Closed thread?

[WalkinDude]

At the moment, the only change to Nominet rules (assuming they start to enforce them) to make it 100% fair would be you can only chase with a script you made yourself

Then it would be down to individual ability and time put into perfecting your own script

That would reward the people that deserve to be rewarded

No one deserves a trophy just for turning up

And no one deserves perpetual advantage just for getting the noses in first.

 

[Murray]

And no one deserves perpetual advantage just for getting the noses in first.

I'm not sure how this relates to what I posted?

 

[anthony]

I'm not sure how this relates to what I posted?

You need to read through your post again Jack, it screams self interest!

 

[stitchbob]

You would have to be rotating to catch so many and rotating would make you too slow to be competitive, there's seemingly no way around that.

i can assure you that you can still be competitive while rotating. The only DAC poll that counts is the one that says the domain has dropped, the 1000 before that are irrelevant.

Its like playing roulette, but removing the winning number from the wheel after each spin. Your chance of hitting the right number increases as the numbers thin out, but any individual number has an equal chance of dropping at any one time. It’s irrelevant whether you’re putting your money on zero every spin or changing it each time.

 

[anthony]

Without being rude, or coming across as such, I think it's important to remember people make a living from this industry (myself included). Taking that away from people is undoubtedly going to stir up some worries, in that case, I think self-interest is warranted.

Hi Ben,

I fully appreciate that. However, the system as it stands isn't fair enough to the public, which makes self-interest a conflicting stance with those who have waited for years for Nominet to focus its efforts on serving the public. Personally, if i pay £100 for a domain name, I couldn't give a monkey's uncle who's pocket it ends up in. Catching was something that evolved on the fringe, it wasn't there to be served by Nominet. An auction model is a far more attractive proposition, and most catchers already hold a vast amount of domains that are more than enough to line their pockets with gold.

 

[WalkinDude]

I'm not sure how this relates to what I posted?

Very lengthy thread earlier which broadly stated dropcatching days as is numbered. I skim read it. Im on my phone at mo.

This thread seems to have disappeared. Im opposed to nominet auctioning off all uk dropped domains for their own coffers including any promises 5% will go to charity. I also think current system favouring genius computer programmers is also unfair but better than proposed nominet auction system.

Im not even a registrar so no offence intended by any comment I make.

 

[Murray]

You need to read through your post again Jack, it screams self interest!

It's totally without any self-interest, otherwise I'd prefer it just to stay as is (with Nominet enforcing their own rules)

I don't know how to write a script, I've used hosted systems and bought scripts so I'd also be out of luck

 

[signature]

Auction does not change much, this is what many extensions uses already, wider public are only interest in a domain when they need one and auction will still be dominated by most of the people here.

This will only favour people with bigger wallet and not the public. Every .COM/.NET/.ORG and may like that goes through auctions everyday.

A lot of my none .UK domains are bought through auction and majority of buyers are domain investors.

if .UK follow the same route it will be us here that will be doing most of the buying, not the public and it will be the large registrars that will be running the auction not Nominet and not the current small domainers either. Now more mouth are fed with the current process, if new process takes thing away to the large registrars, only the already well fed will benefit.

 

[starbird]

The public couldn't care less about domains. They go to google, search, click on the top results. You will have the same buyers, just they'll pay more if, in the highly unlikely event, Nominet do go with an auction model. What I do see happens is the big registrars will have the ability to retain domains after say 30 days. The registrant may still be able to renew as per Nominet's rules but they will not drop but be auctioned off on the registrars site instead.

Truth is no one knows and I'd be confident no one here wants any changes until well after October (after the June drop and likely October drop as well).

After that it's everyone fighting for the same handful of names again but there are real opportunities for most to get good names with the huge drop in June.

 

[Whois-Search]

Can you imagine your average person looking through a drop list this week ....

