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Wanted: Domain Appraisal searchengineoptimisation-seo/co/uk
- Thread starter Edwin
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I'm not feeling this one at all Edwin. IMO it's marginally better than
searchengine-optimisation-seo.co.uk
Which is free to reg, but that's about the best thing I could say about it.
searchengine-optimisation-seo.co.uk
Which is free to reg, but that's about the best thing I could say about it.
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Ok, I'll explain why I was excited about it 
NOTE: I am not trying to change anyone else's mind - this isn't about being "right" or "wrong" as an appraisal is always subjective. But I thought it might perhaps be good to share a bit of background to this domain...
In SEO, there are two generally interchangeable terms: "SEO" and "search engine optimisation". Indeed (very importantly) Google itself automatically equates the two terms (and Bing does too!), so if you search for "SEO" it will also bold "search engine optimisation" in the search results, and vice-versa. Google will even bold both alternatives inside the URL portion of the search results.
A lot of websites that I have seen tackle the interchangeability of the terms by using "Search Engine Optimisation (SEO)" as a prominent reference in TITLE and H1 tags at least, and probably in several other places as well. The closest domain name that maps to that is the one I just caught...
... and therefore it should help the Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) process for any eventual site that gets developed on the domain name since the URL contains both terms in the "natural" order, and nothing else - and therefore both variants will automatically figure in every incoming link to that site.
At the same time, Google certainly dislikes sites with MULTIPLE hyphens, so my 1 hyphen is probably the most that it's "safe" to go with in such a competitive field.
On top of that, Google should "light up" the entire URL in the search results any time it shows up against EITHER "search engine optimisation" OR "SEO". That makes it stand out more effectively against competing sites.
Furthermore, as my PPC study showed, having the exact-match search terms within the URL itself can help with Adwords CTR rates, etc so again it's well-positioned for bids relating to either "search engine optimisation" or "SEO" as the URL line will be "fully lit" when bidding against either.
There's a huge mountain to climb in between, but I figured that just about the ONLY way to crack the SEO SERPS (probably the toughest competition of any search terms, since the competitors are all "in the biz") is to start from this kind of URL and build a compelling site on top of it.
Can't promise the compelling site, but at least the foundation is set strong and level...
NOTE: I am not trying to change anyone else's mind - this isn't about being "right" or "wrong" as an appraisal is always subjective. But I thought it might perhaps be good to share a bit of background to this domain...
In SEO, there are two generally interchangeable terms: "SEO" and "search engine optimisation". Indeed (very importantly) Google itself automatically equates the two terms (and Bing does too!), so if you search for "SEO" it will also bold "search engine optimisation" in the search results, and vice-versa. Google will even bold both alternatives inside the URL portion of the search results.
A lot of websites that I have seen tackle the interchangeability of the terms by using "Search Engine Optimisation (SEO)" as a prominent reference in TITLE and H1 tags at least, and probably in several other places as well. The closest domain name that maps to that is the one I just caught...
... and therefore it should help the Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) process for any eventual site that gets developed on the domain name since the URL contains both terms in the "natural" order, and nothing else - and therefore both variants will automatically figure in every incoming link to that site.
At the same time, Google certainly dislikes sites with MULTIPLE hyphens, so my 1 hyphen is probably the most that it's "safe" to go with in such a competitive field.
On top of that, Google should "light up" the entire URL in the search results any time it shows up against EITHER "search engine optimisation" OR "SEO". That makes it stand out more effectively against competing sites.
Furthermore, as my PPC study showed, having the exact-match search terms within the URL itself can help with Adwords CTR rates, etc so again it's well-positioned for bids relating to either "search engine optimisation" or "SEO" as the URL line will be "fully lit" when bidding against either.
There's a huge mountain to climb in between, but I figured that just about the ONLY way to crack the SEO SERPS (probably the toughest competition of any search terms, since the competitors are all "in the biz") is to start from this kind of URL and build a compelling site on top of it.
Can't promise the compelling site, but at least the foundation is set strong and level...
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The hyphens point, I do not personally believe that google has an issue with two hyphens. Beyond that though, yes possibly. I think it's more that people don't tend to want to develop two hyphen sites. Ones with effort put into them like online-betting-guide.co.uk , seem to do very well indeed.
