Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[newguy]

No. It's common sense.

If you go into a negotiation with only one position, and you have no intention of budging REGARDLESS of the likelihood of that outcome, then there are only two possibilities:
A) You get what you want
B) You get stuck with somebody else's outcome, which you've had no part in shaping

You can push for A) with all your might, but it makes sense to simultaneously work the process to shape B) in case A) doesn't happen.

Not to mention that the V1 proposal wasn't scrapped, it was modified and re-introduced.

I don't disagree with what you say, I simply think that for some it's a matter of principle. If someone views something as being fundamentally wrong, pointless or negative they don't always feel the need, nor should they, to open up to other options, when the very act of doing so may increase the likelyhood of that eventuality coming about.

Just trying to get a point out there that, which I've seen stated by some long standing members here but is getting lost in the fray. A handful of people have stated views that are seemingly counter to their own business interests. Those are interesting takes in my view and I don't like the idea that they get totally drowned out. You may well be right. It will very likely go ahead anyway. Will be interesting to see what the future holds for the .uk space.

 

[scooter]

Actually, to enhance that, let the successfully qualifying name be automatically redirected by Nominet to the .uk, and then rendered unavailable for ever more.

+1

Surely the arguments that were originally put on this forum still stand? .UK is not required.


If they are hell bent on introducing it then the argument should still be made that 2 commercial namespaces in the UK are not required. It makes no business sense.


Nominet are meant to be looking after uk business interests. By introducing another commercial namesapce to compete with one already established is commercial madness.


No business will want this apart from Nominet. It is not in the UK's commercial interest to have 2 competing names in the commercial namespace.


I'm with Anthony.





....


Lets have 1 commercial namespace and if they want more money, let them raise the prices but the argument should not be another level is required because of the "millions" of businesses still to come online.


Before, the argument was a more "secure" namespace was required.



.

 

[scooter]

I'm still not sure why .co.uk should be granted automatic rights to the extension?

Because it would be a straight swap for existing .co.uk's and co.uk would die a natural death. No more new co.uk registrations.


You lot are like a bunch of vultures :mrgreen: Your focus has completely moved.




.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Because it would be a straight swap for existing .co.uk's and co.uk would die a natural death. No more new co.uk registrations.

I don't think there is any need to sidetrack a 42 page important discussion with any pie in the sky ideas about dumping .co.uk - its never going to happen in a million years, and spamming up this thread with repeated mentions of it is surely counterproductive to discussing the real issues at hand...

 

[Retired_Member42]

You can't seriously think that whatever the proposal, they're going to phase out .co.uk domains? Whatever they do, that won't happen. It can't happen. Any proposal needs to include .co.uk remaining available which is what is bringing about the issue of who exactly gets the .uk version. You can just force people to re-brand even if they do a redirection via Nominet....

 

[GreyWing]

But that's what happened with phone numbers in the early 90's, people / businesses didn't have too much trouble. They changed the whole countries phone numbers in one go, overnight. There was a lot of scaremongering, but no end of world scenario.

They did it with mobiles in the late 90's, after starting 08 and about 3 million mobile users at that time, they changed so everyones went to 07.

It is no longer what anyone is proposing. What was being suggested was duel resolving for 3,4,5 years (now being proposed is indefinite linkage) but even if it was shut down of .co.uk overnight in 6 months, I don't see where it "can't be done" comes from.

 

[scooter]

I don't think there is any need to sidetrack a 42 page important discussion with any pie in the sky ideas about dumping .co.uk - its never going to happen in a million years, and spamming up this thread with repeated mentions of it is surely counterproductive to discussing the real issues at hand...

I'm not spamming anything. You have got 42 pages of "what ifs"

What if Nominet don't go ahead with the proposal. You have 42 pages of nothing.

All I am trying to do is offer an alternative to their argument. The same argument thay have already changed from a security issue.

"what if" all businesses got together and said it is not required and if you do go ahead then let the co.uk die so there are no competing conflicts of interest that has only manifested in Nominets proposal.

Why could the argument not be made. Let existing businesses keep their co.uk, get the .uk and make future co.uk unavailable.

The focus I can see from Nominet is only one of greed. Surely the argument should still stand, 2 competing commercial namespaces in the UK is not in the interest of UK business. Only Nominet coffers.



.

 

[GreyWing]

Let existing businesses keep their co.uk, get the .uk and make future co.uk unavailable.
.

That is a very very good point, I'd like to include that last bit in the new proposal. Making it unavailable to new customers was the missing link I think the new skeleton proposal needed to be honest.

 

[Edwin]

It is no longer what anyone is proposing. What was being suggested was duel resolving for 3,4,5 years (now being proposed is indefinite linkage) but even if it was shut down of .co.uk overnight in 6 months, I don't see where it "can't be done" comes from.

Websites are global.

You're talking about a move that damages sites based on .co.uk domains vs any other domain. At one stroke, you'd vapourise every shred of trust left in .co.uk and leave it with the biggest "negative brand equity" of any cctld in the world. Nobody would EVER buy an (anything).uk domain again.

Consider...
- All historic links will break.
- All references to the "old" urls everywhere will be invalid (offline and online... as has already been discussed, online is the tippy tip of the iceberg)
- You'd be asking firms to flush down the toilet every scrap of branding they've ever done to try and establish their existing web addresses. Across all companies and all industries, that's £billions of wasted money

If you think the opposition to V1 was loud, it's literally as nothing compared to the avalanche of criticism that even SUGGESTING such a move would bring down. If Nominet ever did, I think the government would be in control by tea-time the same day. It's that ridiculously counter-productive.

