DRS scenario

[retired_member11]

I was wondering if a DRS might be appropriate in the following circumstances?

A domain is registered to a party with Rights (under DRS Policy definition) to a mark the same or similar to the domain. Another party with Rights to the same mark, but trading in an entirely different market to the registrant - i.e. different goods and services- asks the registrant if the domain is available to purchase. The reply from the registrant is that it is available, the purchase price being GBP x,xxx. Is that 'abusive' under the DRS Policy? I'm not sure.

 

[retired_member6]

Why do you mention drs? they enquired you told them, what's abusive?

 

[tmsdomreg]

I was wondering if a DRS might be appropriate in the following circumstances?

A domain is registered to a party with Rights (under DRS Policy definition) to a mark the same or similar to the domain. Another party with Rights to the same mark, but trading in an entirely different market to the registrant - i.e. different goods and services- asks the registrant if the domain is available to purchase. The reply from the registrant is that it is available, the purchase price being GBP x,xxx. Is that 'abusive' under the DRS Policy? I'm not sure.

My initial thoughts are that it isn't abusive - because the Registrant is using/has the name "correctly" within his rights, and the would-be Registrant would be entitled to the name (if it was freely available) within *his* rights.

I have to add, though, that I'll be interested to read other more DRS-experienced contributors responses, because I'm by no means experienced in this area.

Peter

 

[retired_member6]

The person asking is being abusive by asking if it's for sale, bugger 'em. Nothing to worry about surely? it's like the old bill setting up a person and expecting the charge to stick.

 

[tmsdomreg]

The person asking is being abusive by asking if it's for sale, bugger 'em. Nothing to worry about surely? it's like the old bill setting up a person and expecting the charge to stick.

Hi Lee - but that's what I don't understand - what's abusive about enquiring if a domain name is for sale? The current Registrant may consider selling if the price he gets is attractive enough. Maybe business is bad and a good sum for a replaceable domain name might get them out of a jam

Peter

 

[retired_member11]

The point is does having Rights allow the registrant to run across the similar Rights of the potential buyer by asking for a sum greater than their out-of-pocket expenses?

I can see that the registrant is able to sell to a party without Rights without it being at all abusive under DRS, but what about to a party WITH Rights?

 

[retired_member11]

The person asking is being abusive by asking if it's for sale, bugger 'em. Nothing to worry about surely? it's like the old bill setting up a person and expecting the charge to stick.

Yes, but they could simply say that the domain isn't for sale. However, they ask for GBP x,xxx. A police set up is perhaps the creation of false evidence, but here the registrant did quote a price in excess of their out-of-pocket expenses.

 

[retired_member6]

The rules are crap and don't make sense, every registration is abusive if the silly people at nominet don't realise a domain is an asset, out of pocket expenses is ridiculous. Just ignore it but I'm sure someone will give you a better answer.

Say they do drs you, just keep all documents and state in defence what their game was all along. Quote what you feel is right or simply say what I say "domains are a part of my business, I may sell before development if I feel the cost is equal or more to the cost of development or possible revenue gained thereafter." Ask them to make an offer or if you're that worried get them to sign a bit of paper syaing they won't drs you if you state an amount but saying that gives them knowledge of such a proceadure.

Just say what you want for it, keep all evidence and use it against them if they try it on.

 

[retired_member6]

Yes, but they could simply say that the domain isn't for sale. However, they ask for GBP x,xxx. A police set up is perhaps the creation of false evidence, but here the registrant did quote a price in excess of their out-of-pocket expenses.

Yes argonaut but they made you say it by enquiring, they asked and they got an answer, just dress up your response as if you don't want to sell but BECAUSE THEY ARE ASKING you told them what it's worth to you as a company and as an ongoing asset vital and valuable to company operations either now or in the future.

 

[tmsdomreg]

The point is does having Rights allow the registrant to run across the similar Rights of the potential buyer by asking for a sum greater than their out-of-pocket expenses?

I was not aware that domain name values were limited to out of pocket expenses - so long as both parties have their individual rights to the name within DRS interprestation, surely the price is something that can be mutually agreeable to each party.

I have the family-name.co.uk - and under normal circumstances wouldn't part with it. But if someone was to make me an offer I couldn't refuse....

I can see that the registrant is able to sell to a party without Rights without it being at all abusive under DRS, but what about to a party WITH Rights?

As I understand the case in this instance, *both* parties have equal rights, albeit under different types of Goods/Services.

