Wanted: Domain Appraisal chanelbags.co.uk

[arkvard]

Yeah I agree always best to stay away from trademark domains because in the end especially if they go high in the serps they will always get taken off you. I used to have loads of trademark domains about 3-4 years ago until a famous upmarket clothes brand came after me for one.

I used to have a famous UK name branded clothing site using ebay as the affiliate when they used to pay big bucks for signups. My problem was the site got to no.1 in both Google and Yahoo after about 3 months so it was even ahead of the famous .com brand for loads of really good keyword.

Of course they found out in the end! I got an email one day from their top lawyers in America that was quite frightening to read at 1st but the worst thing was a Fedex delivery to my house the same day saying the same thing.

Was gutted for a few minutes because the domain was earning high £xxx a month with no promotion or nothing done, but then I thought well I only paid $120 for the whole site on another forum so it had paid for itself many times over.

Lets just say I transferred the domain to them the same day, and just sent them a really simple email saying domain pushed to your account and that was the end, never got a reply back either.

The moral of the story is don't waste your time on any trademark domains they will always end up being taken off you, and quick if they are doing well in the serps.

In the end I counted myself lucky with them just asking me to transfer it too them with no cost or stress to me, well accept the easy income I was earning at the time

 

[Blossom]

2 issues here.
1st, BT may shun away from any adverse publicity caused by threatening to close you down, your site could actually go viral if you kicked up a stink about their threat
2nd, a court may well decide that your site was 'in the public interest' and rule in your favour

But of course it also depends whether it's legitimate complaints or whether it basically amounts to libel.

 

[dashu1]

Yeah I agree always best to stay away from trademark domains because in the end especially if they go high in the serps they will always get taken off you. I used to have loads of trademark domains about 3-4 years ago until a famous upmarket clothes brand came after me for one.

I used to have a famous UK name branded clothing site using ebay as the affiliate when they used to pay big bucks for signups. My problem was the site got to no.1 in both Google and Yahoo after about 3 months so it was even ahead of the famous .com brand for loads of really good keyword.

Of course they found out in the end! I got an email one day from their top lawyers in America that was quite frightening to read at 1st but the worst thing was a Fedex delivery to my house the same day saying the same thing.

Was gutted for a few minutes because the domain was earning high £xxx a month with no promotion or nothing done, but then I thought well I only paid $120 for the whole site on another forum so it had paid for itself many times over.

Lets just say I transferred the domain to them the same day, and just sent them a really simple email saying domain pushed to your account and that was the end, never got a reply back either.

The moral of the story is don't waste your time on any trademark domains they will always end up being taken off you, and quick if they are doing well in the serps.

In the end I counted myself lucky with them just asking me to transfer it too them with no cost or stress to me, well accept the easy income I was earning at the time

I got a fedex package from a top US law firm as well on behalf of a top car hire firm regarding a .org.uk car hire domain I had.

I emailed them back and said okay, no problem sending it over to you as long as you cover our admin costs of £175 and they paid it!

In hindsight I think that might have been a bit of a bold (or crazy) move.

I guess to them £175 or similar is peanuts and it's safer and more cost effective to pay it rather than trudging to court and having the possibility of losing.

 

[arkvard]

I got a fedex package from a top US law firm as well on behalf of a top car hire firm regarding a .org.uk car hire domain I had.

I emailed them back and said okay, no problem sending it over to you as long as you cover our admin costs of £175 and they paid it!

In hindsight I think that might have been a bit of a bold (or crazy) move.

I guess to them £175 or similar is peanuts and it's safer and more cost effective to pay it rather than trudging to court and having the possibility of losing.

