bounce.co.uk drs

[texidriver]

I think we've yet to see a Respondent defend their case whereby the domain name is a generic, the Complainant allegedes pattern of abusive registration and Respondent responds, together with supporting evidence, claiming that this registration is not part of a pattern of abusive registration...

http://www.nic.uk/digitalAssets/3396_retail.pdf

I think this is all three you ask for ?

 

[texidriver]

...
If Respondent isn't going to be able to respond to defend (b) then the expert,...

...The expert can choose whether to delve a bit further, and how far, or not bother too.

e. Except as otherwise provided in this Procedure or as otherwise decided by us or if appointed, the Expert, all communications provided for under this Procedure shall be deemed to have been received:

i. if sent by facsimile, on the date transmitted; or

ii. if sent by first class post, on the second Day after posting; or

iii. if sent via the Internet, on the date that the communication was transmitted;


d. Procedural Issues
There is no evidence before the Expert to indicate the presence of exceptional circumstances that prevented the Respondent from submitting a response to Nominet within the required time period; accordingly, the Expert will now proceed to a Decision on the Complaint..

This "expert" needs an atlas.
and a dictionary to look up the word "delve"

 

[tifosi]

I think we've yet to see a Respondent defend their case whereby the domain name is a generic, the Complainant allegedes pattern of abusive registration and Respondent responds, together with supporting evidence, claiming that this registration is not part of a pattern of abusive registration...

http://www.nic.uk/digitalAssets/3396_retail.pdf

I think this is all three you ask for ?

webservers drs
http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/drs/decisions/?contentId=2766

where i used the cyclone.co.uk of seb clark

"ownership of a number of generic domains is NOT abuse, knowledge of how to obtain releasing domains is NOT abuse, parking o generic domains is NOT abuse, non-use of a registered domain is NOT abuse"

S

 

[olebean]

Reading the case and all the threads, what I am surprised at is the expert suggests he had no evidence as to why Michael could not have replied.

There are several issues here

1. Did / does nominet inform the expert that the email had been returned
2. why does it appear the expert chose to ignore the relevance of Michaels location

Equally, why does it appear the expert chose to look at the whois details of the other domains, rather than looking at the length of time post takes to and from TC...

It just smacks that the evidence was indeed there, and it was either ignored, or perhaps more oldly dismissed, in favour of a proccess if chosen that appears to renumerate further those who have power who then became judge and jury on perhaps contentious names... albit unproven and undefended names..

Yes, I am sure most of you agree bounce is fairly well known, as the expert suggested, other parties have TM's with the name and so accepts that it is plausible that P&G doesnt not have unilateral rights...


Before I sign off, I wish you well Michael since it appears you have been denied the right to defend yourself on many points...

 

[texidriver]

.... I'm waiting for a generic to be lumped in with half a dozen typos or more, and where the Respondent submits a response, not a generic lumped in with a short accronym (which had been sold long before the DRS) and another generic....

I do not see why you consider the "retail.co.uk" DRS "a generic lumped in" with anything else.
The "mention" of other domains that are not part of the DRS claim is a tactic used by both sides.

Do you mean a DRS like;
http://www.nic.uk/digitalAssets/1020_lawyer-mediator.pdf ?

However in this case the Respondent did not respond but prevailed.

Or do you mean a DRS with; retail.co.uk + retale.co.uk + retayle.co.uk ?

 

[Edwin]

ii. if sent by first class post, on the second Day after posting

From the Royal Mail's own site...
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400023&mediaId=9300094

Notice the "UK standard mail & parcel services" header above "First Class"? That's because First and Second class don't apply outside the UK, except in very limited cases First applies to a handful of EU countries. It certainly does not apply outside those countries, and Second does not apply ANYWHERE outside the UK.

Again, from the Royal Mail's site. Note the "working days" part, which can easily push the time to one week. Plus it's an aim, not a guarantee - and it assumes the company posting the item has put the RIGHT amount of postage on - varies by destination - and not simply whacked a First class stamp onto it (which could stretch the delivery process indefinitely).

We aim to deliver to European destinations within three working days and worldwide within five

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump2?mediaId=400036&catId=400033

Clearly Nominet needs to jump in and go with the times, and amend its process instructions to explicitly cover people who live outside the United Kingdom.

 

[Nigel]

Good evidence Edwin to show Nominet's blatantly flawed DRS process for overseas clients. On your evidence alone Nominet should be funding the £3000 appeal cost of any overseas client who is 'timed out' bearing in mind that it is nigh impossible to receive and send back a response by post (and assuming emails not received) within the 14 days allowed.

I believe that a 6 week response time (for UK and overseas) would not be unreasonable bearing in mind that many people have a 2-3 holiday and if a DRS lands on your mat the day after you've gone you've got no hope of defending yourself. Whoever thought up Nominet's ludicrous and punitive 14 day rule could have only had the claimant's interest at heart for it is designed to give the respondent very little time to think over the situation even if he gets the DRS in time. I don't think the members would allow the same rule to be introduced today.

 

[Edwin]

Just to make sure I'm clear. Personally, I am not suggesting any "deliberate" attempt on Nominet's part to sabotage the DRS process for overseas registrants, but simply that they may well not be aware of the realities of everyday life outside the UK.