Total .uk dropped
122,303 - 2020-01-20
125,239 - 2020-01-19
101,498 - 2020-01-18
80,608 - 2020-01-17
24,244 - 2020-01-16
419 - 2020-01-15
27,482 - 2020-01-14
30,187 - 2020-01-13
15,958 - 2020-01-12

I think Nominet might be too late ... at this rate there will be nothing left

 

[Siusaidh]

The Registry is haemorrhaging .uk domains, because the 'free registrations' last year only acted to temporarily create the impression of 'growth' in that area. When you add the further collapse in June, I suspect the .uk total will have dropped by approaching a million names in the year (because most of those domains are useless trash). If Nominet want growth I think they will probably find it, if at all, in security systems and diversification. Otherwise, its domain market looks like slowly contracting further, even after the .uk numerical collapse this year.

With regard to the average person or average business looking for particular domains, they will tend to be looking for specific names or keywords, and they'd use a search option on an expiring domains list. As I see it, with an auction system there would be two stages. First the very large list which would need to be searched. Second, the shortlist of names people have actually bid on to trigger an active auction.

In the end, many people would be scanning down that far smaller number of domains where an auction has been triggered by the first bid. However, all this is speculative because I agree with you about most likely outcomes.

 

[anthony]

Has Nominet ever done the research to determine what the rolling percentage is of all UK domain names that are actually being used? I'd be surprised if they haven't, and I also suspect it makes for dire reading. I'm not on about the single page plus email usage setups, but 'proper' web sites! You can see the bigger registrars promoting their value in TV advertising, maybe they are the ones who would be best placed to run a forced auction process, as they at least are reaching out to the public. Whether or not that convinces the younger crowd to think again of other options than the social media platforms to market themselves, only time will tell.

 

[Fred Steven]

Its not exactly a growth market:

https://www.nominet.uk/news/reports-statistics/uk-register-statistics-2014/

https://www.nominet.uk/news/reports-statistics/uk-register-statistics-2019/

I see a lot of very small companies, restaurants, hotels etc that used to have a website now just using facebook.

 

[starbird]

The big registrars have the artificial hike in numbers by regging names of all the .co.uk domains under them, without consent, hoping people would buy them, it didn't work. 95% are names no one will ever use, we're just chasing the 5%. After June and likely October (drops from first 2 weeks of July), the party is over.

A lot of good names going to auction way too quick and are well worth buying for what they are selling for.

 

[Whois-Search]

The Registry is haemorrhaging .uk domains, because the 'free registrations' last year only acted to temporarily create the impression of 'growth' in that area. When you add the further collapse in June, I suspect the .uk total will have dropped by approaching a million names in the year (because most of those domains are useless trash). If Nominet want growth I think they will probably find it, if at all, in security systems and diversification. Otherwise, its domain market looks like slowly contracting further, even after the .uk numerical collapse this year.

Yes the whole extension .uk is built on free names. From the figures I’ve seen 1 million are dropping right now from 123-Reg etc

The drop has only just started this week:

111,617 - 2020-01-21

Then yes another million will drop in June from Fasthosts and 1&1: https://3million.uk/ror-stats/

With regard to the average person or average business looking for particular domains, they will tend to be looking for specific names or keywords, and they'd use a search option on an expiring domains list.

Registries tend to provide the bulk data as a download:
https://afilias.com.au/about-au/domain-drop-lists

Otherwise a name could have been renewed by the time its on auction. The drop list will be a snapshot in time of expiring names that is 30 days out saying what will drop on a certain date. It will still need checking and filtering again by registrars.

As I see it, with an auction system there would be two stages. First the very large list which would need to be searched. Second, the shortlist of names people have actually bid on to trigger an active auction.

Having run one of those sites myself in the past (15 years ago):
https://web.archive.org/web/20060111041740/http://deleting.co.uk/

A lot of work goes in to the filtering of names from a drop list - eg. The names selling (at auction) the moment are SEO traffic names with DA and PA. Only the domainers here are experienced enough to filter the raw data. Who would have picked BlueTack.co.uk yesterday?

