BBC Radio 4 12pm-1pm 14th June 2013 - domain trading

[Systreg]

Well that was a waste of time listening to.

 

[tifosi]

Can I have that 2 mins of my life back please.... should have had Lee Owen!

 

[bulkcorn]

I missed it! :sad:

 

[Systreg]

I missed it! :sad:

You're lucky, you saved 10 minutes of your life not wasted

 

[Edwin]

Ian's a gracious speaker, and it wasn't a bad piece, but as pointed out earlier in this thread it was from the beginning a fishing expedition from a reporter who desperately wanted to hear about the "quick bucks" to be made from a market he clearly either doesn't understand at all, or is doing a good job faking a lack of understanding.

 

[DaveLeeds]

Ian's a gracious speaker, and it wasn't a bad piece, but as pointed out earlier in this thread it was from the beginning a fishing expedition from a reporter who desperately wanted to hear about the "quick bucks" to be made from a market he clearly either doesn't understand at all, or is doing a good job faking a lack of understanding.

Probably the latter Edwin and I don't think we've heard the last. Look out for the exaggerated quotes in the Daily's.

 

[Lucien Taylor]

I thought it was great but I'm bound to say that. It made the domain investment business sound like any other exciting business without the negative spin for a change.

 

[Edwin]

It made the domain investment business sound like any other exciting business without the negative spin for a change.

But in the context framed by the programme, I don't think that was necessarily all positive. As I said, Ian held up his side of the discussion extremely well, but he was ambushed a bit by the Pizza.com question and it may leave those who don't already know the industry with the picture of a get-rich-quick mentality (register a name for a few dollars, sell it for $2.5 million).

Plus the full and frank answer to "how would you advise people to get started today?" is really "you can't, that boat already sailed long ago" (though perhaps phrased more tactfully than that). There is near-zero opportunity for a normal person with modest resources (read: little/no money) or knowledge to set themselves up for a big win in domaining starting in 2013. Sure, you can make a few pounds as a "fun hobby" but it's not going to turn into a livelihood for anyone starting out today, unless they have access to the capital to buy on the aftermarket AND the knowhow to make extremely shrewd picks. And if they have both, there are much easier ways to get rich...

 

[Lucien Taylor]

But in the context framed by the programme, I don't think that was necessarily all positive. As I said, Ian held up his side of the discussion extremely well, but he was ambushed a bit by the Pizza.com question and it may leave those who don't already know the industry with the picture of a get-rich-quick mentality (register a name for a few dollars, sell it for $2.5 million).

Plus the full and frank answer to "how would you advise people to get started today?" is really "you can't, that boat already sailed long ago" (though perhaps phrased more tactfully than that). There is near-zero opportunity for a normal person with modest resources (read: little/no money) or knowledge to set themselves up for a big win in domaining starting in 2013. Sure, you can make a few pounds as a "fun hobby" but it's not going to turn into a livelihood for anyone starting out today, unless they have access to the capital to buy on the aftermarket AND the knowhow to make extremely shrewd picks. And if they have both, there are much easier ways to get rich...

I agree with your second paragraph Edwin. And by that reasoning it did not leave me with the impression that one can get rich quick. As a non-domain trader I found that interesting and not at all negative. I get the impression that the first mover advantages have long since past, and the wins for domainers who had the nouce to build their portfolios is now known to all. Big players are now in the market and ex-bankers and ex-gov types are grabbing the top jobs in the domain governance. It makes that stock of domains that people have invested in so much more valuable, and the threats of naive initiatives like direct.uk so much more irritating. It's good to hear domain-trading being discussed like art-dealing or car collecting. Yes it has become a much more sophisticated business with far less on the margin, but we can still dream of the big win on the clever investment. And I didn't hear the word 'scum' (Nominet's term) once.

 

[Edwin]

I agree with your second paragraph Edwin. And by that reasoning it did not leave me with the impression that one can get rich quick. As a non-domain trader I found that interesting and not at all negative. I get the impression that the first mover advantages have long since past, and the wins for domainers who had the nouce to build their portfolios is now known to all. Big players are now in the market and ex-bankers and ex-gov types are grabbing the top jobs in the domain governance. It makes that stock of domains that people have invested in so much more valuable, and the threats of naive initiatives like direct.uk so much more irritating. It's good to hear domain-trading being discussed like art-dealing or car collecting. Yes it has become a much more sophisticated business with far less on the margin, but we can still dream of the big win on the clever investment. And I didn't hear the word 'scum' (Nominet's term) once.

The problem is that the new GTLD are still being bandied around as an "opportunity" for late-comers, whereas the reality is they're just 1,000+ more ways for them to lose their shirts...

 

[domainseller200]

The problem is that the new GTLD are still being bandied around as an "opportunity" for late-comers, whereas the reality is they're just 1,000+ more ways for them to lose their shirts...

Spot on....

 

[Lucien Taylor]

Agree. Personally I think the whole gTLD thing is a crap idea, and .wales and all the other ideas coming from the non-entrepreneurs at ICANN and Nominet. More-of-the-same never worked in pop music and it won't work in the domain industry. It dilutes and divides the market into something that the public cannot recognise, and pulls in suckers to invest in domains like .london thinking that they will get rich quick. There will be blood

 

[Nigel]

I missed it! :sad:

It's at this link - 38mins in. Emily and Ian spoke well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02qt7vp

 

[Bailey]

Thanks Nigel.

