EU prior rights

[grandin]

for you beasty

Beasty you seem to be switched on with this ip law (which I am not....all i do is follow common sense).

So Beasty.....if you read through the Nominet Dispute Resolution Policy it states

'3. Evidence of Abusive Registration

a. A non-exhaustive list of factors which may be evidence that the Domain Name is an Abusive Registration is as follows:'

ie. 3a of the policy uses the word may! So if the average domain name owner is not to rely on what is written in the policy then what has he got to rely on? Does he have to read through all the previous drs cases to find out that 3aia of the policy was incorrectly stated? if so then the contract is over 3 million words long.....if the contract is over 3 million words long do you think that person could claim that the Nominet contract as an unfair contract?

Hypothetical of course
Lee

 

[Jac]

I seek:
a) Prices to stay the same, decrease or only marginally increase over the longer term for renewals (more important than initial purchase price)

b) Security that whatever domains I hold now I won't be forced to protect or lose from some domain related / Nominet issue.
I do accept passing off as valid reason to be asked to change useage of the domain

c) the ability to change registrants more easily

d) probably lots of other things but this a quick checklist.

I see government control as an expensive option.
I see a Nominet without any significant member influence a dangerous and unpredictable beast and needs some sort of predictability.

I agree with your thinking on a) and there's no reason I can see that this will not be the case. On b}... nobody can give a guarantee of a domain name world free from disputes and it isn't in Nominet's or the Court's prerogative to give it. Disputes are caused by people with opposing notions. On c)... I'd agree; with the proviso that Nominet needs to establish that it is actually the legal registrant asking for the transfer and a legitimate party seeking it. I also agree with your government control comment but I don't just see it as an expensive option, I see it as an accident waiting to happen. (I cite the Home Office and NHS management or mismanagement.)

I'm sorry but the vociferous PAB representatives on this board seem only to try to obfuscate any issues raised, and I'd rather they either accept some of the perfectly reasonable views and put them to Nominet on our behalf or not represent us at all.

Now you've lost me because I may be vociferous, and I may be a PAB representative, but when faced with cynicism at every standpoint, a person tends to get a tad exasperated. I just happen to be one of those guys who shows it! Whatever I say, someone says the opposite with cavalier disregard for trying to make the system that exists better. All I hear is 'the system doesn't work so let's change the system', when it makes no sense whatsoever to take 10 years of experience and expertise, and chuck it aside in preference for a government agency system that may well be worse than what now exists.

You tell me I obfuscate issues? Well, I have already raised all of the issues you mention with Nominet (plus all the issues Beasty, Sneezy and Lee Grandin mention) over a period of 7 years, and everytime I raise an old issue (because I believe everything deserves a revisit) I come up against criticism from the old boys in Nominet who don't believe what I believe; that the only thing constant is change. But when olebean talks like I'm his servant, and you don't give me the consideration you want for yourself, then forgive me all over a Monday evening, but my Irishness gets up. I believe in democracy, therefore I am a democrat, but that doesn't stretch to my being anybody's servant or whipping boy... not even if you pay me! :mrgreen:

I'm happy to represent views in any small way I can (I keep saying I agree with many of them) but all of the stuff I have been accused of on this board (including being vociferous and a bore) could so easily be thrown back at the accuser.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[Beasty]

I see government control as an expensive option.
I see a Nominet without any significant member influence a dangerous and unpredictable beast and needs some sort of predictability.

Aqls - why do you think that government=expense? Companies House prices have fallen since it became an executive agency of government - as it is obliged to be cost neutral and not charge above cost price for services. TM registration is also excellent value for money. They don't pay their top two execs over £400K and they don't make over £1 million a year in profit.

I agree with you that (if it is to retain control of .uk) Nominet needs a wider membership base - with less power in the hands of the few and also with a much lower threshold for entry.

 

[Jac]

Tell you what guys......

Before I head off home for the day, is anybody up for me arranging a meeting with myself and the Executive and Management team at Nominet Oxford? You would have a chance to put your questions and grievances direct to Nominet. It may help clarify some of the issues you have raised and hopefully create at least an understanding of the difficulties involved in running the UK registry.

If I get enough people interested, I'll speak to Nominet and come back with a couple or three alternate dates.

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

 

[olebean]

Jac

In the basics of reality, doing the work of another makes you that animal....

A while ago you suggested I attempt to be voted onto the PAB, I reiterate I have not plans to engage on that course of action nor should there be if we as aqls said there is appropriate representation....

It seems quite evident there is a lack of faith, a number of individuals on this forum need convincing you are that person, who will do the work for others and in a way that is representative of their / others views...

