John Terry

[Bailey]

Great News, shouldv'e never got there

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18827915


This case is going to be dissected (Big time) and so it should be

 

[BREWSTERS]

If someone called me a 'white c*nt', would I be able to take them to court for racism? Not that I'd want to - I'd take offence but at the noun, not at the adjective.

Also, if you described someone as 'dark' or 'coloured', they would take offence and say that they are 'black'...so calling someone a 'black c*nt' - why is the adjective the problem here?

 

[newguy]

If someone called me a 'white c*nt', would I be able to take them to court for racism? Not that I'd want to - I'd take offence but at the noun, not at the adjective.

Also, if you described someone as 'dark' or 'coloured', they would take offence and say that they are 'black'...so calling someone a 'black c*nt' - why is the adjective the problem here?

I guess it's the context in which it was used, rather than the word black. I can see where they're coming from but in my view the case is misguided.

As crappy a person John Terry seems to be, I don't like this trend of hauling people before the courts because they may or may not have spouted distasteful views. It seems like a waste of time. For the most part racist views are, thankfully, seen as a sign of a lack of intelligence nowadays, so there is already a social penalty for spouting such nonsense.

I'm not saying that laws that protect people in relation to difference are always a bad idea, simply that these laws only tend to be used when views have changed within society anyway, and as such they are then past their point of usefulness. The only problem occurs where there is absolutely no social or legal penalty for rounding on vulnerable or marginalised groups with malice. We should always be careful not to let that happen.

The same applies to these twatty twitterers. Sure if someone posts a direct threat, I think the police should be called, but not if someone is vulgar or offensive. They take action because its so easy for them to do so. Easier than serious policing.

 

[mally]

I think the police have enough on the plate with 20% cuts than to "someone posts a direct threat"

 

[Pred]

The same applies to these twatty twitterers. Sure if someone posts a direct threat, I think the police should be called, but not if someone is vulgar or offensive. They take action because its so easy for them to do so. Easier than serious policing.

agreed with that

however, from what i've seen on this case Terry got away with murder, again

cole was stood right next to Terry when he shouted those words, yet claimed he heard nothing
the footage is there to be seen

if you're famous with loads of money, you will get away with it 99% of the time

Terry's parents are thieves and drug dealers. he himself is a cheat, even cheating on best friends with their partners, he's a liar and a compulsive gambler amongst many other things
he also got away with that court case years back when attacking that doorman
he sickens me on sight and everything he is about

 

[Pred]

one of the defence's argument's that he's always in control
LOL

 

[Pred]

Great News, shouldv'e never got there

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18827915


This case is going to be dissected (Big time) and so it should be

I would normally say when someone found innocent in a court, that's it
decision has been made

but when we have seen the evidence, and clearly there is no time for Terry to say 'did you think I say' before
he just laughs, than says 'yeah?, ay..... you fucking black cxxx' 'fucking knobhead'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo.../What-John-Terry-said-to-Anton-Ferdinand.html
then walks off
Cole heard what he said, he's right near him, but would side with his hero JT and teammate out of a misplaced loyalty

If he was being sarcastic or trying to ask if he thought ferdinand thought he said it, then ferdinand must have at least posed the question, which he says on oath he didn't
and no footage to suggest Ferdinand did
AND THIS is the key point the trial should have hung on, and it didn't
If for a second he heard Terry say that he would have probably ran up him and gone mad or at least brought it up with him at end of game.
Terry had to think quick as he knew cameras everywhere and tried a bit of damage limitation and arse covering end of game by calling him into dressing room

as soon as Terry started mentioning he has worked with African charities via teammates and kick racism out of football (which they all have to do, as laughable as it now seems) he was covered of being 'a racist'
I'm not saying he is a card carrying edl member or anything but racist comments are uttered amongst racist people, he wouldn't I'm sure be stupid enough to do in front of his character referees anytime as they would be appalled

the magistrate bottled it i think and I'm no lawyer maybe he felt it would just get appealed and overturned

all the references and charity mention was a whitewash, like the 'lipreading experts' saying it's only 60-80% etc.

