.UK Brand

[cc976a]

OK - I've seen multiple threads and now must be close to 1,000 posts on the .uk issue.

I haven't been following this too heavily, although get the gist of what's going on.

I own a couple of developed sites in which other UK extensions are older but currently unused / parked.

If I (or Joe Bloggs business down the road) owned a .co.uk and spent a lot of money investing in the domain and business as a brand - under new Nominet proposals would that mean an older .org.uk would instantly take the .uk even if it could be proved it wasn't being used and either just parked or up for sale??

Also - and this is a question that has me a little stumped - what happens to the .co.uk - still continues but just that the new .uk works alongside.......and if this is the case why, with many extensions come on the market, do we think that Joe Public will start instantly thinking .uk instead of .co.uk and .com as they always have?

 

[Systreg]

If I (or Joe Bloggs business down the road) owned a .co.uk and spent a lot of money investing in the domain and business as a brand - under new Nominet proposals would that mean an older .org.uk would instantly take the .uk even if it could be proved it wasn't being used and either just parked or up for sale??

Yes, that's what Nominet have in mind, the oldest registration from co.uk, org.uk, me.uk, ltd.uk, plc.uk and net.uk gets the .UK

Also - and this is a question that has me a little stumped - what happens to the .co.uk - still continues but just that the new .uk works alongside

Yes, there would be .co.uk and .uk operating alongside each other owned by different people in many instances, and causing mass confusion in UK name space, not to mention the heightened incidences of fraud that will occur due to it.

 

[Stephen]

Have to apply to win .uk

..If I (or Joe Bloggs business down the road) owned a .co.uk and spent a lot of money investing in the domain and business as a brand - under new Nominet proposals would that mean an older .org.uk would instantly take the .uk even if it could be proved it wasn't being used and either just parked or up for sale?.....

The older registered extension would have to apply to obtain the .uk domain,
if the oldest registered domain does not apply and any other .uk tld does at the end of 6 months from the launch,
the oldest domain that registered would obtain the .uk domain.

If this point is not adjusted, then I fear lots of people will simply believe
they will be given the .uk at the end of 6 months and do nothing.

Also .sch.uk is a qualifying UK tld, although there is a bit of confusion as Whois says it is not allowed registration at the 3rd level,
so cannot have an equivalent string to move to 2nd level.

 

[Retired_Member38]

If this point is not adjusted, then I fear lots of people will simply believe they will be given the .uk at the end of 6 months and do nothing.

I'm sorry but this point is just bizarre. These are business owners you're talking about, not 5 year old kids. If anyone knows about the .uk thing then are more than capable of reading it and understanding it.

I could understand someone saying "but they won't hear about it at all and they'll lose out".... but its crazy to think people are going to read it, completely fail to understand it, then lose out. Thats just not going to happen.

 

[websaway]

I'm sorry but this point is just bizarre. These are business owners you're talking about, not 5 year old kids. If anyone knows about the .uk thing then are more than capable of reading it and understanding it.

I could understand someone saying "but they won't hear about it at all and they'll lose out".... but its crazy to think people are going to read it, completely fail to understand it, then lose out. Thats just not going to happen.

The public have to be protected, particularly where conflicts of interest are so prevalent.

 

[Systreg]

I could understand someone saying "but they won't hear about it at all and they'll lose out".... but its crazy to think people are going to read it, completely fail to understand it, then lose out. Thats just not going to happen.

Some people seem not to understand it and even report it incorrectly:

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/uk-do...ions-nominet-their-answers-15.html#post454762

 

[Retired_Member38]

"Under the plans businesses that own existing domain names rooted at '.uk' would have a "right of first refusal" to secure a '.uk'-only domain name. Nominet said the new regime would offer improved security."

Its sloppily worded, but it is correct. Some businesses on .uk will get a right of first refusal. What they omitted is that some won't.

 

[topcat]

OK, so I've just been watching this from afar.

