June 30th changes?

[Skinner]

Is the time delay limit based on names CURRENTLY ln your tag, or renewels/regs ?

I assumed it would be new regs and renewels ?

I think the Public Catchers and Prolific Dyson catchers are going to be able to clean up here and may get an advantage over even the fastest scripts as they can run the secondary time delayed dac (as a second catcher instance) meaning they can achieved many more checks per second can't they ?

Some high catchers should setup actual public registries, to booster this which is the solution isnt it?, I mean the solution to boosting your rate ?

Even if you do £5.88 registrations to suck the users in, the benefits way outweigh the losses.

I have worded this very badly as my heads in a mess from staying up all night buried in wordpress code, how messy is that code ?

 

[essexboy]

I don't keep many domains on my tag nor do I reg that many so how am I supposed to scan through my 3m+ list? It'll take about 2 years on my quota!

Looks like I won't be renewing my membership which is due in september!

 

[monaghan]

Yup... Has been raised several times here and also on nom-steer. Big portfolio owners / larger registrars will have a much larger quota for the delay-dac and will be able to use this to hoover up the middle ground names whilst everyone else is chasing the better names on the real-time DAC. The level playing field is now not quite as level!

The daft thing is that my delay-dac quota is small, but I could simply "buy" more quota by registering a lot of names this month or as you suggest by doing a simple loss leader.

 

[retired_member6]

I didnt think they were changing the minimum quota? I thought that was staying the same?

 

[retired_member12]

...The level playing field is now not quite as level!...

That's a matter of perspective. There never was a level playing field for the ordinary bloke in the street who isn't a member, but would like a nice domain name. :|

 

[monaghan]

I didnt think they were changing the minimum quota? I thought that was staying the same?

Suggest you take a read of Time delay DAC and Real time DAC and tweak your code

 

[monaghan]

That's a matter of perspective. There never was a level playing field for the ordinary bloke in the street who isn't a member, but would like a nice domain name. :|

Let's be honest it was never level for the bloke in the street as he only just went to PC World and bought a PC, others have been registering domains for many years (my 1st was in 1995). All the names the bloke in the street fancied were probably registered before he knew what the Internet was.

 

[retired_member6]

Real time is still for catching then and nothing has changed there. does that mean "not top names" could be loaded on a third and fourth connection for the time delay dac, freeing up quotas on the first and second real time dac? Although 33,000 aint a lot, would be more but I keep selling my rolling stock and sold 500+ from stocksheet since Christmas.

 

[retired_member6]

Let's be honest it was never level for the bloke in the street as he only just went to PC World and bought a PC, others have been registering domains for many years (my 1st was in 1995). All the names the bloke in the street fancied were probably registered before he knew what the Internet was.

It wouldve helped if the teachers taught us about the internet, I still think back and wonder if anyone actually did. not that I paid much attention anyway having been expelled twice in those years. I was more of an outside person than sit inside all day. Comes down to a mixture of knowledge and luck and who you know, as with most things.

 

[retired_member12]

Let's be honest it was never level for the bloke in the street as he only just went to PC World and bought a PC, others have been registering domains for many years (my 1st was in 1995). All the names the bloke in the street fancied were probably registered before he knew what the Internet was.

Actually, I was referring to dropping domain names rather than what a noob might stumble upon as unregistered.

The lack of a level playing field stems from the fact for about 10-12 years that I've watched domains drop, almost every single one caught has been by a member of Nominet UK using the advantages that their membership brings. And Nominet haven't done a single thing about that!

 

[rob]

Actually, I was referring to dropping domain names rather than what a noob might stumble upon as unregistered.

The lack of a level playing field stems from the fact for about 10-12 years that I've watched domains drop, almost every single one caught has been by a member of Nominet UK using the advantages that their membership brings. And Nominet haven't done a single thing about that!

Excellent post.

The issue coming up is the rules could be changing. People have been inside nominets rules before, but may find themselves outside.

 

[retired_member6]

Actually, I was referring to dropping domain names rather than what a noob might stumble upon as unregistered.