I'm not deaf or a lipreading expert but I have common sense and I also have the same accent and know exactly what he said and HOW he said it
it wasn't posed as a question it was thrown as an insult


bottomline court has said they see Ferdinand as a man of integrity and reliable witness
however they must believe that he lied about saying he didn't pose the question about BC to Terry
and must believe Terry on what he said even though the footage says otherwise

all in all an expected farce. the most damaging thing is we have an ex england captain, so the highest position in playing football, a figurehead in the kick racism out of football being a racist and getting away with it

it is probably amongst the worst racist insult you could give

lastly Ferdinand had to be very brave to testify, he weven got bullets sent through the post and threats
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...n-the-post-ahead-of-Chelsea-FA-Cup-match.html
he had nothing to gain apart from unwanted attention and legal bills and possible attacks but went on principle

I am pretty disgusted but not surprised by the outcome

 

[newguy]

pred - It's not that I disagree with anything you've said, but in cases such as this I don't think people think down to such a meta level. I think the answer is much more straightforward - and it's that some of those on the jury simply do not believe that someone should be jailed for saying what he said. In the states they call it jury nullification, meaning that although people think that a person is/may be guilty of a crime they choose a not guilty verdict because they disagree with the law itself.

Believe me, as much if not more than most people, I hate prejudice of all kinds, but the fact of the matter is that on occasion in everyday life, and even on this forum, people say things that are just as bad as Terry's comments. When someone does, do I mentally wipe them off the list of people I will give time of day to? Yes. Do I think they should be imprisoned though? No, not really, unless they deliver a threat of some kind. I prefer that people come to their senses as a result of peer pressure, rather than the legal system. I'm not big on involving the government in aspects of life where it can be avoided.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I'll say it again...if Ferdinand had called Terry a 'white c*nt', nothing would've happened.

So why is it that througout all this, the problem was not with calling him a c*nt (which technically, he isn't), but by using an adjective which was technically accurate? Which leads me to think that racism will persist whilst people decide to take offense at certain words; sometimes they want you to use it, and sometimes they'll take you to court for doing so.

Scots call English people 'English c*nts' all the time. Should that be illegal? Hell no...

And what about use of the 'n' word? That just takes the piss.

 

[Pred]

appreciate your thoughts newguy
again I am no legal expert myself
tbh I am not sure there was even a jury for this type of offence
thought just a magistrate presides over it, that's why he gave his verdict rather than asking a jury
I think a well balanced jury would have found otherwise, may have got them to sign they weren't qpr or chelsea fans before, lol

also max sentence is a fine, £2500, no imprisonment

Terry has just pissed off on holiday avoiding preseason training. isn't life a hoot!

 

[Pred]

I'll say it again...if Ferdinand had called Terry a 'white c*nt', nothing would've happened.

So why is it that througout all this, the problem was not with calling him a c*nt (which technically, he isn't), but by using an adjective which was technically accurate? Which leads me to think that racism will persist whilst people decide to take offense at certain words; sometimes they want you to use it, and sometimes they'll take you to court for doing so.

Scots call English people 'English c*nts' all the time. Should that be illegal? Hell no...

And what about use of the 'n' word? That just takes the piss.

bizarre post I have to say, you're normally bang on with stuff but.......... ahem

people have got done for racism over gypsy, welsh comments etc
you'd have to ask a legal expert I am sure probably the same rules apply tbh
banter is one thing and is fine with friends but aggressive insults to strangers etc is another
but I am guessing being white you have never experienced any racist abuse?
now find me any man or woman in this country who is asian or black who has never experienced racist abuse or comments.
you won't find one
therein lies the problem. still

 

[anthony]

agreed with that

however, from what i've seen on this case Terry got away with murder, again

cole was stood right next to Terry when he shouted those words, yet claimed he heard nothing
the footage is there to be seen

if you're famous with loads of money, you will get away with it 99% of the time

Terry's parents are thieves and drug dealers. he himself is a cheat, even cheating on best friends with their partners, he's a liar and a compulsive gambler amongst many other things
he also got away with that court case years back when attacking that doorman
he sickens me on sight and everything he is about

That post gets my vote, I can't stand the sight of the guy!

