problem with nominet epp?

[atlas]

If the registrar has kept it, which I've no belief they have, the registrant details would need to change. The domain name can't remain in the name of the previous registrant.

I'm not sure why that would be true. On a .com domain, I once received an offer for a domain I dropped. It turned out that the registrar had renewed the domain and kept it in my name. I complained to ICANN and all that happened is that the registrant details were changed by the registrar to a whois privacy service.

 

[ian]

If it were possible for anyone to renew it I wouldn't put it past someone else renewing it for a few pounds just to prevent opportunists from "drop catching it".

By its very nature, wouldn't someone registering it to prevent a drop catcher registering it be almost the same thing! Is drop catching really any worse than those with huge premium portfolios that rarely ever get sold; at least drop caught domains sometimes get sold on to end-users.

 

[RobM]

If the registrar has kept it, which I've no belief they have, the registrant details would need to change. The domain name can't remain in the name of the previous registrant.

I'm assuming that @RobM with all your presumed databases of information aren't aware of any others since that time I have cited?

Never looked. However this will all be moot when the golfdirect registrant confirms whether or not they renewed. If they didn't, according to your own logic, heart domains have breached their agreement with nominet and I'm sure will be terminated.

 

[RobM]

Indeed and if the person shown in the registrant field lets us know that he didn't give permission for the domain to be renewed I'm sure you'll stop looking for excuses without *actually* finding anything out won't you?

 

[RobM]

'I'm afraid that sometimes you just have to presume things are being done correctly despite not actually knowing for certain that they are'

And there you have it. David your mask has slipped. I won't be wasting my breath on you anymore.

 

[ian]

Is the registrant going to confirm this?

I can probably find out if it remains a pressing issue, but not until the later part of next week earliest. It seems too coincidental that two entirely separate registrants renewed on the same day of the drop (albeit a couple of days apart), but equally the registrars were different too, unless 1&1 and Heart are the same company. Not disgruntled though, if the registrants genuinely renewed last minute, after realising or even a tip off, so be it, no different than renewing at any point during expiry, just seems a little odd.

 

[timter51]

@ian-d just to throw fuel onto the fire, it wasn't 1&1 as you stated but was 123-Reg (pcg.co.uk) and HeartInternet (golfdirect.co.uk). Unlike 1&1 those registrars are related.

Let's also rememher that another member of the HEG family, DomainMonster, have previous in this area.

 

[timter51]

Discussed already but on that occasion, perhaps 18-24 months ago, those domain names were being transferred to other parties who had purchased back orders at that registrar. This hasn't yet happened with either of the examples given in the last few days.

HEG registrars account for a very sizeable number of *.uk domain names under management

Christ you're right, thought it was only last year, it was June 2014! We'll here's a question then, did anyone have pcg.co.uk backordered at 123-reg?

 

[ian]

Based on the above, "too coincidental" based on what statistical information? Because... you don't recall noticing it before?Quite.

Coincidental based entirely on expecting those domains to be the pick of the best that particular day, but that of course is only my view, but I suspect it was similar for others. Nothing more than that though, it would be interesting to know how many domains are renewed on the day of the drop; I suspect as you've said, RobM would probably be best placed to know, but entirely up to him whether he wants to spend the time, or divulge.

@ian-d just to throw fuel onto the fire, it wasn't 1&1 as you stated but was 123-Reg (pcg.co.uk) and HeartInternet (golfdirect.co.uk). Unlike 1&1 those registrars are related.

Oh, my error, but makes it even more interesting then; might be that we have to collectively monitor their renewals to see if it continues, but it comes down to what I guess they perceive as worth saving; but I'm sure they have resources like the rest of us to see what has been publically booked for catch etc.

 

[ian]

Assuming they still offer back ordering, why would it matter? Unlike back then, on these occasions the domain names have simply been renewed and not transferred.

For now...(keep monitoring it!)...but again, that may only prove that the registrant was asked by a potential buyer to renew it then sell it to them, but it seems less likely so late in the cancellation process...all guess work for now, but good fun!

 

[timter51]

Assuming they still offer back ordering, why would it matter? Unlike back then, on these occasions the domain names have simply been renewed and not transferred.

Assuming that pcg.co.uk has genuinely been left under the ownership of the original registrant, then it shows that 123-reg just want to keep the domain "on their books". It could be that if someone backorders it with them, it goes to them, if not, it stays with original registrant. This might also be a way of then tying the registrant in to a "can we take over the domain if you let it expire?" clause (I haven't checked that, but it was something certainly floated in the past). All this of course is BS if these were genuinely innocent late renewals.

