EU Referendum

[Edwin]

I don't know where to start with this. I'll be glad when this vote business is over with regardless of what the result is. It's not bringing out our best side as a nation. Have fun. I'm out.

Me too. I'm done with this debate.

 

[websaway]

this is a great read for the people with the courage of self governance.
a small excerpt below.

"But the system of parliamentary democracy – under which we claim to live –is based on the idea that the choice of who governs is not a matter for experts,but for the people governed. Experts, when they nearly all agree – as with the Munich Agreement, ERM entry, the euro and now a Remain vote – are likely to be wrong, because they confuse their own interests and group-think with the general good."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...us-decision-next-week--but-not-a-terribly-di/

 

[dougs]

you probably know it's not wise to enter into debate on made up figures. The only vote you can rely on is your own. That's democracy, which comes with Sovereignty, which you don't care about , as you stated in your previous post.

these are not made up figures they are here from Yougov...the telegraph have made them prettier:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-britain-wants-to-leave-and-who-wants-to-rem/

 

[dougs]

Your rational seems to be elitist, ageist, patronising and presumptuous


To say 'the under 40's 'mostly' want to stay in is rubbish, the samples in the polls are so small and you would get a different results in each town or city you polled.

Read yougov stats...the telegrap have made them prettier:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-britain-wants-to-leave-and-who-wants-to-rem/


So most people who left school at 16 aren't clever enough to vote remain (as we all know you must be thick if you want to leave)? Plenty of highly successful people left school at 16.

Me included left school at 16

I think the uneducated and the poor will suffer more if we remain as a high proportion of unskilled labour jobs are being filled by migrants. There is the argument that British people don't want to do those jobs, but maybe this is because the wages have been driven down so low that they are caught in the benefits poverty trap and the cost of living is higher as they are not living 6+ adults in a 3 bedroom house like a lot of migrant workers are.

Except the UK has almost zero unemployment ( 5% ). 5% is viewed as almost perfect as it means their is enough people looking to fill roles, but almost enough roles to fil.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment


Except of course the thickies that didn't go to Uni

I admit I did go back to Uni....so I was probably a thickie and now not......Doug confused where he should vote


?

 

[dougs]

I love this game It is a shame about the insults on all sides, but please if you want to throw them at me be aware of my background so you make the assumptions correctly and get the insults correct

I came from a poor part of the country and went to an awful school
I left school at 16
I went back and studied and did a degree
I setup loads of companies for fun
I lived in numerous countries and hold 2 passports

So many things I can be called but not be able to have various views is not one of them as I have lived the world in many people's shoes...it has been fun.

If I just had been coloured and religious....I could be a rainbow

If we do leave I do have one big big hope that none of the clowns currently fronting the IN or LEAVE campaign has any power as that would be simple madness....if we thought many of them were incompetent and nasty people before this vote they have made it more obvious.

The mayor of Reykjavik after the meltdown was a comedian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/jon-gnarr-comedian-mayor-iceland

 

[dougs]

Me too. I'm done with this debate.

Come back Edwin please....share my think skin
You add quality and facts to the debate and that is much needed in any world...... shouting at you should not make you quiet, that makes the world a scary place when people like you stop commenting

 

[gimpydog]

Field Marshal Lord Charles Guthrie, former Chief of Defence Staff & defence 'expert' changes his mind & now backs brexit.

" was telephoned by a young military assistant in 10 Downing Street who, like Guthrie himself, had served in the SAS. Would he sign the letter No 10 had drafted? Guthrie agreed, partly out of a feeling of comradeship (he too is SAS). ‘I regret doing that. I think I made a mistake. Now I’ve thought about it some more.’"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rd-guthrie-why-i-now-back-the-leave-campaign/

 

[gimpydog]

Here's an interesting explanation of which countries are in which bits of the EU. I bet we all learn at least one new fact by watching it.

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What a tangled web they weave

 

[websaway]

these are not made up figures they are here from Yougov...the telegraph have made them prettier:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-britain-wants-to-leave-and-who-wants-to-rem/

Firstly , and don't take this as a slight because it's not meant to be.
I find that people who have travelled , who are cosmopolitan, have less interest in the demographics of their home nation, that results in not so much emphasise on the need for sovereignty.

I was between the age of 18 and 29 when I voted to join/remain in the EU. I am now a leaver, so I can only assume that we live and learn.

According to the poll it appears that the older and wiser you are, the more likely to vote leave. The more exposed you are ( east and west midlands ) to the negative impacts of immigration, the more likely you are to leave.

 

[dougs]

I love this game It is a shame about the insults on all sides, but please if you want to throw them at me be aware of my background so you make the assumptions correctly and get the insults correct

I came from a poor part of the country and went to an awful school
I left school at 16
I went back and studied and did a degree
I setup loads of companies for fun
I lived in numerous countries and hold 2 passports

So many things I can be called but not be able to have various views is not one of them as I have lived the world in many people's shoes...it has been fun.