 

[FC Domains]

In court proceedings it's always possible to have a decision overturned and start again, on the grounds that the correct procedures were not followed.
This would include having never received the paperwork and judgements that contain obvious errors.
This isn't the same as appealing and is handled quickly.

With Nominet would do you have to pay £3000, just to tell them that a case wasn't handled correctly?

 

[Nigel]

Yes FC £3000 to say you've been away on holiday

 

[aqls]

Complainant will always have more time to prepare the case - they can initiate DRS only after they have prepared the case.

Initiating DRS just at busy holiday periods, preferably day before christmas eve.

Or worse, they can find out exact information about respondents whereabouts in order to complain at the right time, and indeed which are the best domains to target - i.e. Turks and Caicos crap mail system - carnival time - EXCELLENT!

Maybe respondent should be advised of DRS initiation and time starts ticking from when they log into some sort of escrow to determine details (like which domain, on what grounds etc).

i.e. if they don't respond then either they didn't get the communications or they are playing for time. At the least it flags it up as needing further effort to communicate with defendent, and there could still be penalties if defendant was found to be playing for time (i.e. all methods of communication were unrealistically failing).

-aqls-

 

[Nigel]

Well put aqls

Be nice to hear from Nominet on this

They seem to have gone to ground the last few days - mind you its half term from today

and perhaps they're all on holiday

but I'm sure they'll deal with it when they get back in a week or two

 

[olebean]

In the court process, you can if you were not aware of the situation, write in and the judge will look at the details. I have known it, where the judge suspends the decisions pending a new hearing at no cost to the repondant..

 

[EdPhillips]

Well put aqls

Be nice to hear from Nominet on this

They seem to have gone to ground the last few days - mind you its half term from today

and perhaps they're all on holiday

but I'm sure they'll deal with it when they get back in a week or two

Well, I've said before on this forum, and I should say again - I don't always have time to post.

In addition, bounce.co.uk is potentially under appeal, so I really do not want to make any comment on it specifically.

On the topic of service times etc, that is something that can be looked at in the next review. Service by email or other electronic means is likely to remain part of the DRS, not least because it helps with (but may not entirely solve) the question of being on notice.

 

[Nigel]

Well, I've said before on this forum, and I should say again - I don't always have time to post.

In addition, bounce.co.uk is potentially under appeal, so I really do not want to make any comment on it specifically.

On the topic of service times etc, that is something that can be looked at in the next review. Service by email or other electronic means is likely to remain part of the DRS, not least because it helps with (but may not entirely solve) the question of being on notice.

Thanks for the post Ed - Let's hope that service times are made fairer at the next review - although that's not going to help Michael Toth or any other unfortunate non UK resident (or a UK resident on holiday) in the meantime.

 

[bb99]

On the topic of service times etc, that is something that can be looked at in the next review.

Ed - it's been reported on Nom-Steer that the DRS is currently under review... To clarify, do you mean it'll be looked at in this current one or do you mean it'll be looked at in some future review after this one?

Thanks

 

[EdPhillips]

Ed - it's been reported on Nom-Steer that the DRS is currently under review... To clarify, do you mean it'll be looked at in this current one or do you mean it'll be looked at in some future review after this one?

Thanks

The usual format for a DRS review is to have a public consultation, and currently I would expect that this time around.

In a consultation, you are free to put in any thoughts you have, so even if there isn't a question on service of documents you will be able to make your views felt.

 

[Beasty]

The usual format for a DRS review is to have a public consultation, and currently I would expect that this time around.

In a consultation, you are free to put in any thoughts you have, so even if there isn't a question on service of documents you will be able to make your views felt.

Sorry Ed - I did not quite understand that. Is there a DRS consulation going on now, or is it going to take place sometime in the future?

 

[Hazel Pegg]

Sorry Ed - I did not quite understand that. Is there a DRS consulation going on now, or is it going to take place sometime in the future?

Not yet but sometime in the future. I believe that a DRS Review is currently taking place. At the moment we are in the bit where Nominet bods and the experts look at what they perceive as issues and then draw up a paper for wider consultation. At the May PAB meeting I will be asking for an update and an indication as to when it will go out to a full public consultation. That's the bit where the rest of us get to put in our twopenn'orth.

Hazel

 

[Beasty]

Not yet but sometime in the future. I believe that a DRS Review is currently taking place. At the moment we are in the bit where Nominet bods and the experts look at what they perceive as issues and then draw up a paper for wider consultation. At the May PAB meeting I will be asking for an update and an indication as to when it will go out to a full public consultation. That's the bit where the rest of us get to put in our twopenn'orth.

Hazel

Thanks Hazel. For the benefit of those who only pay for the domains, at the PAB meeting could you please ask Nominet to consult ALL Registrants this time - not just the IP lawyers and others with vested interests - which is what happened on the last two occaisions. If nothing else, it would be a good excercise to find out how many contact email addresses bounce back!

The money for domain registrations - and so Nominet - is only coming from one place. It's not the Nominet Members or the ISP who register the domains - it's from the 4.6 million domain registrants - the vast majority of whom have no direct say in anything that Nominet does.