The lack of a level playing field stems from the fact for about 10-12 years that I've watched domains drop, almost every single one caught has been by a member of Nominet UK using the advantages that their membership brings. And Nominet haven't done a single thing about that!

Either way nominet are going to put a price on the dac access for the extra load and do refererence checks for an account, call it what you want, subscription or membership, yes maybe false creating a membership base for director nominees but better those interested in the company gain from voting and visa versa, if they're worth voting for, they're not if they don't listen to the pab.

 

[monaghan]

Actually, I was referring to dropping domain names rather than what a noob might stumble upon as unregistered.

The lack of a level playing field stems from the fact for about 10-12 years that I've watched domains drop, almost every single one caught has been by a member of Nominet UK using the advantages that their membership brings. And Nominet haven't done a single thing about that!

How would you make the playing field level?

If you had a waiting list then those who knew about the waiting list would be at the top of the list and "the bloke in the street" would still not get a look in.

Nominet has always been first come, first served except in the case where a DRS is justified for abusive registrations.

I can't see how you can make a fair system with such a limited supply of goods. I'd like alex.co.uk but another Alex has this and I suspect there are many hundreds if not thousands of other Alex's who would also this name.

Most things in life are first come first served.

If I turn up at the supermarket 10 mins before it closes would it be reasonable to expect that they still had a good selection of fresh bread?

I'd have liked to see Led Zep the other year but there were thousands of others in the queue - were the promoters wrong for their ticket allocation?

You seem to want the benefits of Nominet membership without having the costs, membership is not restricted and people are free to join. I'd not expect the AA to come and fix my car as I don't have AA membership, if I was an AA member I'd not expect my membership fees to be spent on recovering a non-member's car.

 

[retired_member12]

How would you make the playing field level?

If you had a waiting list then those who knew about the waiting list would be at the top of the list and "the bloke in the street" would still not get a look in.

Nominet has always been first come, first served except in the case where a DRS is justified for abusive registrations.

I can't see how you can make a fair system with such a limited supply of goods. I'd like alex.co.uk but another Alex has this and I suspect there are many hundreds if not thousands of other Alex's who would also this name.

Most things in life are first come first served.

If I turn up at the supermarket 10 mins before it closes would it be reasonable to expect that they still had a good selection of fresh bread?

I'd have liked to see Led Zep the other year but there were thousands of others in the queue - were the promoters wrong for their ticket allocation?

You seem to want the benefits of Nominet membership without having the costs, membership is not restricted and people are free to join. I'd not expect the AA to come and fix my car as I don't have AA membership, if I was an AA member I'd not expect my membership fees to be spent on recovering a non-member's car.

You're completely missing the point. Being a member of Nominet should not give an advantage or benefits to catching domain names, and people shouldn't have to become a member to get such a benefit either.
'Advantages of membership' and 'first come, first served' don't go in the same sentence! To paraphrase something you have just said:

Nominet has always been first come, first served except in the case where a DRS is justified for abusive registrations...

...or if you become a member chasing dropping domain names!

You can flavour it up all you want Alex, the fact is this, if anyone saw a great name, and worked out it might soon be available, they wouldn't stand a chance of getting it if a Nominet member were after it too. Fact!

For years, Nominet sat on their hands over this, turned a blind eye and did nothing about it because it wasn't percieved as a problem. Now, when they feel that their hands are being bitten off under the table by that same small group of members who upset their apple cart last year, it seems Nominet are finally pulling their fingers out of their butts and doing something about it. I'm not advocating stopping it, but it's Nominet's job to facilitate an acceptable solution for non-members too. They need to do so bearing in mind that a percentage of those members have since established their livelyhoods in the 'drop-business'.

It's utter bullshit for any intelligent person to say that Nominet's entire registration system is based on 'first come, first served'. That only applies to new registrations. The cream of dropped names has been an entirely different matter, and I have monitored this for years. Take it from me, there are few non-members who have caught anything of note. And Nominet know this it true!