In the end, many people would be scanning down that far smaller number of domains where an auction has been triggered by the first bid. However, all this is speculative because I agree with you about most likely outcomes.

Only if it was a DVLA style auction where a set of premium names (flowers.uk etc) were promoted:

https://dvlaregistrations.dvla.gov.uk/auction/

The problem you have with auctioning expired domain names is they are not a fixed asset. They can be renewed , get deleted , or drop before the auction is promoted.

You then end up with a auction like Catch Tiger where effectively it’s a pre-bid on something they might get:
https://www.catchtiger.com/en/domain-auctions/

I know Nominet would have it to start with but the Registrant might renew it etc

 

[Hay]

The Bulgarians / Tool.Domains / Seo.Domains are bang at it with there 20 million tags running in sync around the clock, ive been analysing every request and between nominet so i can see exactly when they are sending their EPP requests based on the returned ID's... They must be running in sync... Here are some more culprit tags to add the the rest of their fake tags:

Antoniya Pavlova [Tag = APAVLOVA]
DotSensei Ltd. [Tag = DOTSENSEI]

Further breakdown: https://companycheck.co.uk/company/...ompanies-house-data#directors-and-secretaries

I could go much deeper and link all their staff / directors to all their accounts but really cant be bothered as its too blatant anyway, all you need to do is look at the director database (not the link through on companies house but the actual downloadable persons of significance database)

There is having a competitive script and outright taking the piss!

 

[Siusaidh]

re Andrew and an auction approach:
I see the process as a means to giving members of the public the same access to dropping domains (at the point they drop and become available) as what is at present a very small group of people running the best software/scripts.

If people want to renew expiring domains they already can, so that's not a factor in any change of process.

I simply see the drop process as:

Stage 1. A searchable list of all names due to drop with option to make the first bid (at which point you nominate your preferred Registrar if you win the auction).

Stage 2. A single webpage for the actual live names up for a 5-day auction, (triggered by the first bid) which at any one time would probably consist of 500+ names at most. Some weeks it would be maybe 200 in any one 5-day period.

 

[Siusaidh]

I will be at the meeting in Birmingham and I suggest, if some of you are concerned and don't live too far away, some of you may want to attend as well to emphasise the mayhem going on. February 11th.

 

[Murray]

I see the process as a means to giving members of the public the same access to dropping domains (at the point they drop and become available) as what is at present a very small group of people running the best software/scripts..

How would you fix sports?

Currently only the best sportsman in the world make the big money; why shouldn't I be able to pick up a tennis racket and get a share of Wimbledon winnings etc

Practice? skill? a life time put into the game? urgh, no thank you elitist sports, just give me the money

 

[stitchbob]

Its all well and good looking at the process from the bubble of a domainer, but Nominet have to look at the big picture. If they start to do anything other than act as a completely neutral body, they’ll upset the entire industry.

* All their members will be annoyed that they’re cutting out the middleman after charging us membership fees to take our place in the Registry > Registrar > Registrant tier Structure.
* The dispute process will need to be overhauled or outsourced, as Nominet can’t independently adjudicate themselves.
* They’ll have to deal with end users who are upset that their lapsed domain is suddenly being auctioned for hundreds of pounds, while their competitor reregistered theirs at normal price. Either that or all dropped domains go to auction and we’re back where we started.
* They won’t actually fix anything - there will still be a secondary market, and it will still be dominated by resellers. It will just get a lot more expensive for the end user.

Having clear separation between themselves and the resale market is good both for Nominet and the big companies who make up their board. A few grand here and there is peanuts compared to what those companies would lose under a different structure.

As far as access to the market, anybody can become a registrar, buy a script and crack on. Anybody can also fix their own boiler by taking a few courses and getting certified. Most of us still hire a plumber because it’s easier to pay somebody for their expertise than do it yourself.