If I just had been coloured and religious....I could be a rainbow

If we do leave I do have one big big hope that none of the clowns currently fronting the IN or LEAVE campaign has any power as that would be simple madness....if we thought many of them were incompetent and nasty people before this vote they have made it more obvious.

The mayor of Reykjavik after the meltdown was a comedian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/jon-gnarr-comedian-mayor-iceland

I have added to all your questions

 

[dougs]

Here's an interesting explanation of which countries are in which bits of the EU. I bet we all learn at least one new fact by watching it.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

What a tangled web they weave

Great simple video....so the question is if we leave where do we fit?

 

[websaway]

Come back Edwin please....share my think skin
You add quality and facts to the debate and that is much needed in any world...... shouting at you should not make you quiet, that makes the world a scary place when people like you stop commenting

I would love to hear his take on immigration. He has as we all know an analytical mind and is great with figures. Maybe he could tell us where we are going to put the inevitable new comers, enough to fill a city the size of Newcastle every year, or a city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years.

 

[dougs]

Firstly , and don't take this as a slight because it's not meant to be.
I find that people who have travelled , who are cosmopolitan, have less interest in the demographics of their home nation, that results in not so much emphasise on the need for sovereignty.

I was between the age of 18 and 29 when I voted to join/remain in the EU. I am now a leaver, so I can only assume that we live and learn.

According to the poll it appears that the older and wiser you are, the more likely to vote leave. The more exposed you are ( east and west midlands ) to the negative impacts of immigration, the more likely you are to leave.

I agree I have very little interest in the UK being the UK or soveriegnty...I am a member of the world and want to it move together faster...that is very much dictated from the world I have traveled in and seen. Creating tribes has always created problems, wether that be countries, religion etc.

I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave.

The immigration debate is I think simply misinformed...people are not upset with the white polish people, who are integrating very quickly..... but the none EU migrants are the ones they are upset about. This immigration problem though is not an EU one. And all options we have to leave the EU do not fix the immigration or Freedom of movement discussions.

I am a person who thrives on change and turmoil...so part of me feels excited if we leave. It is like when I was a kid and I liked setting fires in our house.......it was exciting even though the logical side of me said it was a bad idea

 

[dougs]

I would love to hear his take on immigration. He has as we all know an analytical mind and is great with figures. Maybe he could tell us where we are going to put the inevitable new comers, enough to fill a city the size of Newcastle every year, or a city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years.

Eu only accounts for 50% of immigrants though
43K of immigrants are family members from in and outside the EU.....so how does Farage get his target of 40K immigrants pa

 

[gimpydog]

The immigration debate is I think simply misinformed...people are not upset with the white polish people, who are integrating very quickly..... but the none EU migrants are the ones they are upset about.

That's not what I'm hearing. That is the 'establishment' view of the problem. Is it possible that it is you that is misinformed?

 

[dougs]

That's not what I'm hearing. That is the 'establishment' view of the problem. Is it possible that it is you that is misinformed?

Not the establishment view of the problem....my view and what I am hearing.....Poles don't create ghettos and they cross breed

Same as every other race that has landed in the UK

 

[gimpydog]

....Poles don't create ghettos and they cross breed
Same as every other race that has landed in the UK

OK. If you say so

When did "Polish" become a 'race'?

 

[websaway]

I agree I have very little interest in the UK being the UK or soveriegnty...I am a member of the world and want to it move together faster...that is very much dictated from the world I have traveled in and seen. Creating tribes has always created problems, wether that be countries, religion etc.

I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave.

The immigration debate is I think simply misinformed...people are not upset with the white polish people, who are integrating very quickly..... but the none EU migrants are the ones they are upset about. This immigration problem though is not an EU one. And all options we have to leave the EU do not fix the immigration or Freedom of movement discussions.

I am a person who thrives on change and turmoil...so part of me feels excited if we leave. It is like when I was a kid and I liked setting fires in our house.......it was exciting even though the logical side of me said it was a bad idea

You hedged your bets a bit with this statement .
"I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave."

I don't think you are right regarding EU whites, they are taking jobs and accommodation and driving wages down ( the minimum wage has become the maximum wage ) If men lives 3 to a room and share a car, a man with a family a mortgage and children can't compete when quoting a wage for his services.

By leaving we gain control over the government, and it's policy on immigration, we take control of our immigration policy, then it's up to us.

Most people unlike you don't adapt well to change, that's probably why the remain could win.

As far as setting your childhood house on fire, I'll not comment.

 

[dougs]

OK. If you say so

When did "Polish" become a 'race'?

View attachment 1212

Lets call them Eastern European white people then

 

[websaway]

Not once have I heard anybody explain how we are going to cope with mass uncontrolled immigration, not once.
Ask a left wing politician how we are going to accommodate an increase in immigration the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years and without exception the response is that, we have x amount of foreign nationals working in the health service, or, you are more likely to be treated by an immigrant than be in bed next to one in a hospital, or if all else fails, that is a far right or racist thing to say and that is what is causing a divisive society.
Why can't they simply engage seriously with the question.