if there is no more cash then obvious no deal is done.

It also depends if you treat domains as one off single sales, or part of a wider market. I believe in the latter and thus information about the market can be used in a beneficial way for everyone.

 

[rob]

View Post
Information is key to everything, some of it is free and some of it costs. Which information has value is entirely subjective, but personally I rate it according to accuracy and foundation.

I assume from this you mean that you're the expert and the rest of us know sod all

Missed your cheeky edit there

For the reasons above it does not mean that at all, it means I consider information exactly as I said, accuracy and foundation.

I would like to think my thoughts on domains would have more basis than Mr Bloggs or AN Other, similarly you just have to read this forum to see the range of views and varying bias and foundation - or lack of!

There have been big sales that are consistantly claimed as fake because they are over a certain figure, there are crazy valuations (both too big and too small) which are either out there for the posters gain or prevents movement on any sales as the owner believes their £10k name is worth £100k .

On the flip side there are very experienced users on here who give great info and really ought to be listened to and often are.

If you honestly take everyones input without qualification then I hope to god you are not reading the mobi / .me posts and forking out the zillions that they are apparently worth

 

[Pred]

Hi

I am looking to purchase a sports domain which I know is for sale. It is a co uk domain and is the name of the sport (which is becoming ever more popular). I have a rough idea of what it will be sold for (circa £ 25k) and would like to know if this sounds like a reasonable price

Am looking to get a domain valuation - are theer any sites / companies people would recommend?

Thanks

do some research, as a start

http://domainprices.co.uk

its free

secondly think about what its worth to you. what are your plans for it. what can you really afford.

 

[rob]

Rob, I'm sorry but I disagree entirely, to compare the domain market to the housing market is ludicrous, the value of a domain name is purely subjective and we can argue till the cows come home otherwise but it's a fact that a domain is worth only what a buyer wants to pay and a seller wants to sell for

That is exactly how the house market works. However prior to making offers the buyer works out their budget, and the seller places their house in a price band - based on information!

Tins of baked beans are the same - Tesco price them up at 10p, you either buy them or you dont. Tesco believes due to their information (costs, market forces etc) that they can shift beans at 10p a pop.

Before this becomes a battle of two ego's, Turbo my free advice is unless you feel very confident dealing with it yourself, engage the services of someone who can negotiate a sale at a price that saves you money without offending the seller and making a sale impossible, that's where the real skill lies in buying a name.

No sure what you mean on 'battle of egos' - it is more ideology I believe in markets, you are more liberal than that

As for your advice, how can you make an offer 'without offending the seller' when you do not have information on what would!? A buyers top budget does not equate to a sales price no matter how many try

Well your thoughts would have a damn site more credibility than my mothers but no more than anyone else that has moved in this space for a number of years. Ownership of a great portfolio of domains doesn't make you a fount of all knowledge and it certainly doesn't justify charging someone £100 for a valuation.

Say your mum has a domain she wishes to sell and she cannot get in touch with her son; she has to become confident herself in the value as she does not want to be robbed blind. This can take hours of research just to discover the existance of stuff like DNJournal and DomainPrices, let alone posting on forums, researching the responders, finding out the market etc

If her time to do everything is under £100 then shes better off doing it herself, if it is over it then she is better off getting me to do it or the like.

Much like when buying a car you can pay a third party to get it checked out, or a house to get a survey done, you pay others for their expertise and time.

Not everyone requires it, just like I do not expect a mechanic to call out the AA to do a 100 point check I do not expect a domainer to be on the phone to me over every deal

 

[julian]

Just use domtastic.co.uk - its the most accurate domain appraisal tool known to man...

 

[rob]

It'd be cheaper and make as much sense

From domtastic: "To get a realistic appraisal you need to answer the questions as truthfully & accurately as possible."

Whats this? quality of opinion the tool gives is based on on accuracy and foundation?! :twisted:

Considering the questions include age (ability to use the whois, and know about prenoms), traffic (isnt that whats on roads?!), TM searches etc you need a certain level of awareness to know how to use it properly.

If you get your mum to fill it out compared to you would there be a different result?


If you want to continue to argue that your time is worth £0.00 then I have lots of jobs I am happy for you to do at that rate :lol:

 

[rob]

I'm telling him not to waste his £100 buying your time, because it won't help him buy his name.

Perhaps rather than keep telling us how you can help a seller get a better price, you could instead tell Turbo why your £100 appraisal is going to help him buy his name and I don't mean a long list justifying your fee.

Popping out in abit but have some of my valuable time for free to help you

1 - I have not touted for business, he asked for recomendations and got one - quite a big difference.

2 - I am posting as you claimed there is no definitive or vague value to a domain and I totally disagree.

3 - If you actually read the inital post he knows the price of the name and thinks its a good deal - 'sounds like a reasonable price'.

The latter is where value could be added. The problem is 'turbo' not knowing if the name is worth £25k? Solution: Ask someone who can advise better. If the solution is worth 100 quid to the person they get good value, if not it is overpriced, again markets at work.

He will either be overpaying for the domain, paying a fair price or getting a bargain - further information there would be worth knowing IMHO. I realise in your logic that is pointless as it will not affect the sale in any way - but such information does and can not just affect deals but also how they sit with buyers and sellers.

Personally I think this is a poor response from the forum - a guy wants to fork out £25,000 and you are flippantly telling him to use domtastic to value it. Perhaps you would like to sell me Rallying.co.uk for a domtastic valuation? Thought not.