Oh, Yes Jac I maybe interested


Gand

I am not sure if IP law is what you are looking for

 

[Jac]

Aqls - why do you think that government=expense? Companies House prices have fallen since it became an executive agency of government - as it is obliged to be cost neutral and not charge above cost price for services. TM registration is also excellent value for money. They don't pay their top two execs over £400K and they don't make over £1 million a year in profit.

Companies House handle roughtly 2.2 million registrations with a staff of over 1,000. Nominet handles 5 million registrations with a staff of 130.

Nobody gets paid 400k a year at Nominet, this is a misrepresentation of the facts. The figure you refer to (if I remember correctly) is from the last published accounts (2004) and was an exceptional year. (Eg: It was the year the original chairman resigned for instance.) I also think the figure was accumulative but I can't be assed checking again. You've got all the wrong answers, you check!

Also, I have a good friend who is a Trademark Attorney. His average fee for registering a trademark is £900. I would agree he is worth every penny for what he does, but I don't know if it equates to excellent value for money. I suppose, it's all relative.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[Jac]

In the basics of reality, doing the work of another makes you that animal....

A while ago you suggested I attempt to be voted onto the PAB, I reiterate I have not plans to engage on that course of action nor should there be if we as aqls said there is appropriate representation....

It seems quite evident there is a lack of faith, a number of individuals on this forum need convincing you are that person, who will do the work for others and in a way that is representative of their / others views...

Oh, Yes Jac I maybe interested

olebean, all you need is a member to sponsor you and one to second you. I'll happily sponsor you and although I can't speak directly for her, I'm sure Hazel will second (or vice versa). May I suggest you contact Richard Martin who attended his first PAB meeting last month, I'm sure he will be happy to give his opinion on the PAB as a concept. Mind you, it may be early days yet, but there's no harm asking him (I believe he is a domainer and someone you may relate to better).

Incidentally, lack of faith is a double-edged sword, and I am too long in the tooth not to understand there are some people in this world you will never convince, no matter what you say or do. C'est la vie.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[grandin]

jac ask him

j wrote 'I have a good friend who is a Trademark Attorney. His average fee for registering a trademark is £900.'

Ask him.......can any person or company have a prior right to a generic word represented as a domain name...when a domain name represents a WHOLE trading platform??

Don't you have a Trade Mark Attorney on Nominets PAB?

Does the labour party have a prior right in the name labour? if so what happens to all those pregnant women who seek out labour advice!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior rights in generic words.........maybe prior to law

 

[Jac]

j wrote 'I have a good friend who is a Trademark Attorney. His average fee for registering a trademark is £900.'

Ask him.......can any person or company have a prior right to a generic word represented as a domain name...when a domain name represents a WHOLE trading platform??

Don't you have a Trade Mark Attorney on Nominets PAB?

Does the labour party have a prior right in the name labour? if so what happens to all those pregnant women who seek out labour advice!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior rights in generic words.........maybe prior to law

Lee

I will ask the TM Attorney on the PAB who is incidentally, now the new PAB Chair.

However, in my very humble opinion, you tend to oversimplify these questions which I find surprising as I consider you an obviously astute businessman. However, I will seek his opinion and get back to you.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[olebean]

olebean, all you need is a member to sponsor you and one to second you. I'll happily sponsor you and although I can't speak directly for her, I'm sure Hazel will second (or vice versa). May I suggest you contact Richard Martin who attended his first PAB meeting last month, I'm sure he will be happy to give his opinion on the PAB as a concept. Mind you, it may be early days yet, but there's no harm asking him (I believe he is a domainer and someone you may relate to better).

Incidentally, lack of faith is a double-edged sword, and I am too long in the tooth not to understand there are some people in this world you will never convince, no matter what you say or do. C'est la vie.

Regards
James Conaghan

Should I take it that the invitation was a closed invitation?

 

[grandin]

ok

clearly things are not clear and whilst it may appear to be over simplified...i only have got involved in this because morally its all wrong...so i will gladly accept an invitation to discuss the issues at Nominet.

A trade Mark attorney is best equipped to deal with the drs

Lee

 

[olebean]

Beasty

For the record i believe jac is right

in 2004 the highest paid director was 257 and the cumlative salaries to the directors was 451

 

[aqls]

Aqls - why do you think that government=expense? Companies House prices have fallen since it became an executive agency of government - as it is obliged to be cost neutral and not charge above cost price for services. TM registration is also excellent value for money. They don't pay their top two execs over £400K and they don't make over £1 million a year in profit.

