Offers HolyBible

[aZooZa]

£600 here.

 

[Nigel]

£625 here

Any chance of an end time on this? Thanks

 

[jasman]

It would be nice if someone would publish a bible that has not been tampered with in the translation. The King James one and others I have seen have deliberate mistranslations of the old testament books to support church dogma.

For example in Genesis, the Hebrew word 'Elohim' is generally translated as 'God' (e.g. the opening sentence Beraisheeth bara Elohim is generally translated as 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth') however the word Elohim is in fact plural - 'gods'. This is not surprising because Genesis was written 1400 years before the Chritian era when Polytheism was common, but the point is this gives a totally different meaning to that which most Christian churches teach, yet that is what is actually written in the Bible.

There are various other Hebrew words as well which all get translated as 'God' because the church wanted people to follow a monotheistic religion, and we have other characters such as Lucufer and Satan who also end up being portrayed as one being, but that is not what is written in the Book.

Surely people should have the chance to absorb the wisdom in the Book without mistranslations by authorities with a dogmatic agenda. I would love to see a translation which left all proper nouns in the original Hebrew - i.e. a faithful translation which allows the reader to make up his own mind about the meaning of the text rather than having one meaning decided by others force-fed to him.

 

[StudioVision]

Thanks guys, i'll end this at 20:00 GMT Tomorrow, Tuesday 12th October 2010. 10 minute anti-sniping rule applies

Cheers,

Craig

 

[GreyWing]

Jasman, the moral of the whole bible and the political slant on it is learnt within a few sentences of the whole bible starting. Eve was never the first women, she was Adam's second wife.

Ever since those few lines, the bible was written to support certain people's politics.

 

[ELIFE-MZ]

For example in Genesis, the Hebrew word 'Elohim' is generally translated as 'God' (e.g. the opening sentence Beraisheeth bara Elohim is generally translated as 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth') however the word Elohim is in fact plural - 'gods'.

I am not an expert in this field at all but I have read/seen videos where this was discussed. In Hebrew, arabic and some other eastern languages - plural also is a mark of respect (as in royal we).

Sorry if I am totally barking up the wrong tree as I am sure there are more learned members here.

 

[aZooZa]

Jasman, the moral of the whole bible and the political slant on it is learnt within a few sentences of the whole bible starting. Eve was never the first women, she was Adam's second wife.

Ever since those few lines, the bible was written to support certain people's politics.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Start another thread if a religious rant is wanted.

 

[GreyWing]

Start another thread if a religious rant is wanted.

Dale just trying to get you a cheaper price, lol

 

[jasman]

Not after a rant but since we were talking about putting the Bible text on the domain, I just wanted to add my thoughts on what I would like to see, namely proper nouns left in Hebrew. I don't imagine that would be an especially quick task though!

 

[JMOT]

Surely an amazon feed split by DVD, hardback, pocket etcetc more viable use or would that be deemed offensive???

 

[aZooZa]

Dale just trying to get you a cheaper price, lol

Graeme - I meant that I agree with you completely and I wouldn't like to see this thread or any thread on here get into the ins and outs of Biblical texts etc. Your take on it is the same as mine and I think the others that are indulging in prosaic nuances should start a new thread so I can ignore it

 

[GreyWing]

Graeme - I meant that I agree with you completely and I wouldn't like to see this thread or any thread on here get into the ins and outs of Biblical texts etc. Your take on it is the same as mine and I think the others that are indulging in prosaic nuances should start a new thread so I can ignore it

Yep no probs Dale I knew what you were saying, spent long enough talking to you now to know you thoughts on a few things.

 

[StudioVision]

Ends tonight at 20:00 GMT Acorn time, 10 minute anti-sniping rule applies

Nigel is the current highest bidder @ £625

Cheers,

Craig

 

[Nigel]

Hope to put this domain to good use in the future.

Just wanted to answer Jason's comments about apparent inaccuracies in translation and in particular the word Elohim. I know some don't like Bible discussions on here but this thread is the 'HolyBible' thread and quite a lot have made comments and had digs at the Bible so I believe I'm entitled to some response.

It is true Jason that Elohim is a masculine plural term for God. Yet in Deuteronomy 6:4 the Jewish nation were told 'Hear, O Israel. The LORD our God, the LORD is one!'.

To some this may appear a contradiction i.e. how can God be one and also masculine plural but when Jesus arrived it wasn't hard for many to see He fulfilled the hundreds of prophecies about Him and perfectly solved that apparent contradiction. Scripture shows us that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons but all are God, all have the same qualities but different roles. Jesus told His disciples that when they looked at Him they were seeing the Father (John 14:9). So God is one but consists of three persons - all in complete harmony and nature. It also helps us understand that amazing statement in Genesis 1:26 'Let Us make man in Our image' - this is the Father and the Son discussing creation. We know that the 'Lord God' who walked in the garden of Eden - Genesis 3 verse 8 - cannot have been the Father for Jesus told us that God (i.e. the Father) is Spirit and no person has ever seen Him (John 6:46) so this was the Son who created all things (John 1:3) who was walking in His garden.

