123-reg NEW Warning - scam £40 provider admin charge

[Bailey]

I'm pretty sure 123-regs T & C's cover it for Gtlds. and i'm not a 100 percent sure but looking at 123-reg's processing of gTLD'S I believe they act as 'Agents' not as the registration service itself - And therefore would mention that in their Blarb that they are subject to the Terms and Conditions of the US service provider. who incidently may be the ones that renewed the domain.

If the domain was in "true" redemption +42 days then $70 is the recovery fee

 

[Pred]

gtld is one thing

if 123 caught the .org.uk and had a fee not sure on that

all that aside they have pulled some real stunts over years, and there the ones I just know about!

 

[Bailey]

gtld is one thing

if 123 caught the .org.uk and had a fee not sure on that

all that aside they have pulled some real stunts over years, and there the ones I just know about!

It is mentioned as a .ORG and know you and I are both familiar with the Gtld process

(And he does mention an apparently 1 year renewal) So not an .org.uk on the face of it. Added to that Richard at 123 has given a fairly concise and readable explanation already - I've just noticed to the Gtld grace period (page 2)

 

[Pred]

.org changes it then
registrars have to pay a fee themselves

I am just used to people on acorn calling .org.uk '.org' through laziness

having any gtld at a .uk registrar is not wise as renewal costs are sky high compared to u.s etc
if you want it uk side then have on autorenew

however only makes sense having in uk if you think it is extremely valuable and possibly may get took at a wipo even though generic (which happens all time)

then when appeal it would go uk courts not u.s etc

 

[Bailey]

Credit where it's due

Richards explanation reads to me like 123-reg actually lose money on a Gtld recovery.

This may also explain where the £40 cock-up came when it was applied across the 123- data base. I won't make excuses for them they should have a test-data-base to apply/test code changes first

 

[123reg_suck]

Added to that Richard at 123 has given a fairly concise and readable explanation already - I've just noticed to the Gtld grace period (page 2)

I'm sorry, but you may have missed my point, and are defending the undefendable. 123reg renewed the domain for a further year. It's not actually in any 'so called' grace perdiod, thats a big fat lie by 123reg. It should have already been on the open market by then, but now is not due to officially expire until 2013 since they renewed it. Also unable to change the IPS tag and move the domain away at this point.

For those who want to read 123reg's blurb on the grace period, visit:

http://tinyurl.com/cdbuunf

They make no mention of the fact that they renew the domain for a year, waiting for you to pay them £40 instead of about £9.99. YES they renwed the domain to avoid them paying any high redemption fees themselves, so what you are saying is wrong. they say they are passing on this fee, but they renew the domain in advance of the domain reaching a grace period.

I have been told by a friend that after a further period of time, if the fee is not paid, the domains end up listed on an unrelated site for thousands of pounds (HugeDomains.com). 123reg state that they have no contact with hugedomains, but yet the domain is renewed by 123 and passed onto hugedomains. Explain that anyone?

 

[Bailey]

I am sorry to say but you "May" have got your facts wrong (Not intentionally) but you are subject to the Gtld renewal criteria for a .ORG domain

If you wish to PM (Private Message) the domain (and the relevant time-lines) to me I'm happy to spend a little bit of time giving you some help on this one - whatever you decide - all the Best

 

[123reg_suck]

I am sorry to say but you "May" have got your facts wrong (Not intentionally) but you are subject to the US renewal criteria.

If you wish to PM (Private Message) the domain to you I'm happy to spend a little bit of time giving you some help on this one - whatever you decide - all the Best

Thanks

I accept what your saying, and would like to know how 123reg renewing a domain for a further year without my permission meets US renewal criteria?

 

[Bailey]

Thanks

I accept what your saying, and would like to know how 123reg renewing a domain for a further year without my permission meets US renewal criteria?

It wasn't 123-reg that renewed the domain (or offered it for sale) but the US service provider that 123-reg use for Gtld domains

I am sorry for both you and your client - but if you put things in perspective, it's nothing more than a 'Parking ticket' for your oversight. (that's the £40) And you was given the maximum 45 days to renew at standard charge- (only 123 reg give that to my knowledge)

Trust me in the Gtld world, as in your local council run carpark - it is lawful.