I agree with you that (if it is to retain control of .uk) Nominet needs a wider membership base - with less power in the hands of the few and also with a much lower threshold for entry.

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/productPriceListCompare.shtml

Job creation scheme. Political plaything. Tax revenue source.

Bloody expensive and full of unnecessary admin.

Out of date IT.

Nominet shines in solid gold in comparison, with added platinum bits.

BTW I don't care how much Nominet staff earn provided they keep my objectives in hand.

-aqls-

 

[sneezycheese]

Before I head off home for the day, is anybody up for me arranging a meeting with myself and the Executive and Management team at Nominet Oxford? You would have a chance to put your questions and grievances direct to Nominet. It may help clarify some of the issues you have raised and hopefully create at least an understanding of the difficulties involved in running the UK registry.

If I get enough people interested, I'll speak to Nominet and come back with a couple or three alternate dates.

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]

...OK, if the invite is available, there's mileage in attending and as long as we're all in agreement to the notion, I'm quite willing to attend and contribute to the discussion.

 

[Beasty]

Companies House handle roughtly 2.2 million registrations with a staff of over 1,000. Nominet handles 5 million registrations with a staff of 130.

Nobody gets paid 400k a year at Nominet, this is a misrepresentation of the facts. The figure you refer to (if I remember correctly) is from the last published accounts (2004) and was an exceptional year. (Eg: It was the year the original chairman resigned for instance.) I also think the figure was accumulative but I can't be assed checking again. You've got all the wrong answers, you check!

Also, I have a good friend who is a Trademark Attorney. His average fee for registering a trademark is £900. I would agree he is worth every penny for what he does, but I don't know if it equates to excellent value for money. I suppose, it's all relative.

Regards
James Conaghan

JAC - Firstly, I readily accept your kind invitation to Oxford.

I said the TWO top execs get paid over £400K - a little over £250K for the Exec Chair and £150K for the Chief Exec. The Chair did leave during the year (the latest with published figures) and was paid something over £50K to go - so one assumes it was not voluntary. I don't know what the current Chair is paid - but looking at his CV my guess would be that (pro rata if he is part time) he is unlikely to be paid less than Dr Black. You are on the PAB - so doubtless you are in the know.

Companies House (and the Patent Office) are much bigger in terms of turnover and headcount. They undertake more complex tasks than maintaining a first-come-first-served database where the tag holders enter much of the data. Their highest paid execs are on a touch under £100K the last time I looked.

Will you please accept that Nominet is a profit making business? I agree it does not (and can not) directly distribute its profits - but that is not the same thing. A million plus a year on a ten million turn over - having taken out generous remuneration packages - is not too shabby!

 

[olebean]

JAC - Firstly, I readily accept your kind invitation to Oxford.

I said the TWO top execs get paid over £400K - a little over £250K for the Exec Chair and £150K for the Chief Exec. The Chair did leave during the year (the latest with published figures) and was paid something over £50K to go - so one assumes it was not voluntary. I don't know what the current Chair is paid - but looking at his CV my guess would be that (pro rata if he is part time) he is unlikely to be paid less than Dr Black. You are on the PAB - so doubtless you are in the know.

Companies House (and the Patent Office) are much bigger in terms of turnover and headcount. They undertake more complex tasks than maintaining a first-come-first-served database where the tag holders enter much of the data. Their highest paid execs are on a touch under £100K the last time I looked.

Will you please accept that Nominet is a profit making business? I agree it does not (and can not) directly distribute its profits - but that is not the same thing. A million plus a year on a ten million turn over - having taken out generous remuneration packages - is not too shabby!

10% is a pretty poor return for an "information technology services" company when registration is electronic

 

[Jac]

Should I take it that the invitation was a closed invitation?

Uh??

Whatever else is said, the invitation remains open on my side, but I need to know how many are likely to want to participate.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[olebean]

Uh??

Whatever else is said, the invitation remains open on my side, but I need to know how many are likely to want to participate.

Regards
James Conaghan

It think that is three so far

 

[Jac]

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/productPriceListCompare.shtml

Job creation scheme. Political plaything. Tax revenue source.

Bloody expensive and full of unnecessary admin.

Out of date IT.

Nominet shines in solid gold in comparison, with added platinum bits.

BTW I don't care how much Nominet staff earn provided they keep my objectives in hand.

After having a dig at you yesterday, I think it's only fair to say it's nice to see you have a keen sense of perspective.

Regards
James Conaghan

 

[Jac]

It think that is three so far

Seems like you, Lee Grandin, Beasty and Sneezy which makes four? So I'll talk to Nominet about times available and get back to you.

Regards
James Conaghan
[PAB Member]