EU Referendum

[websaway]

these are not made up figures they are here from Yougov...the telegraph have made them prettier:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-britain-wants-to-leave-and-who-wants-to-rem/

Firstly , and don't take this as a slight because it's not meant to be.
I find that people who have travelled , who are cosmopolitan, have less interest in the demographics of their home nation, that results in not so much emphasise on the need for sovereignty.

I was between the age of 18 and 29 when I voted to join/remain in the EU. I am now a leaver, so I can only assume that we live and learn.

According to the poll it appears that the older and wiser you are, the more likely to vote leave. The more exposed you are ( east and west midlands ) to the negative impacts of immigration, the more likely you are to leave.

 

[dougs]

I love this game It is a shame about the insults on all sides, but please if you want to throw them at me be aware of my background so you make the assumptions correctly and get the insults correct

I came from a poor part of the country and went to an awful school
I left school at 16
I went back and studied and did a degree
I setup loads of companies for fun
I lived in numerous countries and hold 2 passports

So many things I can be called but not be able to have various views is not one of them as I have lived the world in many people's shoes...it has been fun.

If I just had been coloured and religious....I could be a rainbow

If we do leave I do have one big big hope that none of the clowns currently fronting the IN or LEAVE campaign has any power as that would be simple madness....if we thought many of them were incompetent and nasty people before this vote they have made it more obvious.

The mayor of Reykjavik after the meltdown was a comedian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/jon-gnarr-comedian-mayor-iceland

I have added to all your questions

 

[dougs]

Here's an interesting explanation of which countries are in which bits of the EU. I bet we all learn at least one new fact by watching it.

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What a tangled web they weave

Great simple video....so the question is if we leave where do we fit?

 

[websaway]

Come back Edwin please....share my think skin
You add quality and facts to the debate and that is much needed in any world...... shouting at you should not make you quiet, that makes the world a scary place when people like you stop commenting

I would love to hear his take on immigration. He has as we all know an analytical mind and is great with figures. Maybe he could tell us where we are going to put the inevitable new comers, enough to fill a city the size of Newcastle every year, or a city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years.

 

[dougs]

Firstly , and don't take this as a slight because it's not meant to be.
I find that people who have travelled , who are cosmopolitan, have less interest in the demographics of their home nation, that results in not so much emphasise on the need for sovereignty.

I was between the age of 18 and 29 when I voted to join/remain in the EU. I am now a leaver, so I can only assume that we live and learn.

According to the poll it appears that the older and wiser you are, the more likely to vote leave. The more exposed you are ( east and west midlands ) to the negative impacts of immigration, the more likely you are to leave.

I agree I have very little interest in the UK being the UK or soveriegnty...I am a member of the world and want to it move together faster...that is very much dictated from the world I have traveled in and seen. Creating tribes has always created problems, wether that be countries, religion etc.

I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave.

The immigration debate is I think simply misinformed...people are not upset with the white polish people, who are integrating very quickly..... but the none EU migrants are the ones they are upset about. This immigration problem though is not an EU one. And all options we have to leave the EU do not fix the immigration or Freedom of movement discussions.

I am a person who thrives on change and turmoil...so part of me feels excited if we leave. It is like when I was a kid and I liked setting fires in our house.......it was exciting even though the logical side of me said it was a bad idea

 

[dougs]

I would love to hear his take on immigration. He has as we all know an analytical mind and is great with figures. Maybe he could tell us where we are going to put the inevitable new comers, enough to fill a city the size of Newcastle every year, or a city the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years.

Eu only accounts for 50% of immigrants though
43K of immigrants are family members from in and outside the EU.....so how does Farage get his target of 40K immigrants pa

 

[gimpydog]

The immigration debate is I think simply misinformed...people are not upset with the white polish people, who are integrating very quickly..... but the none EU migrants are the ones they are upset about.

That's not what I'm hearing. That is the 'establishment' view of the problem. Is it possible that it is you that is misinformed?

 

[dougs]

That's not what I'm hearing. That is the 'establishment' view of the problem. Is it possible that it is you that is misinformed?

Not the establishment view of the problem....my view and what I am hearing.....Poles don't create ghettos and they cross breed

Same as every other race that has landed in the UK

 

[gimpydog]

....Poles don't create ghettos and they cross breed
Same as every other race that has landed in the UK

OK. If you say so

When did "Polish" become a 'race'?