And by comparison if you leave your car for 42+ days the local council will indeed sell you car to the highest bidder.

Fortunately "Nominet" our UK services for .co.uk etc haven't hit that low (hence the 92 days grace) AND more importantly NO (Internal) domain capture. And I appreciate you coming to terms with the way things are - so quickly - Who knows You may even want to change your user name if your staying around

 

[123reg_suck]

I am sorry for both you and your client - but if you put things in perspective, it's nothing more than a 'Parking ticket' for your oversight. (that's the £40)

Thanks for explaining. However the client specifically asked me to allow the domain to fully expire so he could himself regster it from his country when it was back on the open market. The domain name is so specific that no one else could possibly want it. now its registered for a whole year with reg123. The client is an Ethiopian church, which do not have the funds to pay £40.

you say its legal, I say its dishonest at the very least. They sit/cybersquat on the domain for a year, or possibly pass it on to another site like hugedomains.com to sell for thousands. how is that legal?

I know you have your perspective... a domain reseller yourself maybe, and are defending on that basis, but they rest of us are not happy with being treated this way, legal or not.

 

[Bailey]

The domain was obviously producing some 'traffic' or 'catchy' as a .org . For your client to ask you to let the domain drop - is just madness in the Gtld (or any domain) world (Domains are allowed to be retained in GTLD's by the registration service provider - That is NOT 123-reg.co.uk - even though they remain on 123-reg account profiles and servers)

If you go to your "Profile" section here at Acorndomains - there is a facility called "Private Messages"

If you send me the name of the domain in question (and more importantly date history) - I will give you an honest and upfront summary of "Whats happened". (Good or bad) You've spent a lot of time here at Acorn on this particular subject, and it clearly matters to you - So if we can reach a satisfactory outcome on this one I'll consider it worthwhile.

It is impossible to do anything but generalise when I don't know the domain and time-lines involved, all the best

 

[123reg_suck]

If you go to your "Profile" section Acorndomains - there is a facility called "Private Messages"

If you send me the domain in question (and date history) - I will give you an honest and upfront summary of "Whats happened". You've spent a lot of time here at Acorn on this particular subject, and it clearly matters to you - So if we can reach a satisfactory outcome on this one I'll consider it worthwhile.

It is impossible to do anything but generalise when I don't know the domain and time-lines involved, all the best

Thanks for the kind offer, and for taking time to explain, however, I prefer to stay anonymous on this forum. Have started complaints procedures elsewhere and see where that goes.

My client was no longer needed my services for web design since a content management system was employed, and wanted to renew the domain themselves. All domains I have are on auto-renew, but it was on the customers insistance that we allow this domain to drop. The name was no way going to be used by anyone else, the name was too specific to the client. Also it generated vert little traffic.

Just so we are clear... I have already made complaints to the relevant places, and provided them with full facts of what went on, so no need for further private advice, but many thanks.

 

[Bailey]

Apologise to the rest of Acorners for this subject taking over this thread - but if it educates a few it will be worthwhile

 

[Bailey]

Thanks for the kind offer, and for taking time to explain, however, I prefer to stay anonymous on this forum. Have started complaints procedures elsewhere and see where that goes.

Your choice - The "private message route" was your best free option

My advice is don't spend any money (outside of £40) on the recovery - because i'm sorry to say you ain't gonna win - but like me in this thread "you will also waste a lot of your time"

Added for members here
*Well I thought 123-reg occasionally deserve a bit of recognition and grace * They suited me for a few long years - And I started of with Easyspace.com like a few of us - Now lets admit they were hard and expensive times, certainly in the early days.

Acorners please remind me Never to talk domains with somebody that can't hit that 'openness button' i can almost picture the wording of the complaint (lots of Blanks)

 

[123reg_suck]

Your choice - The "private message route" was your best free option

My advice is don't spend any money (outside of £40) on the recovery - because i'm sorry to say you ain't gonna win - but like me in this thread "you will also waste a lot of your time"

Added for members here
*Well I thought 123-reg occasionally deserve a bit of recognition and grace * They suited me for a few long years - And I started of with Easyspace.com like a few of us - Now lets admit they were hard and expensive times, certainly in the early days.