There is so much information I could give but perhaps it should continue by PM. Hope this helps.

 

[GreyWing]

Nice buy Nigel, from a business point of view it's a pretty good investment.

As for taking the bible literally, it can't be done. I went to catholic school and listening to some of the teachers, the more they tried to justify it the more it put the rest of us off.

It seemed that the more you question the bible, the more they thought we were questioning God himself. Or you question people like the Pope on his behaviour over child abuse, then it's equal to questioning the existance of God. In some people's eyes it's impossible to seperate the questioning of the two, that's when you get people hiding their actions behind God and you end up with straw man arguments. "I'm doing God's work, if you question what I'm doing then you are questioning God's will".

Then we end up with bloody suicide bombers, or George Bush claiming God told him to invade Iraq, Jews claiming a 3000 year old book told them to evict Palestinians.

But saying that, it's through going to catholic school that I learnt to question these people, Derren Brown tells a similar story. So question is would I send my kids to catholic school?? Bizarrely, I probably would yes.

My rant over, not against the thing, just the people who interpret it literally instead of thinking for themselves and those people scare the life out of me.

 

[Paullas]

maybe ill try and sell baptist.co.uk again

 

[GreyWing]

maybe ill try and sell baptist.co.uk again

thought you'd offloaded that last year Paul, got a couple of decent offers, or a couple of pre bids on Domainlore if I remember correctly.

 

[Nigel]

Nice buy Nigel, from a business point of view it's a pretty good investment.

As for taking the bible literally, it can't be done. I went to catholic school and listening to some of the teachers, the more they tried to justify it the more it put the rest of us off.

It seemed that the more you question the bible, the more they thought we were questioning God himself. Or you question people like the Pope on his behaviour over child abuse, then it's equal to questioning the existance of God. In some people's eyes it's impossible to seperate the questioning of the two, that's when you get people hiding their actions behind God and you end up with straw man arguments. "I'm doing God's work, if you question what I'm doing then you are questioning God's will".

Then we end up with bloody suicide bombers, or George Bush claiming God told him to invade Iraq, Jews claiming a 3000 year old book told them to evict Palestinians.

But saying that, it's through going to catholic school that I learnt to question these people, Derren Brown tells a similar story. So question is would I send my kids to catholic school?? Bizarrely, I probably would yes.

My rant over, not against the thing, just the people who interpret it literally instead of thinking for themselves and those people scare the life out of me.

Thanks Graeme - although I haven't bought this one from a business point of view. I've got quite a few of these Christian domains and have never looked to sell any.

Sorry to hear about your frustration at trying to understand the Bible at a catholic school. But the catholic church is so far removed from the Gospel that Jesus taught that you'll never get the answers there. Most of their major doctrines are not in the Bible - in fact most are directly opposed to the Bible's teachings (i.e. praying to Mary and the Saints, transubstantiation i.e. saying the wafer and wine are really turned into Jesus's body and blood and that the Priest's role in offering this sacrifice is ongoing (wheras Jesus said His sacrifice was sufficient and final), relics, images, elevation of Mary to CoRedemtrix, Pope's title of Pontifex Maximus (a pagan title held by the Caesers inc Nero and taken by the Pope in 4th century the list goes on and on), purgatory, salvation by works (not simple faith in Christ), immaculate conception, infallibility of the Pope - the list goes on and on. It's a false church peddling a great deception (but one that's not that hard to see). I've a great book 'Far from Rome - Near to God' the stories of 50 ex Roman Catholic priests and I'd be pleased to send it to you and you can keep it if you want - just PM.

 

[Paullas]

thought you'd offloaded that last year Paul, got a couple of decent offers, or a couple of pre bids on Domainlore if I remember correctly.

no, only offers i got was £20 ones from AD members

 

[jasman]

Well I guess since the domain is now sold (and congratulations to you Nigel, what a bargain price!), the discussion can now continue without risk of annoying those who only wished to bid without any religious discussion.

It is true Jason that Elohim is a masculine plural term for God. Yet in Deuteronomy 6:4 the Jewish nation were told 'Hear, O Israel. The LORD our God, the LORD is one!'.

Elohim is actually masculine and feminine as well as being plural. Some have translated it as 'gods and godesses', others as 'god and godess' (i.e. one of each), however I believe the great celestial beings have a dual male and female nature as we humans do so the distinction is unimportant. Yoga and its Western counterpart alchemy are largely concerned with balancing the male and female aspects of our being.

But your quote again emphasises my point as it is again taken from a second-hand TRANSLATION, and in my opinion from an elite group with an agenda.

Let us consider the original Hebrew of Deuteronomy 6:4:

Shema Yisrael YHWH Eloheinu YHWH Ehad

Hear, O Israel, YHWH (is) our god, YHWH is one

Elohim means 'gods', the plural formation of 'eloah' which means 'god' but can also mean 'godess'. The '-nu' or '-enu' suffix means 'our'. Thus Eloheinu means 'our god'.
This does not say that the Elohim are one. It says that YHWH who is 'our eloah'/ our god, is one.