I can see why they want to move to .uk from .co.uk but why don't they simply replace .co.uk with .uk?

If it really is the new .co.uk and the place to be.

 

[Stephen]

Sloppy indeed!

"Under the plans businesses that own existing domain names rooted at '.uk' would have a "right of first refusal" to secure a '.uk'-only domain name. Nominet said the new regime would offer improved security."

Its sloppily worded, but it is correct. Some businesses on .uk will get a right of first refusal. What they omitted is that some won't.

Sloppy indeed!

Take another example in Nominet Questions and answers, skip the "may" at your peril, I would wonder if non domainers would understand the implications?

Question :

I am interested in a .co.uk domain name for my business. Should I wait​

Answer:

There is no reason to wait or not to register a .co.uk domain- they are trusted and popular, and our proposal is not to replace, but to complement the registrations that already exist

If you buy a domain name now, you may find that in addition to the domain name, you will also have a right of refusal on the corresponding second level domain. If this is important to you, and you would wish to take up a second level registration if available in future, you can check the status of your proposed domain by looking on the WHOIS remembering to check all of the options under the .uk family.​

Also as regards communication, please visit A great place to be .co.uk and see what advise Nominet is giving to new registrants there about .uk?


When you find how easy it is to see .uk implications at http://www.agreatplacetobe.co.uk/ and explain them to me please,
I will then apologise about being mistaken about Nominet lack of commitment to let the non domainers know what they need to know to protect their UK domain investment.

 

[Sound]

If everyone is so pro protecting small businesses then how do you explain the fact that so many on this forum have sold domains to end users in the last six months with the threat of .uk planned by Nominet but have never once explained this to the end user businesses buying your domains.

I have yet to see a domain portfolio owner with a warning on their website.

You can not have it both ways.

 

[Stephen]

Does that excuse Nominet?

If everyone is so pro protecting small businesses then how do you explain the fact that so many on this forum have sold domains to end users in the last six months with the threat of .uk planned by Nominet but have never once explained this to the end user businesses buying your domains.

I have yet to see a domain portfolio owner with a warning on their website.

You can not have it both ways.

Point made.

But does that excuse Nominet from not letting people registering or buying
(there is a point on their agreatplacetobe website about buying a uk domain, if you cannot register it)
uk domains from not disclosing the situation about .uk fully.

Nominet surely should be leading and setting the best code of conduct for the industry to follow.

I don't know about the last 6 months being so relevant as Nominet did not have a live proposal for the .uk, until 1st July (barely a week ago).

Each seller will have there own moral code of how to deal with the situation.

On Monday, I sold a .co.uk domain which would not automatically be entitled to the .uk
(which is one of the 3% of my uk domains for sale that fall into that category)
and advised them of that before they agreed to buy it, they still bought it.

Maybe the UK registrars should be involved with an awareness campaign?

Maybe Sedo, Domain lore other sellers should be encouraged to put a notice up?

I for my part have requested Nominet make it easier to check, who will be entitled to the .uk,
rather than not mentioning it some places and when they do it is either not complete
and it is time consuming to do 6 separate Whois searches on the same string.

 

[Jamie101]

Point made.

But does that excuse Nominet from not letting people registering or buying
(there is a point on their agreatplacetobe website about buying a uk domain, if you cannot register it)
uk domains from not disclosing the situation about .uk fully.

Nominet surely should be leading and setting the best code of conduct for the industry to follow.

I don't know about the last 6 months being so relevant as Nominet did not have a live proposal for the .uk, until 1st July (barely a week ago).

Each seller will have there own moral code of how to deal with the situation.

On Monday, I sold a .co.uk domain which would not automatically be entitled to the .uk
(which is one of the 3% of my uk domains for sale that fall into that category)
and advised them of that before they agreed to buy it, they still bought it.

Maybe the UK registrars should be involved with an awareness campaign?

Maybe Sedo, Domain lore other sellers should be encouraged to put a notice up?

