Domainlore blog

[Siusaidh]

My take when it comes to drop-catching is that it's a chancer's game. Most of us here are chancers and I agree with Posh Tiger that the chase is part of the enjoyment and you utilise whatever the opportunities are, so for example, I've had good dealing with Denys, and Rob, and the just cited melitaweb, and I have no quarrel. The game is here to be played.

What I take exception with is if the people who run the DNS don't stick to their own rules and policies. No accusations. I'm just saying that the UK's domains (for example) are hugely important to our economy, to our social system, to individuals, to communities. It's got to be run in the best interests of all these groups, and it's got to be run with fair access, and with policies which are not informally flexible (like letting big Registrars mass-register without registrant consent last June).

I like the chase, the hunt, the poacher's game etc as much as the next person. But I think auctions direct for dropping names is the fairest way to administer the DNS, and most certainly better than the system as it stands today. I just want fairness for the public. Let's face it, the UK's DNS does not exist for us, and a small band of domain hunters.

 

[timter51]

The vast majority of quality domains will still end up in the hands of the wealthy domain investors who will stockpile, just like what happens now. I'm struggling to see how auctions fixes anything. If you want totally fair than a lottery system is all I can think of.

 

[webber]

The vast majority of quality domains will still end up in the hands of the wealthy domain investors who will stockpile, just like what happens now.

Not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the earnings go to a charity for example.

If you want totally fair than a lottery system is all I can think of.

That will be a lot easier to abuse with fake accounts!

 

[timter51]

That will be a lot easier to abuse with fake accounts!

In this world of KYC, it really should not be difficult for Nominet to avoid that. If you want to take part in the lottery, verify yourself.

 

[webber]

In this world of KYC, it really should not be difficult for Nominet to avoid that.

And yet here we are in a thread discussing [potentially] fake tags...

 

[timter51]

And yet here we are in a thread discussing [potentially] fake tags...

Well yeah, I'm just saying that the only fair way is a legitimate lottery. The fact that it needs to be run properly is a given.

 

[Gill]

And yet here we are in a thread discussing [potentially] fake tags...

They’re not fake, they’re probably real people and okay you prove a link to two addresses but that link is purely circumstantial no matter how strong. People are gaming a broken system and as one devious underhanded member of this forum once advised, if you can’t beat them join them. I don’t blame Rob or his customers for this, I blame Nominet who have second rate systems and rules that are unenforceable.

I used to live in a village with a population of 900 and it turns out that so did someone called Antony Wright, who was also a Nominet member and drop catcher. He lived on the next street to me but I have never met him in my life so you need to be careful before jumping to conclusions

 

[webber]

Well yeah, I'm just saying that the only fair way is a legitimate lottery.

Fair doesn't mean equal prices, but equal opportunity to purchase

 

[WalkinDude]

Still not convinced theres a story here. Dropcatchers catch for themselves.

Inherent conflict of interest. No your dropcatcher isnt gonna for free grab that 100k domain you are after as opposed to keep it for themselves.

Lots of techno stuff. Nominet is useless as per. Grumble grumble grumble.

Same dynamics as politics in this country. Lots of moaning not enough enterprise or solutions.

Newbie domainers in particular shouldnt be put off. Acorn, Domainlore, Backorder are your salvation as a domainer not your enemy. Grow big enough and then compete with them.

 

[stitchbob]

I am also a user of Robs service, and can confirm that it still is not the case that he tells us what to chase in any way. What he does do is share the list of backorders he has - i.e. those which are guaranteed a quick sale if we catch them. Denys does exactly the same with the “advance bids on deleting domains” tab on his site.

 

[dropsnatcher]

for those on rob/stitchbob/3gmedia system without a profit share and having no luck registering names, make notes of your actual chasing times over a week and then cos you do not have access to log info on his system, ask nominet for them, you might find your dac is being used when you are not

 

[stitchbob]

You can check you quota usage easily on the DAC. I have a monitor tracking my usage and I’m quite happy that isn’t being used when I’m not chasing anything.

 

[stitchbob]

As somebody who has dealt with this, I can clarify:

* All domains caught through HC automatically go to auction, whether an existing backorder is in place or not.
* If there are no bids, the catcher keeps the domain at the reg fee, Rob takes no cut.
* If there are bids, the catcher has to bid the same as everybody else.
* The revenue share is identical regardless of who wins the auction.

Yes, that means that if I catch a domain I actually want, I get a share of the final price back. But I also used my quota to catch it in the first place, and I probably didn't want it to go to auction.

Nobody is going to prebid to set a reserve, because that would be pointless - if there are no bids, I get it for free anyway.

If I believe a domain is worth £500, then yes, I can bid that. If I'm wrong, I win the auction and Rob gets his cut. I now have a domain which has cost me the reg fee plus Robs cut, and which I still have to develop or sell.