As for your main point, yes Google does highlight and connect the terms in such a way, but I think it's an unknown to say that using them both together in a domain name provides some kind of advantage. It's certainly possible, but I think it's a bit of a reach. I would advise getting a few inbound links to see if your positivity pans out, but they are both such competitive terms.
You do present some interesting ideas here though. Maybe you can prove people wrong on this one.
As for your main point, yes Google does highlight and connect the terms in such a way, but I think it's an unknown to say that using them both together in a domain name provides some kind of advantage. It's certainly possible, but I think it's a bit of a reach. I would advise getting a few inbound links to see if your positivity pans out, but they are both such competitive terms.
You do present some interesting ideas here though. Maybe you can prove people wrong on this one
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Fair play, but given that very few people are searching for the complete phrase [search engine optimisation seo] I don't see how this name would benefit you in organic SERPs any more than any other name that contained the same terms in that order - eg like the free to reg one in my answer above.
[search engine optimisation] 33,000
[seo] 60,000
[search engine optimisation seo] 590
The exact match effect just won't kick in for this name any more than it would for homeloans-mortgages.co.uk (FTR) or any other name made up of strings of related terms.
Also, I can't see any SEO company worth the label using this as their company URL given it's a mix up of hyphenated and unhyphenated terms.
Like you say though, everyone's opinion is different, so that may be the case here.
[search engine optimisation] 33,000
[seo] 60,000
[search engine optimisation seo] 590
The exact match effect just won't kick in for this name any more than it would for homeloans-mortgages.co.uk (FTR) or any other name made up of strings of related terms.
Also, I can't see any SEO company worth the label using this as their company URL given it's a mix up of hyphenated and unhyphenated terms.
Like you say though, everyone's opinion is different, so that may be the case here.
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Ty, your example has 2 hyphens. All other things being equal, 2-hyphen domains are definitely harder to SEO for than 1-hyphen domains.
I am also curious to see how Google would treat the URL given that it is already treating the terms within it automatically as synonyms (which wouldn't be the case for homeloans-mortgages.co.uk, as a search for "home loans" or "mortgages" readily proves)
Aside: I'm not planning to sell it - I'm going to be putting a site on it, hopefully within a couple of months if I can find a bit of spare time. Should be a fun challenge trying to carve out a tiny slice of a tough niche.
I am also curious to see how Google would treat the URL given that it is already treating the terms within it automatically as synonyms (which wouldn't be the case for homeloans-mortgages.co.uk, as a search for "home loans" or "mortgages" readily proves)
Aside: I'm not planning to sell it - I'm going to be putting a site on it, hopefully within a couple of months if I can find a bit of spare time. Should be a fun challenge trying to carve out a tiny slice of a tough niche.
As far as the argument on PPC its not my strength but exact matches tend to reduce click costs because they are clicked on more. Thus increasing the quality score. IE SEO.co.uk would be clicked on more by a user than say searchengineoptimsation-seo.co.uk I would doubt that even though, all lit up, it would get more traffic than other names in PPC clickthroughs. Say someone has searched for "search engine optimisation seo" i would think they would still click on seo.co.uk before the hyphen.
Google won't see that name as an "exact match" name in its organic results and the longer the domain name, the less power its exact match capabilities have.
The reason that companies use "search engine optimisation - SEO" in their titles is because of course they want to rank for those two terms SEPARATELY and independently in search. On my title for say an iva site it would be something like "iva, advice on ivas etc etc" this is very common but doesnt make iva-ivaadvice.co.uk or iva-debtconsolidation.co.uk a good name from an seo standpoint.
Lastly, getting links to it will tend to be tougher than to a good generic due to the length and hyphen placement within the name, it doesnt demand credibility. As such, that negates any possible advantage of having both seo and search engine optimisation in the title. It looks like an attempt to manipulate keywords in a domain for ranking and as such would raise a red flag to most good seos. Sites like dmoz and hand edited decent directories wont like it as it looks a bit spammy. (though dmoz is near impossible to get into anyway)
You fly the flag for strong generics and their value in both credibility, brandability and search, this doesnt tick any of those boxes and to me more underlines why stronger generics are worth the fees.