Yeah a bit cheeky but you got away with it anyway

 

[namealot]

For anyone that wants them last 200 (250 names) and outcomes
Might help some to see what are blatant and not so blatant all info available on nom
(35 of the coms were free to reg) 2 co'uk are suspended and one free too reg…
.111= co.uk
.222= org.uk
.333= me.uk

dunelmfurnishings .111 Summary Decision Transfer
assertis .111 Summary Decision Transfer
sparkenergy.222 Summary Decision Transfer
coastdresses-uk .111 Summary Decision Transfer
coast-dresses-uk .111 Summary Decision Transfer
americaneagleoutfitters .111 Summary Decision Transfer
swarovskiuk-salesa .111 Summary Decision Transfer
swarovski-crystal-necklace .111
swarovski-crystal-ring .111
dunhelm .111 Summary Decision Transfer
denelm .111 Summary Decision Transfer
elcorteingles .111 Full Decision Transfer
phillipmorrisdirect .111 Summary Decision Transfer
opticalexpressruinedmylife .111 Full Decision No Action
musicalsolutionslimited .111 Summary Decision Transfer
gulfkeystone .111 Full Decision Transfer
karenmillendressonsale .111 Summary Decision Transfer
ontrackgrandprix .111 Appeal for case D00010482 Appeal: Upheld - Transfer
senategrandprix .111
karenmillen-uk .111 Summary Decision Transfer
tmgtelecom .111 Full Decision Transfer
londons-waste .111 Summary Decision Transfer
sensorywarehouse .111 Full Decision Transfer
comparingthemarket .111 Summary Decision Transfer
fbdinsurance .111 Summary Decision Transfer
moneyshopstore .111 Summary Decision Transfer
swarovskiuk.222 Summary Decision Transfer
budget-van-hire-car-hire .111 Summary Decision Transfer
budget-van-rental .111
tumblr .111 Appeal for case D00011211 Appeal: Upheld - Transfer
karenmillenoutletsales .111 Summary Decision Transfer
giglets .111 Summary Decision Transfer
natwest-ppi-reclaim .111 Full Decision Transfer
mahindra .111 Full Decision Transfer
jimmychoosaleshoes .111 Summary Decision Transfer
swarovskiuk-sales .111 Summary Decision Transfer
swarovskiuksales .111
nicholaskirkwoods .111 Summary Decision Transfer
karenmillendress.222 Summary Decision Transfer
whichmagazine.222 Full Decision Transfer
taxassist.me.uk Full Decision Transfer
paraide .111 Summary Decision Transfer
olsenuk .111 Full Decision Transfer
privatejetcharter.me.uk Summary Decision Transfer
quidquid .111 Full Decision Transfer
tools-draper .111 Full Decision Transfer
jbrandjeans.222 Summary Decision Transfer
technistone .111 Full Decision No Action
watch-omega .111 Summary Decision Transfer
ciroclondon .111 Summary Decision Transfer
squarespace .111 Summary Decision Transfer
rollsroycephantomhire .111 Full Decision Transfer
elitemachineknives .111 Full Decision Transfer
featherdownfarmdays .111 Summary Decision Transfer
musgravegroup .111 Summary Decision Transfer
barclaysbkplc .111 Full Decision Transfer
ventureshield .111 Summary Decision Transfer
piratelego .111 Summary Decision Transfer
portlandhospital .111 Full Decision Transfer
gillinghamfc .111 Full Decision Transfer
theportlandhospital .111 Full Decision Transfer
viacom.222 Summary Decision Transfer
viacom.333
webuyanycars4more .111 Full Decision Transfer
fabswinngers .111 Summary Decision Transfer
jupiter-online .111 Summary Decision Transfer
peterkaiser .111 Summary Decision Transfer
popuppowersupplies .111 Full Decision Transfer
synoquin .111 Summary Decision Transfer
winster-hose .111 Summary Decision Transfer
pta .111 Full Decision No Action