(In Bibles, YHWH or YHVH is often translated variously as Yahweh or Jehoveh - since w and v are interchangeable, as are j and y - and often as 'the Lord' because in Judaism YHWH is replaced with Adonai which means 'Lord', as Jews consider the true name YHWH ineffable and unpronounceable.)

But of course if you are going from an English translation, you would not see any of this. You would be told what to think by the translator and be denied the right to come to your own conclusion about the meaning. Considering the history of the Christian churches, with all the millions who were murdered, tortured and burnt at the stake during the inquisition, the crusades etc can we trust the authorities who oversaw this bloodshed and who also oversaw the translation to have done a faithful job? They don't sound very reputable to me! They sound like the warmongerers in the world today, clearly on the wrong side when it comes to spiritual matters. So I'd rather absorb the wisdom within the ancient scriptures, including the Bible, but have nothing to do with these kind of people.

There is also something else which gets lost in all translations from Hebrew to other langauges which really is fundamental to the original. Each letter in Hebrew has a numerical value and the words therefore equate to numerical values too - this is known as gematria. Where two words have the same numerical value they are considered specially related. Dod meaning love has a value of 14. Zahav meaning gold, a symbol of spiritual attainment also has a value of 14. Other connections exist too. The Hebrew word for father has a value of 3. Mother has a value of 41. Child is 44, the combination of both. The cryptic reference to the Number of the Beast in Revelation is a direct prompt to use gematria to unfathom the hidden meaning.

Other hidden messages exist within the Bible too. Exodus Ch 14 vs 19, 20 and 21 each contain 72 letters. When these verses are written on top of each other so they appear as 72 3-character columns, they give the 72 secret names of God known as the Shemhamphorasch.

This use of language laced with hidden messages and meanings is called in Esoteric circles the Green Language or the Language of the Birds and for thousands of years has been used by initiates to communicate esoteric practices and knowledge to other initiates while consealing it from the mundane populace. The Torah and the Bible are repleat with such hidden language. Nostrodamus used it. The alchemists (like Isaac Newton who translated the Bible from Hebrew himself to get to the truth) used it heavily in their seemingly incomprehensible texts (which I might add were nothing to do with converting material lead into gold).

If you become an initiate in one of the spiritual orders, the esoteric meanings will at some stage be revealed to you. But of course much of this is lost when it becomes translated into other languages and much can be deliberately obfuscated if the translator so wishes.

Every religion has two groups, the masses and the inner cabal who are initiated into the esoteric knowledge and who are members of secret orders. The masses are encouraged by the authority figures in the cabal to take the scriptures as literal and to steer clear of occult practices, astrology and the like. There are two reasons for this. Firstly ignorant, unprepared people can cause harm to themselves and others if availing themselves of and misusing the esoteric knowledge. Secondly some members of the elite in the cabal wish to keep the esoteric techniques which dramatically increase intelligence, health, willpower and can give various occult abilities, to themselves and prevent others so they have a massive advantage over everyone else. If you want to know more about these esoteric practices, the yoga community is pretty open about it since true Spiritual masters live a humble life and want to share their wisdom to uplift others. When you see religious leaders adorned in gold sat on thrones in palaces alarm bells should ring!

In the Christian religion there are many orders teaching esoteric knowledge to their members who are in senior clergy positions in Catholic and Protestant churches including the Jesuits, Rosicrucians, Freemasons etc. This two-group system has been going on in every religion since time immemorial. We also know from the Bible that the wise men were astrologers and practiced rituals. There are many references indicating specific meditation practices too such as turning a staff into a snake that spiritual adepts such as Moses were practicing - this is a Kundalini Yoga technique using the same cryptic terminology. (In Yoga and other Esoteric traditions, a man's spine is referred to as his staff, and the advanced practices involve awakening a massive charge of energy called the Kundalini located at the base of the spine, and moving it up the spine and into the brain either to the top of the head or the 3rd eye area. This charge of energy resembles a serpent as it slides up and down the spine and is usually visualised in the form of a serpent in meditation. The practice unblocks energy centres known as chakras within the spine and awakens the latent spiritual genius within. Both the caduceus symbol, adopted by the British Medical Association, and the Uraeus found on Egyptian statues and masks, depict the serpent on the staff and in the 3rd eye area respectively).

Should the Bible be taken literally? Not everything in it should. There are many historical references in it but many instances of analogy. Analogic was much more common in Biblical times than logic which was not developed much prior to Aristotle, and it is common in other spiritual texts such as those in Hinduism and Buddhism. Jesus himself often spoke in parables and analogies. Spiritual masters of all traditions today also use analogies to explain Spiritual truths because things are mirrored on different levels. The other Spiritual masters who preceed Jesus clearly used analogic, metaphors and parables as well, and of course the advanced practices which could pose a danger to the uninitiated had to be consealed. So we can't take the whole thing literally. But as a person evolves spiritually and becomes more aware of the deeper aspects of his being - the astral body, the chakras etc - and as he gains more esoteric knowlege and sees parallels between scriptures from different cultures, it is possible to spot the esoteric meanings among the historical narratives in the scriptures.