I for my part have requested Nominet make it easier to check, who will be entitled to the .uk,
rather than not mentioning it some places and when they do it is either not complete
and it is time consuming to do 6 separate Whois searches on the same string.

Well done for being honest with the end users.

Since Nominet employees seem to read up on Acorn a good bit, feel free to get in touch with me if you'd like my code for the program I made to check who has the oldest .uk domain. Posted it on my blog earlier today (link in sig). I don't even want a penny for it

 

[Stephen]

Plain English

Well done for being honest with the end users....

Some UK domain sellers did make supreme efforts informing potential clients about .uk Version 1 proposal.
For V1 I preferred to wait for the outcome and make the effort to contact old clients.
Each person will do it there own way and it may not be perfect in each case but at least an effort would have been made to look after clients.

What, I would not want to do is put Nominet's statement on my terms and conditions:

If you buy a domain name now, you may find that in addition to the domain name, you will also have a right of refusal on the corresponding second level domain. If this is important to you, and you would wish to take up a second level registration if available in future, you can check the status of your proposed domain by looking on the WHOIS remembering to check all of the options under the .uk family.

As I don't think it would explain the position about .uk to the client in a way they could understand?

 

[retired_member34]

Also - and this is a question that has me a little stumped - what happens to the .co.uk - still continues but just that the new .uk works alongside.......and if this is the case why, with many extensions come on the market, do we think that Joe Public will start instantly thinking .uk instead of .co.uk and .com as they always have?

I'm puzzling over just this. I recently bought an llll.co.uk which I plan to build a business around. It will be ecommerce based, but the domain will be advertised on leaflets, newspaper ads and even on vans. I'll be spending money on building a local brand in effect.

The corresponding llll.org.uk predates my .co.uk. It is a website for a totally different business (a guest house). I didn't care that there was a business operating on the org.uk when I bought the co.uk.

Why should I care if they now start operating on the .uk instead?

 

[Stephen]

protect your brand

I'm puzzling over just this. I recently bought an llll.co.uk which I plan to build a business around. It will be ecommerce based, but the domain will be advertised on leaflets, newspaper ads and even on vans. I'll be spending money on building a local brand in effect.

The corresponding llll.org.uk predates my .co.uk. It is a website for a totally different business (a guest house). I didn't care that there was a business operating on the org.uk when I bought the co.uk.

Why should I care if they now start operating on the .uk instead?

If .uk gets traction in the mind of web users in the UK (over time - maybe a year maybe 5) as habits changed from seeing http://www.LLLL.co.uk to just llll.co.uk then they may adjust to
llll.uk as .co.uk currently makes up approx. 95% of web traffic in the UK of UK domains.
So .uk will be the new .co.uk, shinny new and more desirable, with the old .co.uk being seen as old and antiquated.

So if they don't find you at .uk they assume your no longer trading or relate you to a second rate business as minds do now, if they see llll.biz.

It is all hypothetical but in business, I find that you are safer to protect your brand and not take the chance, that I'm wrong.

 

[Stephen]

Risk and Costs?

My wife is in exactly the same situation as you and we've discussed this over and over and have come to the conclusion that from a business point of view, you shouldn't care. If you get past the domainer mentality then it's largely irrelevant. If the owner of the .uk starts trying to pass themselves off as you then you have the protection of DRS.

It MIGHT be an issue for a huge company but for most small businesses direct.uk isn't a threat.

Compare the cost of £5 pa for the .uk protection even if you just redirect to your .co.uk to avoid rebranding costs.

Compared to several hundred pounds in costs of DRS and the massive amount of time it would take to put the case together and maybe even external fees.

Often small businesses become big businesses, it is just sensible in my opinion to make the small investment in .uk rather than run the potential extra time costs and lost business if you don't have it.

 

[retired_member34]

Compare the cost of £5 pa for the .uk protection even if you just redirect to your .co.uk to avoid rebranding costs.