harper-macleod .111 Summary Decision Transfer
which-advisor .111 Full Decision No Action
coachesepsom .111 Full Decision Transfer
theluxurynetwork .111 Summary Decision Transfer
luxurynetwork .111
theluxurynetworkinternational .111
Summary Decision Transfer
exenergy .111 Appeal for case D00010475 Appeal: Overturned - Transfer
bingauto .111 Full Decision Transfer
bingcars .111
binghome .111
bingcar .111
binghomes .111
coliccalm .111 Full Decision Transfer
glos-jobs .111 Summary Decision Transfer
tumblr .111 Summary Decision Transfer
winchester-floor-sanding .111 Summary Decision Transfer
dapa .111 Full Decision No Action
surepass .111 Summary Decision Transfer
ontrackgrandprix .111Full Decisio Other
senategrandprix .111
xeroxparts .111 Full Decision Transfer
ourswarovski .111 Summary Decision Transfer
sat-elite .111 Full Decision Transfer
swarovskicrystalsuk .111 Summary Decision Transfer
nationalcarhire .111 Summary Decision Transfer
drmartensboots .111 Summary Decision Transfer
avivainvesters .111 Summary Decision Transfer
aviav .111
avaiva .111
aviva-for-advisors .111
swarovskijewelryshop .111 Summary Decision Transfer
steadandsimpsons .111 Summary Decision Transfer
bahiaprincipecostaadeje .111 Full Decision Transfer
urbannoutfitters .111 Full Decision Transfer
uranoutfitters .111
urbanoutfiters .111
urbanutfitters .111
urbanoutfittters .111
urbanoutfittrs .111
urbanoutfittes .111
urbanotfitters .111
wwwurbanoutfitters .111
urbonoutfitters .111
urbinoutfitters .111
urbnoutfitters .111
zanussi-spares .111 Summary Decision Transfer
taxrebateprovided .111 Summary Decision Other
taxrebatepro .111
ikeacroydondelivery .111 Summary Decision Transfer
legomba .111 Summary Decision Transfer
enterprisetwo .111 Summary Decision Transfer
rbs-international .111 Summary Decision Transfer
airsoftskirmish .111 Full Decision No Action
institutsoskin .111 Full Decision Transfer
thelegotoy .111 Summary Decision Transfer
nationalcarrental.333 Summary Decision Transfer
nationalcarsrental .111
alamo.333
alamocar .111
nationalcar-rental .111
haysmontrose .111 Summary Decision Transfer
new911 .111 Summary Decision Transfer
newcayman .111
bjgsolutions .111 Full Decision Transfer
southernfabrications .111 Full Decision Transfer
porscheeu .111 Summary Decision Transfer
porscheinverness .111
porscheshowrooms .111
porscheengland .111
scotlandporsche .111
glenvarigillporsche .111
porscheeurope .111
scaniapartsdirect .111 Summary Decision Transfer
dpdcouriers .111 Summary Decision Transfer
junghans .111 Full Decision Transfer
montibello .111 Full Decision Transfer
laptophut .111 Summary Decision Transfer
environphone .111 Summary Decision Transfer
porschenew .111 Summary Decision Transfer
porscheused .111
giorgioarmani.me.uk Summary Decision Transfer
jetpatcher .111 Full Decision Transfer
direct2solicitorsltd .111 Summary Decision Transfer
easyliveauction .111 Full Decision No Action
easylive .111
mybarclays .111 Full Decision Transfer
pontecollsfc .111 Full Decision Transfer
keatsengineering .111
solarking .111 Summary Decision Transfer
pokerstarsmobile .111 Full Decision Transfer
envirophonerecycling .111 Summary Decision Transfer
mercure-uk .111 Full Decision Cancellation
southendholidayinn .111 Full Decision Transfer
wwwbarclay-card .111 Full Decision Transfer
naughtybe .111 Summary Decision Transfer
infotools .111 Summary Decision Transfer
lululemon .111 Summary Decision Transfer