 

[websaway]

I agree I have very little interest in the UK being the UK or soveriegnty...I am a member of the world and want to it move together faster...that is very much dictated from the world I have traveled in and seen. Creating tribes has always created problems, wether that be countries, religion etc.

I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave.

The immigration debate is I think simply misinformed...people are not upset with the white polish people, who are integrating very quickly..... but the none EU migrants are the ones they are upset about. This immigration problem though is not an EU one. And all options we have to leave the EU do not fix the immigration or Freedom of movement discussions.

I am a person who thrives on change and turmoil...so part of me feels excited if we leave. It is like when I was a kid and I liked setting fires in our house.......it was exciting even though the logical side of me said it was a bad idea

You hedged your bets a bit with this statement .
"I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave."

I don't think you are right regarding EU whites, they are taking jobs and accommodation and driving wages down ( the minimum wage has become the maximum wage ) If men lives 3 to a room and share a car, a man with a family a mortgage and children can't compete when quoting a wage for his services.

By leaving we gain control over the government, and it's policy on immigration, we take control of our immigration policy, then it's up to us.

Most people unlike you don't adapt well to change, that's probably why the remain could win.

As far as setting your childhood house on fire, I'll not comment.

 

[dougs]

OK. If you say so

When did "Polish" become a 'race'?

View attachment 1212

Lets call them Eastern European white people then

 

[websaway]

Not once have I heard anybody explain how we are going to cope with mass uncontrolled immigration, not once.
Ask a left wing politician how we are going to accommodate an increase in immigration the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years and without exception the response is that, we have x amount of foreign nationals working in the health service, or, you are more likely to be treated by an immigrant than be in bed next to one in a hospital, or if all else fails, that is a far right or racist thing to say and that is what is causing a divisive society.
Why can't they simply engage seriously with the question.

 

[dougs]

You hedged your bets a bit with this statement .
"I would suggest the older and less adaptable to change the less the more you want to leave."

I don't think you are right regarding EU whites, they are taking jobs and accommodation and driving wages down ( the minimum wage has become the maximum wage ) If men lives 3 to a room and share a car, a man with a family a mortgage and children can't compete when quoting a wage for his services.

By leaving we gain control over the government, and it's policy on immigration, we take control of our immigration policy, then it's up to us.

Most people unlike you don't adapt well to change, that's probably why the remain could win.

As far as setting your childhood house on fire, I'll not comment.

Minimum wage has increased over the past few years:
https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Agree that many people living in a house compared to family is different, but we have almost zero unemployment ( 5% which is efffectively zero ) so there is work and there is a min wage. The issue is that each party needs a different amount to live on, but as time progress's these 3 men get families....this issue has been going on since the war with each wave of new immigrants.

By leaving we don't gain control of immigration, we just think we will. If we leave we have to conform to some trade agreement with the EU like Norway and the EU has a position that anyone who trades properly with the EU muts pay to be allowed to play and must allow freedom of movement. We can create our own trade rules and stop freedom of movement, but that is a very hard road to recreate and will take years and be an economic nightmare.

I think it is illogical for most people to leave due to the 5-10 year economic turmoil that will be created, people also believe that a few months after we leave the sun will shine more, when it does not they will be more annoyed and think they have been sold a dead puppy. Thus creating more mayhem that the masses of people will blame on others.

The only argument I find makes sense is to accept the UK will be in turmoil for 5-10 years, but it will be our turmoil and we will accept the blame. If we were planning for turmoil and embrace it to create a new Europe, then I would be very pro LEAVE, but no one is saying that....there is not even any idea of which plan would be executed.

I am actually quite excited as I was when I used to be when I set fires in our house

 

[websaway]

Eu only accounts for 50% of immigrants though
43K of immigrants are family members from in and outside the EU.....so how does Farage get his target of 40K immigrants pa

He can't do it, I was listening to the interview and it was embarrassing.
We certainly won't get immigration down to the 10's of thousands. But we can look at what is the maximum amount of immigration we can cope with and then implement policies to address the situation. We need immigrants, but we need to know how many and who they are and where they come from and why they are here. Your one world is a great ambition, but it's living in dreamland. We don't live in a world where people reason with each other, there will always be bandits and rebels who's ambitions thrive on laughing at civil society. It would be so expensive to police an open world that it just isn't possible. The world is different, warfare is different, and I believe if you can, you look to seek self determination, and if you want to create peace and harmony it should start at home before trying to export to the world what you have not even achieved ourselves.