Acorners please remind me Never to talk domains with somebody that can't hit that 'openness button' i can almost picture the wording of the complaint (lots of Blanks)

As I've said... I've made complaints to a couple of places, and I'll see how that goes. No money is being spent at all, it's free to make a complaint. The complaint took all of about 4 minutes to type, not really wasted time. Sorry you feel your time was wasted in defending 123reg.co.uk and their practices. but I feel others should know how 123reg.co.uk act towards me and my client.

The client has now already paid for another similar domain name at the cost of about £7. The issue is that 123reg registered the original domain name for themselves at a point when it should have be available on the open market. I have a right to make a complaint about this. .

Thanks for advice, but I'm also sorry that your attitude changed a little because I wasn't prepared to send you a PM. Not necessary at this stage to include your last sentence.

 

[Bailey]

No, your wrong. I was defending 123-reg in this particular instance because it was justified. And in fairness your Acorn user name suggests your not so open to "Internet fairness" yourself. I offered my help because I thought it may help you understand the .ORG (gtld)
registration/renewal/recovery/resale process

Yes the last *star message was to to the hundreds of Acorn members that you and I sidelined for a while - with nothing evidently explained or gained

 

[123reg_suck]

No, your wrong. I was defending 123-reg in this particular instance because it was justified. And in fairness your Acorn user name suggests your not so open to "Internet fairness" yourself. I offered my help because I thought it may help you understand the .ORG (gtld) registration/renewal/recovery/resale process

Thanks for your advice. and I've certainly taken your earlier posts onboard. My posts were in order to explain what happened to me and my client, and to warn others. I hope Acorn members as well as non members who land here will be forewarned.

Whilst I appreciate any offers of advice - as I've said - I've already submitted all the facts to the relevant places, and wouldn't want to "waste" your time duplicating my complaint emails to your PM inbox. They will be able to advise me from an impartial viewpoint, which is what I'm after.

Whether or not it was "justified" in this particular case would depend rather on the dates on when the domain should have been available to the open market again. Since you do not know the full facts and timline on this, you simply cannot make that statement; going on what I've related on this thread, you may find your advice not appropriate in "this particular instance", but only appropriate where a gtld domain was in fact truelly in a 'grace' state. Since the grace period had expired, I feel I have a complaint to make.

As for Internet fairness... the good thing about the Internet, is that clients like me are able to vent our frustrations about companies that act badly. Thats the way it goes... we can warn people about activities of companies like 123reg.co.uk.

Thanks again for your advice, all the best

 

[Bailey]

OK

all the best

 

[grantw]

Whether or not it was "justified" in this particular case would depend rather on the dates on when the domain should have been available to the open market again.

Why not give the dates then and you might get a proper answer????

This is taken from the faq at www.pir.org :

"When a domain name reaches its expiration date and is not renewed by the registrar, the .ORG registry system performs an auto-renew on the domain name. The auto-renew extends the expiration date for one year whether or not the registrar has received payment from the registrant."

"The registrar then has 45 days during which they may delete the registration and receive a credit for the registry fee."

What was the expiration date, when was it renewed and when did you pay the £40?

Grant

 

[Whois-Search]

you say its legal, I say its dishonest at the very least.

I think a few people in this thread need to read the rules on this...

Taken from the .org registry website:

12. Why is my registrar charging me to redeem my domain name through RGP?
PIR does not determine the fees that registrars charge their customers. However, the registrar incurs extra costs each time it invokes the RGP process. Registrars may charge a fee to restore a domain name through RGP at their discretion. You should contact your registrar to inquire about the fee being charged.

Source: http://www.pir.org/get/faq/grace#q10

Taken from the .org ICANN registrar agreement:

5. Restore Fee. Registrar shall pay PIR a fee (the “Restore Fee”) per Registered Name restored during the Redemption Grace Period; provided that PIR reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to lower such fee based on extenuating circumstances. The current Restore Fee as of the Effective Date is US$40 per Registered Name Restored.

Source: http://www.icann.org/en/about/agreements/registries/org/appendix-08-08dec06-en.htm

Then on top of that the domain may have been sold via a reseller:

Page 24 http://www.opensrs.com/docs/contracts/Services_Agreement.pdf

gTLD Redemption Fee………………$80.00

At the very least then 123-reg will be just about covering it's own RGP costs at £40.