buxtonspa .111 Full Decision No Action
siberian-cat-club .111 Summary Decision Transfer
harleystreet-clinic .111 Full Decision Transfer
royal-bankofscotland .111 Summary Decision Transfer
ditramatting .111 Full Decision Transfer
theempire .111 Summary Decision No Action
environfone .111 Summary Decision Transfer
wyparkingenforcement .111 Summary Decision Transfer
benaughtyreview .111 Summary Decision Transfer
be-naughty .111 Summary Decision No Action
qinetiq .111 Summary Decision Transfer
phsdatashred .111 Summary Decision Transfer
astellas-europe .111 Full Decision Transfer
windows8slate .111 Full Decision Transfer
arcelormittal .111 Summary Decision Transfer
armedforcescompensationscheme .111 Summary Decision Transfer
ukburberry .111 Summary Decision Transfer
jbrand-jeans .111 Summary Decision Transfer
lavenderhillstudios .111 Full Decision Transfer
textmimedia .111 Summary Decision Transfer
via-sat .111 Summary Decision Transfer
colourvue .111 Full Decision Transfer
maygurney.222 Summary Decision Transfer
funnyzulus .111 Summary Decision No Action
veterinarynursesolutions .111 Full Decision Transfer
vetnursesolutions .111
webuyanycarnorthwest .111 Full Decision Transfer
smokefreenhs .111 Summary Decision Transfer
burberrysaleuk .111 Summary Decision Transfer
viasatsport .111 Summary Decision Transfer
mercedesvanservice .111 Summary Decision Transfer
coffeeconscience .111 Full Decision No Action
tradeskills4utraining .111 Full Decision Transfer
tradeskills4ucourses .111
canterburyskinandlaser .111 Full Decision Transfer
accorhoteluk .111 Full Decision Cancellation
viasatfootball .111 Summary Decision Transfer
hackettlondonsale .111 Summary Decision Transfer
workbox .111 Full Decision No Action
moneyandmarkets .111 Summary Decision Transfer
propshaftservices .111 Full Decision No Action
driveshaftservices .111
moshimoshi .111 Full Decision Transfer
faegrebd .111 Summary Decision Transfer
ravelshoesonline .111 Summary Decision Transfer
jimmychooshoesuksales .111 Summary Decision Transfer
jimmychooshoesuksale .111
psychicsofa.222 Summary Decision Transfer
the-edi .111 Summary Decision Transfer
hamways .111 Full Decision Transfer
bubblychampagnecompany .111 Full Decision Transfer
thebubblychampagneco .111
exenergy .111 Full Decision No Action
porterspaints .111 Summary Decision No Action
wolseleyworld .111 Full Decision Transfer
wolseleyregister .111
electroluxprofessional .111 Summary Decision Transfer
porscheportsmouth .111 Full Decision Transfer
jcrew .111 Summary Decision Transfer
bonhams .111 Summary Decision Transfer
barclayloans .111 Full Decision Transfer
peuterey .111 Summary Decision Transfer
knightonestates .111 Summary Decision Transfer
livingsocialescapes .111 Full Decision Transfer
enterpriseonline .111 Summary Decision Transfer
faegrebakerdaniels .111 Summary Decision Transfer
philosophy .111 Appeal for case D00010075Appeal: Overturned - No Action
excalibur .111 Full Decision No Action
3m-motors .111 Summary Decision Transfer
sportexexhausts .111 Summary Decision Transfer
uktoluna .111 Summary Decision Transfer
womenshealthuk .111 Summary Decision Transfer
smartyhadaparty .111 Full Decision Transfer
landcruise .111 Full Decision No Action
furnitureland .111 Appeal for case D00009674 Appeal: Upheld - No Action
bakerandmckenzie .111 Summary Decision Transfer
avayadirect .111 Full Decision Transfer
trinitywinchester.222 Summary Decision Transfer