Not being critical, just my opinion.
I would doubt that even though, all lit up, it would get more traffic than other names in PPC clickthroughs. Say someone has searched for "search engine optimisation seo" i would think they would still click on seo.co.uk before the hyphen.Google won't see that name as an "exact match" name in its organic results and the longer the domain name, the less power its exact match capabilities have.
The reason that companies use "search engine optimisation - SEO" in their titles is because of course they want to rank for those two terms SEPARATELY and independently in search. On my title for say an iva site it would be something like "iva, advice on ivas etc etc" this is very common but doesnt make iva-ivaadvice.co.uk or iva-debtconsolidation.co.uk a good name from an seo standpoint.
Lastly, getting links to it will tend to be tougher than to a good generic due to the length and hyphen placement within the name, it doesnt demand credibility. As such, that negates any possible advantage of having both seo and search engine optimisation in the title. It looks like an attempt to manipulate keywords in a domain for ranking and as such would raise a red flag to most good seos. Sites like dmoz and hand edited decent directories wont like it as it looks a bit spammy. (though dmoz is near impossible to get into anyway)
You fly the flag for strong generics and their value in both credibility, brandability and search, this doesnt tick any of those boxes and to me more underlines why stronger generics are worth the fees.
Not being critical, just my opinion.
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Some more very good points.
Just to clear up a bit of confusion, I'm not interested (except tangentially) in being able to rank for the search phrase "search engine optimisation seo". I am however interested in being able to improve my chances of being able to rank for "search engine optimisation" and long-tail variants, and also rank for "seo" and long-tail variants (but those are two separate families of search terms).
Because both root search expressions ("seo" and "search engine optimisation") each get lots of searches, and because Google treats both search expressions equivalently, I picked up the domain to hopefully get a bit of an SEO leg up.
Of course seo/co/uk would be better (much, much better!) for credibility, PPC and so on. But I am discussing this in the real world not in the abstract, so when you see who owns seo/co/uk the domain name might as well not even exist in terms of its availability (i.e. it is 100% unattainable). That doesn't make its theoretical value any less (it's HUGELY valuable) just in practice I already dismissed it out of hand because it couldn't be bought, even if I wanted to.
I also think the domain I picked up probably makes a very poor "resale" name for all the reasons raised in previous posts. This time though, I wasn't catching to sell (it doesn't fit my normal pattern of clean, hyphenless best-match generics) but to develop
Anyway, this has been a brilliant discussion - lots of very intriguing points raised. Please keep the ideas flowing!
Just to clear up a bit of confusion, I'm not interested (except tangentially) in being able to rank for the search phrase "search engine optimisation seo". I am however interested in being able to improve my chances of being able to rank for "search engine optimisation" and long-tail variants, and also rank for "seo" and long-tail variants (but those are two separate families of search terms).
Because both root search expressions ("seo" and "search engine optimisation") each get lots of searches, and because Google treats both search expressions equivalently, I picked up the domain to hopefully get a bit of an SEO leg up.
Of course seo/co/uk would be better (much, much better!) for credibility, PPC and so on. But I am discussing this in the real world not in the abstract, so when you see who owns seo/co/uk the domain name might as well not even exist in terms of its availability (i.e. it is 100% unattainable). That doesn't make its theoretical value any less (it's HUGELY valuable) just in practice I already dismissed it out of hand because it couldn't be bought, even if I wanted to.
I also think the domain I picked up probably makes a very poor "resale" name for all the reasons raised in previous posts. This time though, I wasn't catching to sell (it doesn't fit my normal pattern of clean, hyphenless best-match generics) but to develop
Anyway, this has been a brilliant discussion - lots of very intriguing points raised. Please keep the ideas flowing!
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for ppc purposes yes may get better ctr but only margainly, plus those that are searching for seo would know difference between seo and ppc thus knowing that any decent seo company would appear in natural results and not have to ppc the term.
Second, if your a company wanting to buy a domain, the amount of effort in seo that will be needed to appear page 1 is loads and so if the company is good enough they would either a) buy a expensive domain b) use a company brand.
thus i feel £0
Second, if your a company wanting to buy a domain, the amount of effort in seo that will be needed to appear page 1 is loads and so if the company is good enough they would either a) buy a expensive domain b) use a company brand.
thus i feel £0
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Thanks for all of that.
