Drop Lists Implementation Working Group Roundtable

[webber]

The .UK Registry Advisory Council has created a working group to consider the introduction of drop lists for expired domains. The working group (DLIWG) will hold a roundtable to discuss the different implementation options being proposed by Nominet and invite your input:

Date: 2nd December
Time: 10:00 until 12:00
Format: Zoom

This is a great opportunity for you to have your say.

Register here:
https://r1.dotdigital-pages.com/p/4CYI-JL8/registration-form

 

[webber]

I encourage as many of you as possible to register, take part, and tell Nominet what you think.
Hopefully we will be allowed to publish the current proposal from Nominet ahead of the event so you have enough time to digest it and compile your thoughts.
Andrew Bennett (chair) and I are on the DLIWG as UKRAC representatives and we already had a meeting about this with Nominet tech team where we gave as much feedback as we could, both from personal experience (both of us taking part in dropcatching) and from discussions we had with other members.

 

[webber]

Here are the meeting minutes from the first UKRAC DLIWG where you will see the feedback from Andrew and me on Nominet's initial proposal:
https://members.nominet.uk/wp-conte...ementation-Working-Group-minutes-19.10.21.pdf

 

[Siusaidh]

To clarify in advance of any round table:

Will ordinary registrants and members of the public have easy viewable access to the droplists (and ideally a search function for individual names) so they can hand register as soon as the name drops if they want to (and it hasn't already been caught)?

And could a link and drop-date be added to the WHOIS so the precise time can be checked out by anybody?

General public do not usually look around the Nominet site, but quite a few 'get' the idea of the whois, so that seems the best place to have a direct link to the daily droplists, and not just via an intermediary (though details of dropcatchers could be added as an additional option).

My concern is convenience and clear info for the general public. I'm assuming that as there is a proposed 5-day Pending Delete period, at any one time there would be 5 droplists available for 5 the coming 5 days, or a single list covering all 5 forthcoming days.

I think these droplists should be viewable and accessible via a direct link from the WHOIS.

 

[ian]

Just a question, but if Andrew and Ciprian are both liasing with Nominet's technical team regarding the roll-out of a new proposal for drop-catching, should either of them still be invested in drop-catching for profit, personally? I'm sure this has been clarified, but with direct comms with the technical team, does that not pose risk of them gaining an advantage over all members?

 

[webber]

Our conflict of interest was declared as early as possible – first UKRAC meeting.
The meeting with Nominet's tech team was only in a formal setting with independent secretariat present taking meeting minutes as you can see above. The managing director of registry was always in attendance too.
I wish there was a direct communication with the tech team, but it's all done formally.
There were only two meetings so far, one short one early on to discuss the objectives, format and who should attend, and a second in which Nominet showed us their technical proposal to which Andrew and I gave feedback both from a personal perspective (both being active dropcatchers) but also ideas and suggestions we gathered from other members.
The third meeting is the DLIWG roundtable where anyone can attend on 2nd December.
Please do take the time to attend and get your suggestions and feedback to the Nominet team.

 

[ian]

Our conflict of interest was declared as early as possible – first UKRAC meeting.
The meeting with Nominet's tech team was only in a formal setting with independent secretariat present taking meeting minutes as you can see above. The managing director of registry was always in attendance too.
I wish there was a direct communication with the tech team, but it's all done formally.
There were only two meetings so far, one short one early on to discuss the objectives, format and who should attend, and a second in which Nominet showed us their technical proposal to which Andrew and I gave feedback both from a personal perspective (both being active dropcatchers) but also ideas and suggestions we gathered from other members.
The third meeting is the DLIWG roundtable where anyone can attend on 2nd December.
Please do take the time to attend and get your suggestions and feedback to the Nominet team.

Thanks for the response Ciprian. Not wishing to kick the hornets nest, but as the steer group, I wonder if this is a conflict of interest, so as you've said, I'll raise this at the next opportunity. Btw, not suggesting you shouldn't be able to operate in this space, but I know I don't have access to technical teams directly or indirectly, and imagine neither do the rest of the members.

 

[webber]

As a UKRAC member, I represent the wider membership, not myself, on all issues including this one.
I have had direct communications with quite a few of the bigger dropcatchers to get their views and suggestions to relay them to Nominet tech team at that second meeting.
However, as I am sure you can appreciate, I cannot reach out to all member nor could I perfectly relay everything that I was given. This is why it's not just Andrew or just myself in this group, to balance things out. There's the other UKRAC members that will get to have a vote on this proposals.
I've invited members to reach out to me directly or to have public debate about this issue before.

 

[Siusaidh]

I'm also still on UKRAC for as long as my health bears up (been a bit unwell lately). We have had discussions on the Drop List work at our meetings. Initially I understood that the work was solely about drop-lists, but at the meeting this week it was made clear that the drop-list work is just one stage in the implementation of expiring domains policy. The intention is to keep the drop-catching system, and other options for expired domains have been set aside.