 

[crazihos]

One of the more famous test cases on complaint style sites:

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/8451677.WALTHAMSTOW__Ryanair_complaints_site_continues/

Any other firm may have balked at the bad publicity but I'm sure the pr team at Ryanair got a slap on the back and a bonus.

 

[devilsrefugee]

Have a related question at a bit of a tangent....

Last year I had a farcical level of problems with my phone and broadband services caused by BT. I needed to vent my anger and was considering registering a blog with "BT suck" or similar in the title however I quickly discovered that loads of these sites already exist. I posted a lengthy rant on what appeared to be the most popular of these sites (I can't remember the URL unfortunately)

Anyhow the surprising thing was that despite being a dedicated anti-BT site it contained adsense ads advertising BT services so it could be argued the owners were profiting from BT

Would BT lawyers be able to shut such a site down? Would it make a difference if they were simply airing legitimate complaints but not profiting (ie didn't have adsense)? Is there a trademark issue in simply registering an "I hate company x" or "company x suck".com name ?

well ofc bt ads were served...you was no doubt searching for bt related info (whether neg or pos) so as such the ads are targeted to you.

 

[kate-brownhill]

Informational Site

Yes. Doesn't make any difference.

Look it at another way: if Chanel didn't exist, you would literally NEVER have registered that domain name (because it would have 0 exacts). So 100% of any potential value in the domain name can be attributed to the branding efforts that Chanel has made over the decades and the (cumulative) billions they've spent doing so.

Ok, I looked into this a bit more and could not find anything to substantiate the claim above. I found this on Nominet:
http://www.nic.uk/disputes/drs/?contentId=5239

Which states:
4. How the Respondent may demonstrate in its response that the Domain Name is not an Abusive Registration


a. A non-exhaustive list of factors which may be evidence that the Domain Name is not an Abusive Registration is as follows:



i. Before being aware of the Complainant's cause for complaint (not necessarily the 'complaint' under the DRS), the Respondent has:

A. used or made demonstrable preparations to use the Domain Name or a domain name which is similar to the Domain Name in connection with a genuine offering of goods or services;
B. been commonly known by the name or legitimately connected with a mark which is identical or similar to the Domain Name;
C. made legitimate non-commercial or fair use of the Domain Name; or

ii. The Domain Name is generic or descriptive and the Respondent is making fair use of it;
iii. In relation to paragraph 3(a)(v); that the Respondent’s holding of the Domain Name is consistent with an express term of a written agreement entered into by the Parties; or
iv. In relation to paragraphs 3(a)(iii) and/or 3(c); that the Domain Name is not part of a wider pattern or series of registrations because the Domain Name is of a significantly different type or character to the other domain names registered by the Respondent.


b. Fair use may include sites operated solely in tribute to or in criticism of a person or business.
c. If paragraph 3(c) applies, to succeed the Respondent must rebut the presumption by proving in the Response that the registration of the Domain Name is not an Abusive Registration.

d. Trading in domain names for profit, and holding a large portfolio of domain names, are of themselves lawful activities. The Expert will review each case on its merits.

e. Sale of traffic (i.e. connecting domain names to parking pages and earning click-per-view revenue) is not of itself objectionable under the Policy. However, the Expert will take into account:

i. the nature of the Domain Name;
ii. the nature of the advertising links on any parking page associated with the Domain Name; and
iii. that the use of the Domain Name is ultimately the Respondent’s responsibility.


So from the above, if i operated a site explaining how great chanel bags are, i dont think they can do anything about it as it could be considered "fair use". Saying that, i dont think its something i have the inclination or money / time to test.

 

[Edwin]

Kate, my post was meant as a pointer to help people determine what was an obvious trademark term vs a generic term.

In other words, if the answer to "If companyX/productY didn't exist, would a domain name containing companyX/productY have any value?" is negative, then it's an obvious trademark infringement waiting to happen.

Specifically in this case, "chanel" means nothing at all in English, so if Chanel didn't exist and weren't making bags, you could line a billion people up and get them to suggest domains and they still wouldn't come up with "chanelbags.co.uk" as an idea. So 100% of the value comes from Chanel.

 

[devilsrefugee]

Also what domainer would buy a domain they cant make a single penny from? lol

 

[stellar73]

if i operated a site explaining how great chanel bags are, i dont think they can do anything about it as it could be considered "fair use". Saying that, i dont think its something i have the inclination or money / time to test.