I am not having a go at Julians free tool as it gives a guide based on inputs and applys them according to the programmers thoughts, but going by one example I tried (football.co.uk as its a sport!) there could be £85,000 worth of difference based on information on whois and traffic. Traffic figures can genuinely not be known, however registration dates can be discovered by those with a skillset.

Just because you are aware of how to use things does not mean others are and it is a pretty blinkered view of things to be honest. I realise it may strike people as very simple to check a whois record, but to do it you need to know they exist.

I feel I am going down the road of a previous thread starting at http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/general-board/13616-buy-your-snake-oil-here.html#post56698 where basically you claim domains have little value and wanting the going rate is narrow minded and based on a work of fiction as there is no such thing.

Oddly enough that thread was two years ago and I said To be fair any deal over £5k I have been involved in I have paid for an appraisal as it is a data based industry and you need all the information out there. Every time it has been close but usually 10-25% out on the final selling price.

You then accepted that and adjusted your comments accordingly - what has changed? Information on markets is key, its that simple.

If the free market still confuses you read on from http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/general-board/13616-buy-your-snake-oil-here-7.html#post56826 as Edwin pretty much nails it.

Read the rest of that thread for my replies to this one... will save my keyboard from c+p wear

 

[domainseller200]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but after reading it all, I wanted to post something.

Rob has not touted for business at all, his services were actually mentioned by another member that he has done work for them before and they were satisfied.

Rob comes across in more ways than one as very respected and know's what he is talking about (which I have no doubts at all as I have dealt with him a few times myself)

Getting a domain appraisal or asking for an "experts" opinion is a good idea, for the reasons that Rob has pointed out. There are no recognised "experts" in this field, but from all the years and experience that Rob has got trading domains, he is going to be one of the best and most honest you would get from anywhere and anyone.

I have lost count the amount of times that I have been excited about certain domains, and then told "joe bloggs" about them, and they have just shrugged their shoulders and said "so what"

On the other hand, it is very refreshing when you do tell someone who has an experienced opinion and knows the business better than most, as they then talk the same language as you and on the flip side, they can really also bring you down to earth if your domain is crap also

Just IMO of course

 

[julian]

to be fair when making seriously (possibly life changing) purchase its not a bad idea to bounce different opinions - I still need rob, stevie etc to hold my hand if i'm buying reg'fee domains even now

imho, paying for an appraisal from sedo or rob etc is not really a waste of money if your planning to invest serious ££,£££ in a domain as they might highlight things you have missed - I think about it as not losing £100 but possibly saving yourself £,£££'s

there are certain domains that it is 99.9% crystal clear they have great value - even to your average window licking highstreet mongs: loans .co.uk

but the less 'pure' the domain its gets the harder it might be to give an accurate valuation as buying any domain based on its potential value comes with a certain amount of speculation.

 

[turbo]

I dont want to reveal the domain name as its in negotiations at the moment - but I have just used the domtatsic tool and it seems that one us of us (buyer / seller) could be out by as much as £ 150k. The domain does not have much traffic but I'm not sure how relevant that is as it is the name of the sport itself.

I see that sport.co.uk sold this year for £135k and that is a generic name - would, or could, an individual sport sell for even more? Let's just say, its not football!!

 

[rob]

Each to their own on different levels of professionality and thoroughness but if I am spending £25k I would want the best information out there.

Similar, I was careful not to insult Julians service which I would endorse as it serves a purpose, however to base spending 25,000 £ on it is sheer folly.

I am aware of instances where sellers have been educated towards reality from a position of basic price insanity. I know that is hard to understand but it does happen.

As for...

It's an interesting thread that, I can now tell you that the domain I was talking about was pitstop .co.uk I paid £4500 for it. Was I right or wrong to feel aggrieved.

Thanks for totally ignoring the point, that back in the day paid appraisals raised but not an eyebrow to you.

As for pitstop.co.uk, why are you asking me? Go ask some random bloke in the street

 

[rob]

I dont want to reveal the domain name as its in negotiations at the moment - but I have just used the domtatsic tool and it seems that one us of us (buyer / seller) could be out by as much as £ 150k. The domain does not have much traffic but I'm not sure how relevant that is as it is the name of the sport itself.

Sorry about that - ignore what the domtastic site says, certainly do not get a loan out for excess of your budget based on what it says! As above, my test gave a margin of error of £85,000 on a drop down list difference

Unfortunately you have hit on someone wanting a political/economic debate in the middle of your genuine thread and is making sarky comments to score points. Either he is rich enough that £25,000 is such an insignificant amount that it can be treated in jest or he has had a total judgement failure and making someones real life situation into a vehicle for debate.

I see that sport.co.uk sold this year for £135k and that is a generic name - would, or could, an individual sport sell for even more? Let's just say, its not football!!

Short answer - yes, individual sport name would sell for more.

Sport.co.uk is a cracking name, IMHO you would want the plural Sports.co.uk to go hand in hand prior to full use so that affects the value to a degree. Generally with those I have spoken to the domain was seen as quite cheap, as it was around the time of a few other sales and the market has stepped up to a degree.

Domains such as Tennis.co.uk and most of all Football.co.uk ought to be in a higher price range due to their popularity. I am aware of a couple of other privately owned sport names that would require 6 fig offers to tempt the current owners, all are micro-busineses in their own right and the asking prize is not (IMHO) crazy.

Good luck with the negotiations - and whatever happens please report back to Acorn as its good to know whats going on... you never know we might get some idea of a 'market' going on here !