 

[websaway]

I don't think there is any need to sidetrack a 42 page important discussion with any pie in the sky ideas about dumping .co.uk - its never going to happen in a million years, and spamming up this thread with repeated mentions of it is surely counterproductive to discussing the real issues at hand...

Is suggesting scrapping co.uk any more ridiculous than suggesting introducing .uk ?

 

[Retired_Member38]

Is suggesting scrapping co.uk any more ridiculous than suggesting introducing .uk ?

See Edwins post above yours.

 

[grantw]

I don't think there is any need to sidetrack a 42 page important discussion with any pie in the sky ideas about dumping .co.uk - its never going to happen in a million years, and spamming up this thread with repeated mentions of it is surely counterproductive to discussing the real issues at hand...

I don't see any reason why it can't happen and I don't see his comments as spam. Nominet were previously trying to sell the idea based on security, now that's been ditched they're just left with the reason that it's needed to compete with the new TLDs that are coming out. Which in my opinion is complete nonsense.

There are many issues and imaginary situations being discussed on here but the most basic thing that needs challenging is the validity of Nominets new main reason to introduce .uk in the first place.

Grant

 

[Edwin]

Is suggesting scrapping co.uk any more ridiculous than suggesting introducing .uk ?

Yes, thousands of times less rational.

It is possible to put together scenarios where ".uk" makes some kind of sense. In some scenarios, it makes quite a reasonable amount of success.

It is impossible to defend, on a commercially rational basis, any scenario where .co.uk is scrapped entirely.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Its not spam... but its just so ridiculous it doesn't even warrant discussion anymore than an alternative that suggests swapping domain names for 20 digit numbers instead.

 

[GreyWing]

Websites are global.

You're talking about a move that damages sites based on .co.uk domains vs any other domain. At one stroke, you'd vapourise every shred of trust left in .co.uk and leave it with the biggest "negative brand equity" of any cctld in the world. Nobody would EVER buy an (anything).uk domain again.

Consider...
- All historic links will break.
- All references to the "old" urls everywhere will be invalid (offline and online... as has already been discussed, online is the tippy tip of the iceberg)
- You'd be asking firms to flush down the toilet every scrap of branding they've ever done to try and establish their existing web addresses. Across all companies and all industries, that's £billions of wasted money

If you think the opposition to V1 was loud, it's literally as nothing compared to the avalanche of criticism that even SUGGESTING such a move would bring down. If Nominet ever did, I think the government would be in control by tea-time the same day. It's that ridiculously counter-productive.

As we said mate we ain't proposing ending .co.uk, but I was proposing that point that within 4 weeks people would just get on with their lives and use .uk

Under the current proposals .uk which reflects sites that sometimes were previously on .co.uk others that were on .org.uk, some .me.uk, Some that never took up .uk and still on .co.uk but the public think they are the same. Is a mess that will drag on for years and years.

Non uniformity is what will confuse people and lead to lack of confidence in .uk. Imagine if they upgraded some phone numbers to 07 but not all, some phone numbers were given the 1 prefix, but not others.

That is the mess we are faced with here.

 

[AssetDomains]

Why is that fairer than giving it to the oldest registrant? Nominet has never claimed that non-profits are "second class citizens". It's only the aftermarket that has decided to significantly undervalue .org.uk domains vs their .co.uk counterparts.

No The market as a whole has decided this By the fact 92.6% of the domains registered are .co.uk and just are 5.8%.org.uk
http://db.nominet.org.uk/page/the-uk-in-detail/

You're right. It's not fair. It's highly desirable if you're primarily a drop catcher, but it doesn't stand up to even casual scrutiny, as you've just pointed out.

What doesn't stand up to scrutiny is why all the arguments made about confusion / rebranding etc. now suddenly don't mater in light of the new release mechanism were trademark holders no longer get first shout.

Some might say it would be highly desirable for large portfolio holders to be able to double their premium inventory overnight if they so wished.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Even if you kept .co.uk forwarding forever... I think this plan fails on the issue that this is a clear revenue generation exercise from Nominet. The only way that gravy train continues is if another extension runs alongside .co.uk.

Personally I think its going to be pointless tabling any sort of suggestion that involves this. Its never going to happen - you would be better finding a 'least worst' solution that involves them running side by side, and push for that instead. Nominet staff bonuses need to be paid.

 

[GreyWing]

Even if you kept .co.uk forwarding forever... I think this plan fails on the issue that this is a clear revenue generation exercise from Nominet. The only way that gravy train continues is if another extension runs alongside .co.uk.

Personally I think its going to be pointless tabling any sort of suggestion that involves this. Its never going to happen - you would be better finding a 'least worst' solution that involves them running side by side, and push for that instead. Nominet staff bonuses need to be paid.

We wouldn't table it to the board mate, we'd bypass them and go to members. Going to the board could have resulted in people like Jill Finney voting on it with her vast knowledge of domains, or Baroness Fritchie. To be fair to Thomas Vollrath who probably knows domains inside out, he wouldn't get a vote... but Jill would have.

We'd propose it at an EGM and members would vote for or against it.

 

[websaway]

Concentrating more on what will happen with future new registrations rather than everyone looking after their own current position ( which is understandable )

Post d day .uk
I will not register a co.uk without registering the equivalent .uk (probably have to go for the hyphen for both aswell to protect the position)
Additional costs for me but only the one site built.


If I just register the .uk or the co.uk then the very next day someone will register the one I have not got with a view to sell it to me at a future date and will park it listing it for sale, the more successful my site becomes the more the value of the alternative name rises.

Where are we going with this ?

 

[Retired_Member38]

How is a vote likely to turn out? How many people voting have clear conflicts of interest, i.e. being linked to domain registrars etc.