That's not the question here. If I could have picked up the .org.uk also I would have (and I think Sean is in the same position). If I could get the .uk then I would also, £5pa is inconsequential to any business.

The question is should I care about trading on a .co.uk when there could be another business trading on the .uk?

Given that I (and others) didn't care about the fact that there is another business trading on the .org.uk, why care about another business on the .uk?

 

[Stephen]

That's not the question here. If I could have picked up the .org.uk also I would have (and I think Sean is in the same position). If I could get the .uk then I would also, £5pa is inconsequential to any business.

The question is should I care about trading on a .co.uk when there could be another business trading on the .uk?

Given that I (and others) didn't care about the fact that there is another business trading on the .org.uk, why care about another business on the .uk?

First point, if the rules of distribution were different, say .co.uk automatically gets the .uk, if you believe that is a better option,
then let Nominet know via the Consultation form.

http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1276711/Nominet-Consultation-for-registration-at-the-second-level

Last time there were only 1,000 respondents, this time unless there is a shift there will be lot less,
so it doesn't take many people to communicate the same message to make an impact.

Secondly, Nominet have for the last 10 years been marketing .org.uk for non-commercial organizations,
and I believe that is what most people think, when they come across a .org.uk website.
So for a business with .co.uk, .org.uk should not offer much of a threat for lost traffic or security issues.

Whereas lastly .uk offer a real threat to .co.uk businesses, as .uk being seen as superior and will become principally a business domain,
regardless of what Nominet say its purpose is for (which I'm still not sure what it is).

Its not to say you cannot trade as .co.uk against a .uk, just will probably make it harder.

I liken to if you currently traded as ski-places.co.uk and somebody came along with skiplaces.co.uk
you would find it difficult but not impossible to compete but if they had ski-places.org.uk you might not notice.

 

[websaway]

That's not the question here. If I could have picked up the .org.uk also I would have (and I think Sean is in the same position). If I could get the .uk then I would also, £5pa is inconsequential to any business.

The question is should I care about trading on a .co.uk when there could be another business trading on the .uk?

Given that I (and others) didn't care about the fact that there is another business trading on the .org.uk, why care about another business on the .uk?

Think about the reasons you didn't care about an org.uk trading with the same name. The main one is that it's at a disadvantage because it's advertising itself as a not for profit business.
Enter .uk, you have to surmise as to the eventual landscape but my bet is that you would be at a disadvantage without it.

 

[cc976a]

If .uk gets traction in the mind of web users in the UK (over time - maybe a year maybe 5) as habits changed from seeing http://www.LLLL.co.uk to just llll.co.uk then they may adjust to
llll.uk as .co.uk currently makes up approx. 95% of web traffic in the UK of UK domains.
So .uk will be the new .co.uk, shinny new and more desirable, with the old .co.uk being seen as old and antiquated.

So if they don't find you at .uk they assume your no longer trading or relate you to a second rate business as minds do now, if they see llll.biz.

It is all hypothetical but in business, I find that you are safer to protect your brand and not take the chance, that I'm wrong.

There is of course the chance that business owners buy up the .uk and just redirect it to their .co.uk and the shift doesn't occur. It would take many (many) companies to rebrand and remarket, of which I just can't see the benefit - which I'm sure they couldn't either.

I have to say I'm seeing .co appear more than I thought I would. Where businesses are using the similarity to .co.uk to drive UK traffic - if it's happened to .co then it could happen to the .uk ..... but as much as I can't see .co taking over, I can't see the .uk either (even though only one is a UK extension).

I agree with everyone's view that a .uk serves no purpose and would only serve to confuse. Potentially two companies trading under the same name across two commercial orientated .uk domains - how under any circumstances could this be good for the UK namespace and UK business?

It clearly isn't and can't, and can only be explained away as a very easy way to double revenue on domain sales whilst everyone purchases the new extension to protect their business and in some cases brand.