Peter

 

[retired_member11]

I was not aware that domain name values were limited to out of pocket expenses - so long as both parties have their individual rights to the name within DRS interprestation, surely the price is something that can be mutually agreeable to each party.

I have the family-name.co.uk - and under normal circumstances wouldn't part with it. But if someone was to make me an offer I couldn't refuse....



As I understand the case in this instance, *both* parties have equal rights, albeit under different types of Goods/Services.

------------------------

Yes they *both* have Rights, and so can one party offer to sell to the other for more than their documented out-of-pocket expenses and not be commiting an 'abuse', or can they only offer to sell to a party without rights on those terms?

 

[tmsdomreg]

Yes they *both* have Rights, and so can one party offer to sell to the other for more than their documented out-of-pocket expenses and not be commiting an 'abuse', or can they only offer to sell to a party without rights on those terms?

As far as I am aware, yes. (I'll have to do some research on this).

To my mind it would be like polo .co.uk (the car) being approached by polo (the aftershave), both with equal TM rights but in different fields, asking "do you really want the name - what would you accept to transfer it to us?" - and the current Registrant asking a "fair and equitable" price (taking into account the investment/return).

Peter

 

[rob]

Problem is they can then whip out a DRS, show they have rights, and that there is intent to sell the name therefore abusive.

Voila

Need to be careful

 

[tmsdomreg]

Question re-this thread

Surely there would be more a danger of a DRS if the current registrant had no rights to the name and the would-be-registrant did - particularly if the name was parked or not being used for what was perceived by the DRS to be a legitimate purpose?



Peter

 

[retired_member6]

Problem is they can then whip out a DRS, show they have rights, and that there is intent to sell the name therefore abusive.

Voila

Need to be careful

No they can't. If they acted in a bad manner it can be proved that without them asking the question the rules wouldn't perceive it to be abusive, it's a set up, you see how bloody silly it is?

How much would you sell your car for? £6k oh that's abusive haha that nominet rule is bloody stupid. Ignore it.

 

[retired_member6]

And now we're into legitimate purpose, I read the rules to mean blackmail to an oppo or current company, no one says parking is abusive or trying to sell it is abusive or putting a high unrealistic price on a domain because you don't raelly want to sell it, even if you do wnat that amount before considering selling it. ignore 'em.

And as you said you have rights as well, just state an offer, it all seems rather weird you asking the question, nominet have said domaining is ok, parking is ok and trading in domains is ok so what part is abusive, they need to sort their rules out, two heads... one mouth.

 

[tmsdomreg]

And now we're into legitimate purpose, I read the rules to mean blackmail to an oppo or current company, no one says parking is abusive or trying to sell it is abusive or putting a high unrealistic price on a domain because you don't raelly want to sell it, even if you do wnat that amount before considering selling it. ignore 'em.

And as you said you have rights as well, just state an offer, it all seems rather weird you asking the question, nominet have said domaining is ok, parking is ok and trading in domains is ok so what part is abusive, they need to sort their rules out, two heads... one mouth.

Nominet = "... Circumstances indicating that the Respondent has registered or otherwise acquired the Domain Name primarily:

A. for the purposes of selling, renting or otherwise transferring the Domain Name to the Complainant or to a competitor of the Complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of the Respondent's documented out-of-pocket costs directly associated with acquiring or using the Domain Name;..."

As the current Registrant has TM or Rights within the terms of the DRS, I cannot see how it could be proved the name was registered *primarily* for the "abusive purposes" above.

The fact that it was not the current registrant, approaching the second party and offering to sell the name, should also be in their favour.

However, the more I look into DRS the more I agree there are many grey areas that require special attention and clearer guidance.

Peter

 

[retired_member6]

The above question didn't need asking, you aint done nothing wrong, quote a price if they don't like it tell 'em where the window is. drs worries too many people and is hyped up, they approached you and you respond that isn't abusive, everyone will sell most things at the right price, ask a solicitor how much they sell their time for, at cost or at profit?

 

[newbie]

Does this mean that simply listing your domains on Sedo/Namedrive as potentially for sale means they were abusive registrations?

If not, then why not tell them to make their offer to SEDO/Namedrive?

 

[Paullas]

The above question didn't need asking, you aint done nothing wrong, quote a price if they don't like it tell 'em where the window is. drs worries too many people and is hyped up, they approached you and you respond that isn't abusive, everyone will sell most things at the right price, ask a solicitor how much they sell their time for, at cost or at profit?

that is an interesting point you have..