 

[BREWSTERS]

bizarre post I have to say, you're normally bang on with stuff but.......... ahem

people have got done for racism over gypsy, welsh comments etc
you'd have to ask a legal expert I am sure probably the same rules apply tbh
banter is one thing and is fine with friends but aggressive insults to strangers etc is another
but I am guessing being white you have never experienced any racist abuse?
now find me any man or woman in this country who is asian or black who has never experienced racist abuse or comments.
you won't find one
therein lies the problem. still

Gypsy, Welsh - I've never heard of any cases. I wonder how many times Ryan Giggs or Robbie Savage have been called 'sheep shagger' on the pitch? Must be thousands.

My point, which maybe I'm not making too well, is that in certain circumstances black people insist on being called black (as opposed to brown, coloured etc) but other times take great offense at being called black. Likewise, if a black person says ni**er, it's fine - anyone else does it and it's not. Surely if something is offensive, then it must be offensive whoever says it? If not, then it's a choice to be offended based on the other person's colour - which is inherently racist in itself.

-------------

BTW, I'm not defending that wanker Terry - good defender but a total wanker!

 

[namealot]

Its not just racism but also intimidation and bullying... Is it right to call your workers or colleges a derogatory term would you expect the milkman to greet your mother by calling her a f ***ing wh*** your children’s teachers to call them fing thick b*stard when the get a question wrong..? If you believe those are ok then you will side with Mr. Terry and see nothing wrong with what he said if not then you won’t...

 

[BREWSTERS]

Its not just racism but also intimidation and bullying... Is it right to call your workers or colleges a derogatory term would you expect the milkman to greet your mother by calling her a f ***ing wh*** your children’s teachers to call them fing thick b*stard when the get a question wrong..? If you believe those are ok then you will side with Mr. Terry and see nothing wrong with what he said if not then you won’t...

By all accounts there was name calling from both parties.

 

[Bailey]

If you read the judges comments - even she is not denying what Terry said But, that the words we're said in a moment of anger between the two and therefore did not carry the weight of the type of "racist onslaught" that the law was there to protect. Terry didn't lash out with a knife or something in his armoury that was a premeditated - he replied to taunts and insults thrown at him - in an instant. And who hasn't done that.

She was basically saying that any common sense - could see this was not a "Racist Crime" which is what he would have been found guilty off - This is a good outcome for common sense No matter what you think of John Terry as a person

 

[droid]

If Rio's publicist hadn't have poked his/her nose in it probably wouldn't have made the court anyway.

I don't like either party in this but for once I agree with Blatter, what is said on the pitch stays on the pitch. (within reason)

Gary

 

[Pred]

If Rio's publicist hadn't have poked his/her nose in it probably wouldn't have made the court anyway.

I don't like either party in this but for once I agree with Blatter, what is said on the pitch stays on the pitch. (within reason)

Gary

just to correct you,an offduty cop reported it to police and they were compelled to act under existing laws that's why it made court
could have been anyone who reported it in effect though

also why should it stay on the pitch?
I have often wondered how when someone walks up to another player and punches them in face why it's only a football league matter
it's a public place watched by millions of people , many impressionable kids who need sometimes guidance on what is and is not acceptable

I don't want to live in a politically correct namby pampy world same as anyone else, but the bs coming from all sides is staggering in this case

they are playing at the highest level and have big responsibilities. hopefully if nothing else the only good that will come out of this is players may behave better if for nothing more than self preservation

 

[Pred]

the other thing which I think has annoyed everyone is why did it take a week?
and why wasn't it dealt with straight away instead of dealying for after euros and before season?

bloody lawyers getting their 30 pieces of silver
could have been dealt with in a day, easy
wasn't a bloody murder enquiry
football clubs should have paid for all costs happened on their watch, not taxpayer

 

[BG]

John Terry = RACIST

In my opinion a "GUILTY" or "NOT GUILTY" verdict still results in John Terry being a Racist, simples.

Excuse the pun but regardless of John Terry saying the words in anger his true colours came out... he could have called him a c*nt, a fucking c*nt, your mums a sl*g, i f*cked ya sister (that's poss, lol) a number of different abuse terms, yet the fact he decided to bring colour in to the war of words shows his inner workings and bullying mentality towards other races imo.... his name will be mud for many years to come and it will haunt him and his family now for the rest of his life, and rightfully so.

He will now have to dodge the FA bullet which will bring it all up again Zzzzzzzzzz