You wouldnt be able to monetise it (even with Adsense) without putting yourself at massive risk... even if you did a complete not for profit "fan" site they could take it off you whenever they wanted!

 

[kate-brownhill]

ok, so for argument sake, assuming I have no interest in monetising it, am I increasing my chances of winning a case against me? Also, will it be Nominet who decides or a court of law? Only trying to understand this better and finding not much on the web which relates to this sort of case.

 

[eddieb]

Hi, you would most likely be fine just running a site promoting or reviewing Chanel bags but I'm not sure why you would want to do this, unless you are a really big fan.

 

[stellar73]

ok, so for argument sake, assuming I have no interest in monetising it, am I increasing my chances of winning a case against me? Also, will it be Nominet who decides or a court of law? Only trying to understand this better and finding not much on the web which relates to this sort of case.

I think there's a difference between what your intentions actually are and what Chanel (if they chose to do so) could assert that your intentions are. I would have thought that even at the moment, while you are doing nothing with the name, they would be quite within their rights to bring a DRS action based on the fact that your registration of the name is preventing them (as the owner of a similar trademark) from registering it themselves and therefore is abusive in that respect at the very least.

Two of the tests of abusive registration are:-

"Has the domain name been registered with the primary purpose of stopping you from using it?" and:-
"Has the domain name been used to confuse Internet users?"

Even if your intentions were honourable they wouldnt have much difficulty proving these as it would come down to what an 'independent observer' thought was a fair registration and fair use. As Edwin said without Chanel having built their brand you would never have registered this as a domain so they would win hands down.

I know you're not selling counterfeit goods but this is interesting from the point of view of how seriously they take infringements, in particular the last para:-
http://www.ipbrief.net/2011/09/24/chanel-claims-trademark-infringement-by-hundreds-of-websites-selling-counterfeit-goods/

 

[retired_member32]

Instead of fighting it....delete it

ignorance is no defence, you will be hit hard and is it worth losing money over such a low grade domain, there is a very good chance you will be made an example of and publicly humiliated, there is a reason why chanel do not hoover up all the domains containing there brand name....

 

[kate-brownhill]

I am only using the domain as an example. The thread may have started specifically about Chanelbags.co.uk but it has become a learning curve for me anyhow. Rather than "just drop it" I would much prefer learning more about this for future reference. Thanks for your input though.

Instead of fighting it....delete it

ignorance is no defence, you will be hit hard and is it worth losing money over such a low grade domain, there is a very good chance you will be made an example of and publicly humiliated, there is a reason why chanel do not hoover up all the domains containing there brand name....

 

[Edwin]

Instead of fighting it....delete it

ignorance is no defence, you will be hit hard and is it worth losing money over such a low grade domain, there is a very good chance you will be made an example of and publicly humiliated, there is a reason why chanel do not hoover up all the domains containing there brand name....

Agreed. It only takes a PRSS on your name (assuming your registrations have consistent Whois details) for somebody seeking to DRS you over a particular domain to turn up a "pattern of abuse" if they can point to other infringing domains.

That's why you need to either have a squeaky-clean portfolio (best choice by far) or divide your names into "clean" and "dirty" and make sure the latter are held by an entity with no discernible connections whatsoever to your clean portfolio!

Keeping everything mixed together is like walking through a minefield - you don't know what will go off when, but something certainly could.

 

[kate-brownhill]

Found this to be very interesting:

http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/caselaw/index/tesco/

Well worth a read and supports what people have been saying here.

This still does not make it clear how protected you would be if you did NOT monetise your site or if you used the site for information only.

 

[surprise]

Apple goes after Polish grocery store a . pl !!!


http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2204675/apple-goes-after-polish-grocery-store

 

[boxerdog]

Apple goes after Polish grocery store a . pl !!!


http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2204675/apple-goes-after-polish-grocery-store

unbelievable!! Or is it