 

[RobM]

I suspect as you've said, RobM would probably be best placed to know, but entirely up to him whether he wants to spend the time, or divulge.

To be honest I don't check all the lists every day. However I know from the amount of dropchasers chasing (around 20-30 usually) and my own tag backorders that it is rare for a renewal on the day of the drop. On the occasions it has happened I have never seen a renewed domain 'parked' passing all it's traffic to the registrar. Until now of course. But it's all OK because David said so. I'm reminded of the domain tasting fiasco in .com of the early 2000's when certain people cried blue in the face that it wasn't happening even though it was being seen by others and documented. There are always people who try to make you look the other way as they pick your pocket. Not saying that is the case here but Nominet pushed through .uk and a price hike and, looking back on this forum, certain mouthpieces said things weren't happening that clearly were. Add to that evidence of corruption in the past, the Leslie Cowley farce, etc and I don't trust this company nor its representatives to tell me I need an umbrella if it's pouring down.

 

[ian]

All of this doesn't take into account that pcg.co.uk was due to drop during the day it was renewed and it was renewed late in the day. No registrar would wish to risk an attractive domain name being deleted by the registry from under their nose, if they wanted to retain it for themselves or pass it onto another registrant, by waiting to renew it well into the day of deletion.

Wasn't this part of the discussion though, to determine whether the registrar, given their standing with Nominet, may be privy to information on the so called 'automated' timing? Seems more sinister that two registrars own by the same parent company have done this in recent days. Just for the record though, I did some extensive analysis of the drop times and couldn't find any pattern note worthy, but that isn't to say that Nominet don't know come midnight when domains will drop, assuming they are all allocated a time at that point to space them evenly throughout the 24 hour period. Makes for interesting conspiracy theories if nothing else.

 

[ian]

Hypothetically, if a registrar (I don't believe they do) knew the exact time a particular domain name was going to drop why would they choose to draw attention to this (twice) by renewing late? Why not renew it earlier? What's the advantage other than to create debate here?

Being hypothetical too, we could speculate that Nominet have been requested by the registrar to renew specific domains at the time of drop, rather than cancel them. No idea of the benefit of this, but just another possibility we'll never get an answer to. Could all be innocent of course, but wouldn't put anything past the big players (or Nominet).

 

[ian]

Why wouldn't you? Is it because if you were such a big player you would in fact be engaging in this very kind of stuff?

Why would a registry such as Nominet wish to involve itself in a daft scheme such as this?

Because board members at Nominet have association with the big registrars, and are out to line their pockets maybe!

 

[ian]

Well I certainly don't feel like the world owes me anything, and if I get beat to a domain on the drop, then so be it (though it does grate when you know it was caught by duplicate tags), you simply move onto the next. It doesn't mean that we aren't entitled to question how two domains in as many days were caught many hours into the drop day, but equally there could be many more that the registrant doesn't renew before the drop when they intended to. We don't know how they operate, apart from 'last minute'. Just have to wait and see if it continues happening, and under the same tags.

 

[ian]

If you feel you know, or suspect, why don't you report it? The rules are there for a reason. If you don't some might wonder is it because you feel you reserve the right to run multiple tags too? Alternatively if multiple tags were permitted (and don't you think that those running DAC/EPP hosting services have much more of an overview by "hosting" many tags for third parties than a true one man/one tag operation) would you then be able to get on and legtimately multi tag yourself without feeling you were breaking any rules?

I have no intention of breaching the rules by running multiple tags thanks, just a shame some do.

You won't hear about the second lot, except when a member of this forum makes a post here saying they've received an email from a former registrant asking for a domain name they forgot to renew to be returned and how much should they ask for it.

Ah, that one turned out ok.

 

[RobM]

Heh still arguing with David. This is how it goes:
David: that doesn't happen
Others: yes it does
David: then do it yourself
Others: that doesn't fix it happening
David: that doesn't happen
**time goes by and it is discover that does happen**
Others: See it does happen
David: OK but this other thing doesn't happen
Others: yes it does
David: then do it yourself
*rinse repeat*

Really it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[ian]

Don't follow.

Good!

 

[ian]

Why don't you report those who you believe are breaching the anti avoidance rules?

Well, I haven't based it on nothing, but of course Nominet can do no wrong, naturally!

If multiple tags were permitted...would you then be able to get on and legitimately multi tag yourself without feeling you were breaking any rules?

If multiple tags were permitted, it wouldn't be breaking the rules would it! Would I do it, if it was within the rules/agreement, and would benefit me financially, sure! But it doesn't, so I won't.