Didn't really scratch the surface of anything though - apart from all being very pleasant. oh'well back to the regular domain publications for anything news worthy.

That's apart from I did hold a couple of 4 number .com's around 1999/2000 . (think I dropped them after a year) always painful when someone mentions something from past inventory

 

[julian]

I'm amazed how short sighted everyone is in this thread about the future of news name extensions, especially based on the way the world is changing - This is natural progress we need to adjust away from the romantic ideal that .com and .co.uk is the be all and end all.

We shouldn't complain about technological progress, things change, it must be the way that things become old fashioned and obsolete

Don't dream of the days where is was only .com, .net and .co.uk ..

No ones is doubting .com as the father but again we should not complain about natural changes in technology, but instead find a way to capitalise on these changes.

 

[Edwin]

I'm not sure anyone's complaining about the new GTLD. Not like they're complaining about direct.uk, anyway. There is a world of difference between declaring something a failure, and complaining about it.

No, people are saying that the new GTLD will be irrelevant. A ripple on the domain ocean, then gone, without "the general public" catching on. Just like any other third-rate pretender to the .com/.cctld throne up until now, basically.

Five groups stand to make money out of the wave of new GTLDs, but "newbie" domainers don't fit into any of them:
1) The registries. They only need small numbers of "believers" (in relative terms) to make a profit on their approx. US$500,000 investment per new GTLD (10,000 registrations at $50/year or 5,000 registrations at $100/year or whatever)

2) The registrars: they're quids in whatever people register

3) The very quickest first-movers who are able to swoop in, grab a few hyper-commercial terms, then flip them within the first couple of weeks or so before the shine has worn off (this happened in .mobi, .asia and other failed extensions but very very very few people made money even then - you can count the big-ticket sales on the fingers of one hand) by exploiting the "greater fool" theory

4) The lawyers: 1,000+ new opportunities for idiots to cybersquat brands

5) Owners of strong .com/.cctld domains (as soon as the dust dies down and people realise that owning a new GTLD gets you exactly nowhere because people look at you with a blank look on their faces every time you try and explain your site's URL to them)

NOTE: Just because some people make some money from something, that doesn't make that something a "success". Scams and pyramid schemes make money for some people, for example...

 

[julian]

This is where you and me differ :mrgreen:

I don't buy into this statement because reading between the lines your saying, in a nutshell, nothing will ever change, no one will 'get it' - .com forever..

owning a new GTLD gets you exactly nowhere because people look at you with a blank look on their faces every time you try and explain your site's URL to them

But what you really mean is you, your friends, your domainer buddies, all us old farts in the wrapped up in our world in lil' old blighty might have blank faces.

The old-skool era with big .com portfolios don't want anyone else to get it - I wonder why?

It will only take a few top brands to use use a .WTF, a .FAMILY, a .INFO, a .APP

.. if snickers can punt out #hungry what's next..

and that's it, because for you .co.uk domains are an almost a priestly, clinical obsession that must be presented in a certain format to be successful, but for tomorrows 16 year olds their just a means to an end.

(you're right - I should run for nom non-exec )

 

[Bailey]

I partly agree with you Julian, and I don't think Edwin is being particularly open.

Things are changing in the domain space There is more 'creativity' at work and advertisers and marketers are catching on fast. The domain extension these days is being seen as part of the message and that is not necessarily anything to do with the particular Country or purpose for which the extension was intended.

Its alright for some to say "what has some obscure country extension code got to do with an English word" ?? or as some would say on Acorn "it's an obvious mismatch" . But I'm of the firm belief that as the new extensions roll-out, this use of these type of domains will just get bigger and bigger, and at the penalty for those that try to believe and convince others its static ground.

In other words - The market is going to be far more flexible about what it sees as a good 'strap line domain' Countries with the 'appropriate' extensions that aid that market are already seeing the growth (that's mostly Countries with those letters just tag on nicely to the key word)

The new domain extension roll-outs will add to internet users perception of what makes an 'Appropriate' domain. Not what portfolio holders dictate should be appropriate.

If one hasn't seen the 'writing on the wall' by studying the available sales data (and importantly who's buying) then yes it will be a boat missed. It still takes all the skill to spot them and if your lucky find a rare good example available. But I'm at a loss why people believe everything in the domain-world is 'Cut and dried' with no where else for savvy investors to go as the landscape changes

 

[Rob_F]

I don't see the new gTLDs being an problem. I'm actually with the camp that thinks the new TLDs might actually increase sales/values.

There are hundreds of types of Cola yet everyone still drinks either Coke or Pepsi. .co.uk and .com are no different, they are established brands that are nationally/internationally recognised and trusted.

Sure, the likes of G and FB will make it work but for the average small/medium sized business with limited marketing budgets, they will stick with what they and everyone else knows - .com and/or .co.uk.

- Rob

 

[foz]

GLTDs with an exposure machine behind them will probably get traction. e.g. the Google extensions.

No GTLD can take the place of an official and sanctioned country code extension. That's been the reason for their success over the years not the companies behind them.