Egm 2

[Hazel Pegg]

Basically it gives the board the chance to do anything they like "registry" wise. How much will it cost to set up things like ENUM? Where will the money come from? The Nominet cash pile that was promised to be returned to members? If Nominet makes another cash pile via ENUM what will it do with that one?

Also whos paying for the 3000 phone calls? How longs a piece of string?

When did anyone suggest that the 'Nominet cashpile' could be returned to members? It can't be under the current rules and it can't be under the proposed new rules. AFAIK Nominet has adequate cash reserves to bid for ENUM and if that isn't a possible due to the proposed changes being rejected at the EGM then the one thing that is certain is that those cash reserves will not be going into the pockets of the members of Nominet.

Hazel

 

[Whois-Search]

When did anyone suggest that the 'Nominet cashpile' could be returned to members? It can't be under the current rules and it can't be under the proposed new rules. AFAIK Nominet has adequate cash reserves to bid for ENUM and if that isn't a possible due to the proposed changes being rejected at the EGM then the one thing that is certain is that those cash reserves will not be going into the pockets of the members of Nominet.

Hazel

What did Bob Gilbert say at the AGM? Something along the lines of exploring ways to "share this with the members" or was it setting up a charity?

The fact is Nominet is not-for-profit and it has enough problems looking after domain names at the moment nevermind anything else.

 

[Hazel Pegg]

Amongst the small registrars and domainers I know, I would say that about 2/3 rds are voting no.

Then I'd request that you send them these comments that I made on nom-steer earlier today ....

> ENUM is an important bid. However at the end of the day
> Nominet (in some
> form) will always be there.

Are you sure about that? Think back 20-25 years and then look forward in your crystal ball to 25 years in the future. You may be right that Nominet and DNS as we know it will still be around. But consolidation happens in all industries (especially relatively new ones) so even if DNS as we know it is still knocking around in some shape or form 25 years down the line there is no guarantee that Nominet will be a part of administering it. And if the way that we communicate via whatever technology doesn't involve .uk then Nominet will cease to be a part of the system as currently its Memorandum constricts it to solely that and nothing else. I'd rather that a not-for-profit membership-led company such as Nominet runs whatever comes next.

I reluctantly opposed the changes proposed at EGM 1 because I felt that they went far too far and I did not like the way that every change was bundled together and so we had an all or nothing option. Not being able to accept a few things I felt that I had to reject the entire package. This time round it is different. The changes to the Memorandum have been modified as a result of feedback from members and stakeholders (I sometimes hate the terminology!) and the document presented allows Nominet to expand in the areas of provision of Registry & Consultancy services whilst restricting its potential expansion into other areas. An acceptable compromise to me.

When I opposed the proposals put forward at EGM 1 I did so in great detail clause by clause. I made a few howlers that I had to subsequently withdraw and apologise for but I looked at the paperwork in detail and made my case accordingly. I have also looked at the current proposals in detail and am happy to vote for them. Maybe those of you who have indicated that you will vote NO could explain to me exactly which clauses cause you concern and why?

Hazel

 

[Hazel Pegg]

What did Bob Gilbert say at the AGM? Something along the lines of exploring ways to "share this with the members" or was it setting up a charity?

Have you actually read the proposed changes presented to both EGM1 and EGM2?

There were clauses in the proposed new Articles presented at EGM1 that did appear to open up the possibility of sharing out the surplus cash reserves, not only with the members but also with the Board. There was some doubt as to whether or not this was 'dividends by the back door' - hence the comment made by Lesley Cowley as I recall (and not Bob Gilbert but I am not 100% certain) about seeking for a way to "share this with the members".

But that is by the by as no such ambiguity exists in the proposals being put forward at EGM2.

Hazel

 

[Whois-Search]

I seem to read everything Nominet these days.

The problem is Hazel we are voting now in 2006.

Now some people might be thinking about Nominet in 2031.....