 

[monaghan]

I don't disagree with you, the DAC access is a member "perk". However, many "back order" services are available and a number of registrars who "Joe Public" may visit to register a domain offer "back order" services. Nominet membership is not expensive especially if you are wanting a "premium" domain name.

My post was to ask the question was how do you make it fair?

Question... Why shouldn't those who pay their membership fee get better tools than those who choose to use a public interface of another member? If I wanted to sell .com's and have direct access to the register I'd need to stump up the ICANN fees or should I simply be able to access ALL domain registers and pick and choose what I want.

The same issues also apply to many other things like vanity phone numbers & car registration plates.

It may well be unfair, but I can't see any way of making it fair. Those who take the time to research will always be 1 step ahead of those who don't and will simply be the 1st in the next queue system created. If you pull names and auction them it will prevent the catchers from making the profit but will still keep the domain away from Joe Public as I suspect the auction cost will rapidly rise above reg fee.

I think it is unfair that I've been beaten to every LLL.co.uk I've tried to catch and I suspect that there are many others with DAC access who'd love to catch a LLL.

I had a non-technical friend ask about registering one.co.uk a few years back in all expectation of me raising the invoice and creating the site there and then. The expectation of Joe Public and reality are far apart.

 

[retired_member12]

I don't disagree with your points, but how to make it fair is really not a question than any of us should answer. That's Nominet's job, don't you think? If they're not up to it, get the fuck rid of the top brass and put people in who are capable of driving it through.

However, as a starting point, it would be nice if Nominet promoted approved members who had invested the time and money in proven systems to provide such services. In doing so, there would need to be checks & balances, but those members could compete amongst themselves, subject to agreed overview procedures, and could chose their own hosting arrangements away from Nominet, which retains a competitive element.

But, absolutely no self catching for any of those involved. Everything must be seen to be clean and above board.

Dropcatching at the moment was not envisaged when Nominet was started, and the way it has evolved, unchecked and not addressed, is a problem you can lay entirely at Nominet's door for doing bugger all about it. The members who have joined simply to jump on the bandwagon haven't done anything wrong, and it is a sad reflection of both Bob Garratt's review and worse the Digital Britain report that the reader is left feeling that catchers are in the wrong!

 

[retired_member6]

The only way you make it level is;

a) seperate membership from subscription
b) provide general catch script supplied by nominet, *maybe allow personal scripts but maybe not, all scripts run on nom servers, they charge a fee
c) charge accessable fees for joe public
d) make board accountable to pab

I don't need a whole booklet review to see the above, the above is easy to implement.

PS: I dare say if I was standing for election, I'd be voted in by the majority with that as my aim.

depends if the nominet board are capitalists or communists or inbetween, as to their offerings.

 

[monaghan]

But, absolutely no self catching for any of those involved. Everything must be seen to be clean and above board.

Why? If I want a name, then why shouldn't I purchase it from my company?

 

[retired_member12]

Why? If I want a name, then why shouldn't I purchase it from my company?

You can't promote approved Nominet members to provide a dropcatching service, and also allow those same members to scoop off the cream!

You do realise that the alternative could well be external third parties doing this, don't you? To quote from the Digital Britain report:

...the Government has decided that on a precautionary basis it will seek reserve powers in any appropriate forthcoming legislation to regulate against the risk that the entry into the sector of a number of new, and as yet unidentified, players will mean we need a basis for industry cooperation. These powers may, for example, enable the Government to direct Ofcom to regulate the distribution of domain names in the UK, possibly by setting conditions and establishing a code of practice to which the industry would be required to conform.

What I'm suggesting at least ensures that those members who evening meal tonight depends on where we are today, are given a fair crack of the whip.

 

[retired_member6]

You can't promote approved Nominet members to provide a dropcatching service, and also allow those same members to scoop off the cream!

You do realise that the alternative could well be external third parties doing this, don't you? To quote from the Digital Britain report:


What I'm suggesting at least ensures that those members who evening meal tonight depends on where we are today, are given a fair crack of the whip.

Why external, nominet can devise a standard script and host it.