How would you rank the domains that an seo firm could choose? If they were trying to SEO for "search engine optimisation" but also for "SEO".
My list would look something like this:-
1. seo/co/uk
2. searchengineoptimisation/co/uk
------
3. search-engine-optimisation/co/uk
------
4. searchengineoptimisation-seo/co/uk
5. seo-searchengineoptimisation/co/uk
There is a wide gap in "native" value between #1 and #2, probably a wider gap between #2 and #3, and then anything below that only has value for its potential in use as an actual website, and the SEO benefits it would bring when doing so.
I'd love to see what other domains you think should go on that list, and where they'd rank!
How would you rank the domains that an seo firm could choose? If they were trying to SEO for "search engine optimisation" but also for "SEO".
My list would look something like this:-
1. seo/co/uk
2. searchengineoptimisation/co/uk
------
3. search-engine-optimisation/co/uk
------
4. searchengineoptimisation-seo/co/uk
5. seo-searchengineoptimisation/co/uk
There is a wide gap in "native" value between #1 and #2, probably a wider gap between #2 and #3, and then anything below that only has value for its potential in use as an actual website, and the SEO benefits it would bring when doing so.
I'd love to see what other domains you think should go on that list, and where they'd rank!
To put. searchengineoptimisation/co/uk. into the url as well as .seo/co/uk
..................................... Mine looks like this .....................................
........................................... seourl/co/uk .....................................lol.
700+under £100
@sedo
Ian
..................................... Mine looks like this .....................................
........................................... seourl/co/uk .....................................lol.
700+under £100
@sedo
Ian
www.mortgagecalculator-loans all extensions free to reg two of the biggest financial terms. Just doesnt work like this, there will be thousands of better examples.
you can still register the .org of your name in a world of thousands of top seos looking for the ideal seo domain for their business.
Trying to rank for search engine optimisation and SEO is a little ambitious by anyones standards. Dont think its a smart game plan to try, though if you did that name wouldnt figure on my list, let alone 4th.
My names would be
seo.co.uk, com, net, org, org.uk
searchengineoptimisation.co.uk com,net,org,org.uk
after that im not bothered, and would go for a good 2 worder like seocompany or a branded name.
Exact match bonuses are given because Google assumes that the name is valuable,rare, registered early most likely and hard to come by and thus most likely to have a good site on it. when they started giving .info domains away, they destroyed any chance of getting an exact match bonus.
There are two many variables of names like yours to make them valuable and as such they carry less weight. Send an email to any good seo with [email protected] and it probably goes straight in the bin
Only my opinions which is domains are so subjective.
you can still register the .org of your name in a world of thousands of top seos looking for the ideal seo domain for their business.
Trying to rank for search engine optimisation and SEO is a little ambitious by anyones standards. Dont think its a smart game plan to try, though if you did that name wouldnt figure on my list, let alone 4th.
My names would be
seo.co.uk, com, net, org, org.uk
searchengineoptimisation.co.uk com,net,org,org.uk
after that im not bothered, and would go for a good 2 worder like seocompany or a branded name.
Exact match bonuses are given because Google assumes that the name is valuable,rare, registered early most likely and hard to come by and thus most likely to have a good site on it. when they started giving .info domains away, they destroyed any chance of getting an exact match bonus.
There are two many variables of names like yours to make them valuable and as such they carry less weight. Send an email to any good seo with [email protected] and it probably goes straight in the bin
Only my opinions which is domains are so subjective.
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It wil be interesting to see how you get on with this name.
If it catches on I'm having Televisions-TVs.com & co.uk for starters !
If it catches on I'm having Televisions-TVs.com & co.uk for starters !
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If it catches on I'm having Televisions-TVs.com & co.uk for starters !
Google doesn't equate TVs and televisions. If you search for one, the other doesn't get highlighted.
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My name won't get an exact match bonus. But it will get a (smaller than exact match) bonus for having the keyphrase inside the domain name rather than in the part after the domain name.
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