However people become Nominet Members at the end of the day to make money.

So if your a large tag holder (register or domainer) you will want to protect what you have.

Some members would like to see the 'dividends by the back door' implemented.
Like reducing the price of registrations or cheaper membership fees.

Rather than spending it on things like ENUM which we can't really sell ???? Unless we are going to have a ENUM automaton, ENUM DRS, ENUM record checks - don't think you can do ENUM drop catching though!

 

[Hazel Pegg]

However people become Nominet Members at the end of the day to make money.

I'm sure that is correct in most cases. But some other people become Nominet members for other reasons. You are right in your supposition as far as I am concerned as my company originally became a Nominet member in order to qualify for reduced registration fees. A few years down the line I have reached the point where I value the almost unique status of Nominet so highly that I may well become a member as an individual in order to exert a tiny bit of influence on where the company goes next. I am also more sure than before that registration discounts should be linked to TAGs and not to membership status.

Some members would like to see the 'dividends by the back door' implemented.
Like reducing the price of registrations or cheaper membership fees.

It is my personal opinion that reducing the price of registrations would be a disaster. The previous reduction to a fiver opened up a market that has not been entirely beneficial to the end user (ordinary stakeholder).

Rather than spending it on things like ENUM which we can't really sell ???? Unless we are going to have a ENUM automaton, ENUM DRS, ENUM record checks.

If you see your membership of Nominet purely in terms of what you can sell then I think I'm having an instant reshift of opinion and now want to campaign for membership fees to be either so high as to be a deterrent to people like you or so low as to allow those with no interest in selling anything to be allowed to join the electorate.

Because I sure as Hell don't want a Nominet dominated by those only interested in what's in it for them!

Hazel

 

[Whois-Search]

Why would you spend:

£400 + VAT on becoming a Member.
£100 + VAT a year to renew your Membership.
£25 + VAT for a DAC.
£5 per domain name.
Thousands in development costs.

If you wasn't wanting to make the money back?

Unless your some non-for-profit activist doing it for the good for the UK internet?

What next get your ENUM registration £25 a pop? Nominet is going to sell them so why can't we?

 

[Hazel Pegg]

Why would you spend:

£400 + VAT on becoming a Member.
£100 + VAT a year to renew your Membership.
£25 + VAT for a DAC.
£5 per domain name.
Thousands in development costs.

If you wasn't wanting to make the money back?

Unless your some non-for-profit activist doing it for the good for the UK internet?

Your last question is where I am at - and madly enough my company agrees

But to take your questions in order ...

We - (and when I say 'we' I refer to the company that is the Nominet member on whose behalf/say-so I get to say my bit on nom-steer) - but to start again, we paid our £400 to join as a Nominet member 'cos a quick back of the envelope calculation indicated that it might be a good investment and we have continued to pay £100 p/a membership subs because it is still a good investment.

We have not registered for DAC as we have no need to do so.

Registration fees could quadruple and it wouldn't affect our business model.

We are a not-for-profit company and our development costs are in the hundreds and not the thousands. As our are profits some years !!!

And none of the above implies that I think that our wierd and whacky business model is the only one worth considering. Many of you guys will be interested in low registration prices, an effective DAC, a fair DRS, etc, etc. I don't have a problem with that and as a PAB member I try to take all points of view into account - not just those of my company.

What next get your ENUM registration £25 a pop? Nominet is going to sell them so why can't we?

I don't know if we will want an ENUM registration or not. But if we do I'd rather get it from Nominet than any other supplier.

Hazel

 

[sneezycheese]

The fact is Nominet is not-for-profit and it has enough problems looking after domain names at the moment nevermind anything else.

...And there within the truth can be found!

 

[sneezycheese]

It is my personal opinion that reducing the price of registrations would be a disaster. The previous reduction to a fiver opened up a market that has not been entirely beneficial to the end user (ordinary stakeholder).