 

[Mark84]

Switzerland declare's only "a few lunatics" would vote to join and withdraws it's application to the EU.

www.liveleak.com/view?i=4dd_1466262628

 

[websaway]

Minimum wage has increased over the past few years:
https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Agree that many people living in a house compared to family is different, but we have almost zero unemployment ( 5% which is efffectively zero ) so there is work and there is a min wage. The issue is that each party needs a different amount to live on, but as time progress's these 3 men get families....this issue has been going on since the war with each wave of new immigrants.

By leaving we don't gain control of immigration, we just think we will. If we leave we have to conform to some trade agreement with the EU like Norway and the EU has a position that anyone who trades properly with the EU muts pay to be allowed to play and must allow freedom of movement. We can create our own trade rules and stop freedom of movement, but that is a very hard road to recreate and will take years and be an economic nightmare.

I think it is illogical for most people to leave due to the 5-10 year economic turmoil that will be created, people also believe that a few months after we leave the sun will shine more, when it does not they will be more annoyed and think they have been sold a dead puppy. Thus creating more mayhem that the masses of people will blame on others.

The only argument I find makes sense is to accept the UK will be in turmoil for 5-10 years, but it will be our turmoil and we will accept the blame. If we were planning for turmoil and embrace it to create a new Europe, then I would be very pro LEAVE, but no one is saying that....there is not even any idea of which plan would be executed.

I am actually quite excited as I was when I sued to set fires in our house

In time these three men get families and then 3 replace them so the problem exists indefinitely. That's precisely the nub of the problem.
If what you say happened , as would be the case with asylum seekers, then you can absorb it into the system.
In my scenario though every time you cope with 300,000 another 300,000 follow on ad infinitum.

I don't share your view about turmoil on a Brexit.

 

[dougs]

Not once have I heard anybody explain how we are going to cope with mass uncontrolled immigration, not once.
Ask a left wing politician how we are going to accommodate an increase in immigration the size of Birmingham every 3 to 4 years and without exception the response is that, we have x amount of foreign nationals working in the health service, or, you are more likely to be treated by an immigrant than be in bed next to one in a hospital, or if all else fails, that is a far right or racist thing to say and that is what is causing a divisive society.
Why can't they simply engage seriously with the question.

This is a valid point and I honestly do not know, but leaving the EU does not fix it......

180K of immigrants pa come from the EU and they economically are a benefit...so this is not a money issue...they easily pay into society financially and I would also add that they are good for society as they bring diversity etc and integrate quickly.

The other 180K pa come from else where in the world and that is not decided by the EU but by the UK government....these contribute less financially to the economy. These I would say is what people are generally concerned about....but again this is not an EU issue.

The issue I feel has been compounded as many people have suffered under the cost cutting measures since 2008 and people are looking for someone to blame and that has become the influx of immigrants, rather than maybe the banking and large corporate machines...that will not change IN or OUT

 

[Mark84]

Just for anyone doubting his motivations http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

Sorry but without a sound mental evaluation, I'm not sure anyone can judge his motivations.

Hate just breads more hate hope the IMPORTANT topic of immigration can be debated sensibly over the final week instead of resorting to crap like this

I wasn't aware the picture was fake!if that is what you are claiming, looks dam real to me.

The trouble with your stance is that you and people like you told us that Farage was dangerous when he said how many Poles would come, then only a few years ago you dismissed him when he said how many Romanian's would come.

Then it turns out he was right right and right and others were continuously wrong.

 

[Mark84]

rather than maybe the banking and large corporate machines...that will not change IN or OUT

Maybe Doug the bankers are setting the migrants to take the blame? Keep throwing people in until something snaps. I hope that people don't blame migrants but unfortunately when resources get few, they will ultimately turn on them. That's human nature and maybe we are being played by higher powers? We can have sustainable immigration with Brexit or a breaking point were people get hurt with remain.

 

[looks]

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