I wasn't entirely happy with the forced auction process at first precisely because it forces me to compete for domains I want. I've personally lost at auction for a couple of domains I caught for myself. However, I believe there's a lot of value in a quick sale, so if a domain I catch gets bids, I normally just let it ride - I'll only bid myself if I have a specific use in mind.

 

[dropsnatcher]

As somebody who has dealt with this, I can clarify:

* All domains caught through HC automatically go to auction, whether an existing backorder is in place or not.
* If there are no bids, the catcher keeps the domain at the reg fee, Rob takes no cut.
* If there are bids, the catcher has to bid the same as everybody else.
* The revenue share is identical regardless of who wins the auction.

Yes, that means that if I catch a domain I actually want, I get a share of the final price back. But I also used my quota to catch it in the first place, and I probably didn't want it to go to auction.

Nobody is going to prebid to set a reserve, because that would be pointless - if there are no bids, I get it for free anyway.

If I believe a domain is worth £500, then yes, I can bid that. If I'm wrong, I win the auction and Rob gets his cut. I now have a domain which has cost me the reg fee plus Robs cut, and which I still have to develop or sell.

I wasn't entirely happy with the forced auction process at first precisely because it forces me to compete for domains I want. I've personally lost at auction for a couple of domains I caught for myself. However, I believe there's a lot of value in a quick sale, so if a domain I catch gets bids, I normally just let it ride - I'll only bid myself if I have a specific use in mind.

interesting so you lost auctions for domains caught but did not win when bidding, the opposite of what rob said. ultimately allowing catchers to bid on their own names is beyond corrupt, it only takes the owner to bid it up to the point where actually they like the idea of selling and suddenly the other bidder has effectively been bidding against a shill even if that was not the original intent.

where you forced to send all domains to auction? it seems some remain on the old system of £5 a catch and are basically getting nothing much. probably because when the dac is not used rob is stealing (yes stealing) their dac for his own pooled checks and if taking a step further using his customers epp creates to register domains for himself which seems to be happening, are customers of his old system happy with that?

 

[super-whois]

Are auctions regulated in Malta?

 

[PoshTiger]

for those on rob/stitchbob/3gmedia system without a profit share and having no luck registering names, make notes of your actual chasing times over a week and then cos you do not have access to log info on his system, ask nominet for them, you might find your dac is being used when you are not

Can confirm this - when I moved hosts a little while ago, I obvs got a new IP that kept getting blocked when I was't chasing.

There's no authentication on DAC connections - only EPP, looks like someone has been cheating big time.

Going to call Nominet with the IP and dates this morning to see if they have logged who had that IP assigned in their DAC settings...

 

[davedevelopment]

It's not about money, I don't rely on catching for anything, I have a great job - it's always been about the race for me.. Competing with people that know nothing about the process or what's actually going on is lame.

I miss the fun of the chase, I can't compete any more and I'm thinking about hanging up my boots! I haven't been on AD for a while, but saw the DL blog post and came here to see what was going on. I don't think anyone is at fault here, other than nominet, they set the rules and it's up to them to enforce them. Everyone else is just playing the game.

 

[stitchbob]

interesting so you lost auctions for domains caught but did not win when bidding, the opposite of what rob said.

Not quite. To clarify, I've caught domains for myself which have subsequently sold during the auction process rather than dropping to me for free when they didn't sell.

I'll drop in a few stats here for context. I've caught 102 domains using the current system, of which 37 have sold at auction. The other 65 are all personal catches which dropped to me after failing to sell - so about 2/3rds of my catches are for personal use and don't end up selling.

Of the 37 that sold, only 2 were personal catches which took bids during the auction process. One of those I would have considered bidding on, but I didn't realise it had a bid until after the auction ended. The other, I decided a quick sale was worth more than adding it to my portfolio, so I let it ride. For the record, one domain sold for £50, the other for £75, and I didn't bid on either.

I haven't personally caught any backordered domains that I'd have an interest in bidding on myself. After all, most of us are in this business to sell, and the best time to sell a fresh catch is often immediately after the drop when people are watching what happened to it. Therefore, it makes sense to take the auction price when interest is at its peak.

 

[stitchbob]

EDIT: Deleted double post

 

[stitchbob]

I actually don't agree with that, I think on some occasions it's better to let it sit for a couple of months whilst people forget about it and then auction it and peoples interest is peaked again. Immediately after they fail to catch a domain, they're probably a bit depressed about it and if they see someone else has it at auction I feel like they'd be less inclined to bid at that time, lol.

Maybe, but how much extra are you willing to pay to let it sit for a few months? I'm not going to disclose the revenue share Rob uses because I haven't seen anybody else do so, but to take the previously quoted 60/40 used by Denys, you're going to have to bid on it yourself, then pay 40% of the final price just so that you can *not* sell it. That's quite a premium if your goal is to sell it anyway.