...What are you saying Hazel? :???:

 

[Hazel Pegg]

...What are you saying Hazel? :???:

I'm saying that it opened up a market where loadsa fly by night companies suddenly started selling domains for next to nothing. It was a nightmare at the time but now appears to have settled down as it seems that only the competent remain in business and the mopping up process that inevitably followed the collapses of the rest is largely over.

Hazel

 

[sneezycheese]

I'm saying that it opened up a market where loadsa fly by night companies suddenly started selling domains for next to nothing. It was a nightmare at the time but now appears to have settled down as it seems that only the competent remain in business and the mopping up process that inevitably followed the collapses of the rest is largely over.

Hazel

...So how would a further registration fee reduction be a disaster?

 

[Whois-Search]

At the bottom of this forum page you have two affiliate banners. One for Schuld (fasthosts) and one for Pipex (123-reg).

Schuld and Pipex only recently took over the two registrars - why would they invest in such companies if they were not profitable? Also why are the banners here if we didn't click them? That google adsense banner must be $1 a click?

Both sell domain names for about £6 each. Even if registration fees were lowered to £4 a year they would still sell them for £6!

 

[Jay Daley]

Jay,

Thanks for the explanations.

I still think you need to be Clive Feather to work all this lot out!

Before the Nominet phone calls I was expecting around 9%-11% of members to vote again. The same number as the AGM.

Now it's likely to be a landslide "Yes" vote. Even if Pipex votes "No" again like at the last EGM.

If the results of the recent directors elections are anything to go by, even the smallest member can influence the outcome.

Don't forget that the allocation of votes means that 25% of the total votes are allocated on an equal basis. This works out at around 500 votes. So you can see that just 20 people with 1 domain can potentially have 1% of the vote, based on my previous figures. Not insignificant when the threshold is 90%.

 

[static]

I've received my call from Nominet.

They asked;

Had I received my voting paper?
Had I voted?
How had I voted?

This last question troubles me a little. I declined to say how I had voted. However, collecting such data through an ONGOING telemarketing 'campaign' WHILE the 'polling station' is still open is questionable. If members are indicating how they voted Nominet wil be able to see how the outcome of the vote is shaping up, and yet not all members may have yet voted or been telephoned. I think one can see the obvious possibility here.

 

[rob]

I've received my call from Nominet.

They asked;

Had I received my voting paper?
Had I voted?
How had I voted?

This last question troubles me a little.

agreed !

No reason to ask that at all if the only reason for the calls is to get people voting!

 

[tmsdomreg]

This last question troubles me a little. I declined to say how I had voted. However, collecting such data through an ONGOING telemarketing 'campaign' WHILE the 'polling station' is still open is questionable. If members are indicating how they voted Nominet wil be able to see how the outcome of the vote is shaping up, and yet not all members may have yet voted or been telephoned. I think one can see the obvious possibility here.

Isn't this called an "Exit" Poll ?

Peter

 

[static]

Isn't this called an "Exit" Poll ?

Peter

Not if you are ENTERING the polling station at the time the 'poll' is being taken. Normally canvassing for votes isn't allowed on an election day.

Does anyone have the electoral commission's telephone number to hand?

 

[tmsdomreg]

Not if you are ENTERING the polling station at the time the 'poll' is being taken. Normally canvassing for votes isn't allowed on an election day.

As I understand it Nominet are asking how they voted (Exit Poll) - and as (unlike a General Political Election) the voting isn't limited to a single day, they are perfectly (IMO) entitled to canvass.

Isn't this thread getting clogged up with Paranoia?

Does anyone have the electoral commission's telephone number to hand?

The Electoral Commission



Peter

 

[static]

As I understand it Nominet are asking how they voted (Exit Poll) - and as (unlike a General Political Election) the voting isn't limited to a single day, they are perfectly (IMO) entitled to canvass.

Isn't this thread getting clogged up with Paranoia?



The Electoral Commission



Peter

No paranoia here Peter, just wanting everything to be above board.