As an individual member of UKRAC my vote is only one of 7 (the NED who is Chair also has a vote, which I don't agree with, but that's a different issue).

One thing that does concern me is to make sure non-drop-catchers are also represented in UKRAC discussions. I don't do drop-catching myself, and nor do most Nominet members.

I don't always feel that the non-drop-catcher's voice is sufficiently taken into account. I recognise that Nominet has chosen to continue with drop-catching, and I'll just have to use a 'catcher' I trust (you know who you are!), because I'll never get good names unless I do. Nevertheless, given that drop-catchers are participants in UKRAC, I think it's good in the interests of balance, that I try to raise the perspective of people who are not.

If any of you are in that category, and want to message me, I will be happy to voice/deliver your views to UKRAC meetings. It's important that all types of members are represented and heard. As Ciprian says, he represents the wider membership and not just himself, and I trust that. Nevertheless, we all tend to see things through the lens of our own situations, and so it's hopefully good that, like many Nominet members, we are not all drop-catchers on the Council.

 

[super-whois]

One thing that does concern me is to make sure non-drop-catchers are also represented in UKRAC discussions. I don't do drop-catching myself, and nor do most Nominet members.

I don't always feel that the non-drop-catcher's voice is sufficiently taken into account. I recognise that Nominet has chosen to continue with drop-catching, and I'll just have to use a 'catcher' I trust (you know who you are!), because I'll never get good names unless I do. Nevertheless, given that drop-catchers are participants in UKRAC, I think it's good in the interests of balance, that I try to raise the perspective of people who are not.

Weren't you elected to represent the secondary market? If so, why aren't you representing those views?

 

[Siusaidh]

I have a responsibility to represent all members, whether drop-catchers or non-drop-catchers. In a sense, not being a drop-catcher myself, I offer hopefully offer balance on the Council. The Terms for the election stated that the category Ciprian and I stood in was as follows:

"Two Nominet members from the secondary market (ie participate in .UK as a registrar solely to register domain names for themselves)"

I maybe sell 5% of domains I register (I decide I don't want the domain, or I think a sale will help me buy a better domain from someone else), but the other 95% are domains I register (and buy from dropcatchers or registrants) for my own development in due course in my retirement. I buy domains mainly because I want to use them.

Anyway, the reality is that is how Nominet defined the 'secondary market'.

Ciprian and I are on the Council because nobody else chose to stand for election in this category. I see it as important not to forget members who don't drop-catch. Between all of us on the Council, I think we try to bear in mind ALL members, not just some.

 

[webber]

Nominet has sent out the invitations for the roundtable and shared the slides in advance at our request:

Dear member,

Thank you for registering for the UKRAC Drop List Implementation Working Group Roundtable on 2nd December between 10:00 and 12:00 on Zoom. The agenda is as follows:

• 10:00 – 10:10: Welcome and Principles to Measure Success - Andrew/ Ciprian, UKRAC Drop List Implementation Working Group
• 10:10 – 10:40: Overview of the proposed implementation relating to dropping domains – Gordon Dick, Nominet
• 10:40 – 11:55: Member Q&A - all
• 11:55 – 12:00: Next steps and close – Andrew Bennett, UKRAC DLIWG

Whilst it is not necessary for you to look at anything in advance, we thought it may be helpful for you to have access to the slides before the event and we’ve made these available on the registration page.

We look forward to seeing you there.

The slides are on the Members Hub and you need to sign up to that, if you haven't already.
The Members Hub account/login will also give you access to the new Nominet Forum that will launch imminently, so it will be worthwhile.
But for your convenience here are the direct links:
https://members.nominet.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Drop-list-principles_.pdf
https://members.nominet.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Dropping-Domains-Slides-DLIWG.pdf

It's worth highlighting that this is Nominet's technical implementation proposal based on the two public consultations and later tweaked following some of the feedback from Andrew and me.

There were only two meetings so far, one short one early on to discuss the objectives, format and who should attend, and a second in which Nominet showed us their technical proposal to which Andrew and I gave feedback both from a personal perspective (both being active dropcatchers) but also ideas and suggestions we gathered from other members.

Please take the time to participate. If you're camera shy you can submit your feedback to the proposal in writing after the event.
The introduction of droplists could have a profound impact on the dropcatching market so make your voice heard now, not after the fact.

Thanks

 

[ukbackorder]

The sooner they change the better. Then at least we can all know the drop times and any cheating will be shifted to multitagging.

 

[webber]

Thanks to all who took part in today’s DLIWG round table on Zoom.
Based on previous consultations and discussions with other members I think everyone wants to see droplists implemented as soon as reasonably possible and that this is probably one of the least controversial policy change at Nominet.
I hope those that couldn’t attend today will submit their feedback in writing at [email protected] in the next few days for the DLIWG/Nominet to review.